Inf, Fobs and Supply need Cover

[BGratz]

I tested the actual Version now over 150 Hours.
Most time i play Infantry, but really i started 1,5 Years ago to play PR and Infantry anoyes more and more.

Infantrie has 3 very importent things they need.
Supply, Cover and Fobs.

Lets take an example.

Muttra City as US.

Your team build a Fob at the Docks with all Possible Defensives
Your Team Build a FOB at north City with all Possible Defensives
Your Team Build a FOB at West City only with HMG?s.
The Helos Fly 2 Crates to all of that Fobs.
The Support Truck Drives 10 Crates to the Dock Fob with the Mortars.
This are nearly 120 Minutes of Work.


Build a Fob with 1 Mortar: This need 5-10 Minutes. (inclusive Drop of Support Crates)
And fire without spotter
3 Shoots on Repair Station (Truck Destroyed if is there)
3 Shoots at Green Hall at docks
3 Shoots at Containers North of flag
3 Shoots North of Flag Hall
3 Shoots South of Flag Hall
3 Shoots North City TriangleBuildings
3 Shoots Corner Buildings
3 Shoots Pool
3 Shoots Hotel Parking
3 Shoots Death end Road
3 Shoots between the Houses at Main Street
and some round (around 11) on the Gardens
44 Rounds
This need (Tested) 22 Minutes.

(with UAV you need only 10-15 Minutes to Destroy all Fobs pointedly)

Now let us see
US 120 Minutes Work, no kills in that time but 1-3 Deaths by Positioning of the FOB?s and Wires. No FOB exists on Land so all have to go in per BOAT and Helos. Truck is Destroyed and they can only Pray that MEC has no AA up.

MEC 32 Minutes Work, 0-15 Kills.

Why the Hell it is so Eays to Destroy Fob assets with Mortars ?
Why the Hell they Destroy all Supply Crates in a felt Radius of 100 Meters (thing real is 30-50)


How the hell do you thing that this can make fun ?
PR is actual a Shovel, Waiting, und Jogging Simulator.

In Reality you will Cover and Hide your Fobs.
In Reality you will not Fight all time at the same 4x4 Kilometers so that everybody knows where the good places are.
In Reality the enemy would not know by the first View if he looks on a AA or a Foxhole
In Reality a Foxhole would not be Destroyed by a Mortar impact 10 Meters ago. (The Soldier yes , the FOB .... i dont believe.)
In Reality you would not Place your Ammo and Kits in a Box on a Street Crossing, you would cover them in a Basement or a Room in a House.
In Reality you would not Build a Fob in a City so That everybody can see him from 1000 Meters ago. You would place the radio and other stuff in a Room.
In Reality you would place over your Foxhole a cover (blanket) to make it for the Snipers Harder.
In Reality you would have Anti Tank Weapons at a FOB (means not the TOW, means a KIT)
In Reality you would never have the Problem that your Apc?s drive at the *** of the world to Hunt Tank, you would have them to help you.
In Reality you would not have mens with a HAT who cant use them Correctly.

What i mean is simple, please be a bit gentle in the next patch to the Infantrie.
The Commander Rally i couldnt use the Last 4 Rounds i make Commander because i never get enough Men to my Position, or the enemy was to near. Sure you can say "Hey you are Commander give the Order" but really i am Happy enough when my Solders Speak the Same Language.

Its ok that it needs work to Build Fob?s, but make them hideable and Stronger against Random Explosives.

That Support Boxes should be good placed by the dropper is surly their mistake, but Really its hard to place Support so that it could be taken when it is nessessary. And the Crates most time gone because of Mortar Fire.

by the way:
You make a Good job, i love this mod and i will stay as a Fan, but will i play it ? Really , if you punish the Infantrie more, i dont know. So please keep in mind that infantrie is the Backbone of PR and Finally the way to win should be by beeing Smarter and make more Kills and take more Flags. Not by anoying the 32 Other players by destroy their SPawnpoints and let them Wait, Shovel and Jogging to Front.

[CallousDisregard]

In reality you are using weapons and equipment made by the lowest bidder.

[Ford_Jam]

You should join the Army, I heard they're pretty down on the reality side of gameplay.

[Pvt.LHeureux]

Ha ok you're the same guy that made that huge topic on building FOBs lol

[Shovel]

In Reality you will not Fight all time at the same 4x4 Kilometers so that everybody knows where the good places are.
In Reality you would never have the Problem that your Apc?s drive at the *** of the world to Hunt Tank, you would have them to help you.
In Reality you would not have mens with a HAT who cant use them Correctly.

Dude, if you're going to whine about how sometimes these rounds can end up being unrealistic, just GTFO. There is no way that the DEVs can make sure that everyone always plays fairly and doesn't noob it up with APCs and HATs and so on.


Also, you can't complain that we always play over the same 4x4 km, because THATS THE GAME! We can't have infinite landscapes and have different looking FOBs every time, because that is impractical. This is still a game, not RL.

[Psyko]

i got a different view of this topic

i will agree with the OP. the emplacements, particularly the foxholes should be built to last. right now they are just big road ramps, a skinny irritation that tanks and APCs can easily destroy. i think it should take around 2 armour piercing sabots from a tank to destroy the foxholes.
(reason being, the lower to the ground an object is, the sturdier it is. a tank would make shit of a HMG nest because its made of a few lumps of timber and clay (well the hmg in game anyway)...

but the foxhole in game is supposed to represent a hole dug below ground. its too 2 dimentional, it protects people from mortar and arty splash damage but an APC can just bump into it and destry it. it makes no sense.

on the other hand im against bombarding the landscape with mortars. most people soiled their shreddies when they seen its implimentation but after a couple of matches of it i started realising how much of a vanilla weapon the mortar is right now. the rounds are too strong, aside from that its nice. it promotes teamwork and you gotta do ammo runs, but if your gonna do that, you better put in a third logistics truck, you need two trucks for a couple of FOBs and a third for the mortars, especially for a map like barracude where the chinese need to do ammo runs frequently.
its a nice object, and the aiming tool is cool, but its overpowered imo. and while presiting the map on coop is an interesting idea, the weapon is more about support and from what i've seen so far its not a very satisfying piece of kit becuase the pubbies dont let you know if its good effect on target. they mark a target, then you have to guess what it is and you fire off a few rounds and nobody gets back to you on it.
thats just frustrating.

so my look on this is, increase the hitpoints for some of the emplacements and lower the strength on the mortar rounds. make the HMG an important piece of kit that is worth while manning. thats your problem right there.

[Arc_Shielder]

I have to agree this in a way.

The creation of mortars decreased the importance of building a good firebase. I've seen many SLs giving up on building foxholes, HMGs and even TOWs because they know that those assets will be destroyed by mortars. Especially when on maps that everything is plain and out in the open.
The hitpoints should increased for those.

[Kain888]

I have to agree this in a way.

The creation of mortars decreased the importance of building a good firebase. I've seen many SLs giving up on building foxholes, HMGs and even TOWs because they know that those assets will be destroyed by mortars. Especially when on maps that everything is plain and out in the open.
The hitpoints should increased for those.

True. Mortars also compromise CnC mode a bit. Would like to see some solution to this to be honest. I would be nice to have some protection against mortars for firebases, would make them even more valuable.

[kerpus909090]

hmm my 2 cents is that fob's and hideouts need to be built on a timer after being deployed cause i can't get anyone to shovel them...

It would be fun to defend a fob i think rather than shovel it for 2 minutes.

it would ease the frustration level i believe...

I say this here because i can't post in the suggestion forum yet and i am i would say knowledgefull about exactly where to place hideout on insurgent maps its just i can't get people to help me bld no one wants to anymore.

But PR is free so i am still happy, and will still play i would just like to gameplay to evolve more.

[drtaru]

Tip, find a server that requires teamwork, TacticalGamer comes to mind, FOBS are constantly being built on every round, so dont tell me no one builds anymore.

[Bonsai]

IIRC the sneaky lonewolf with his one-stab-fob-killer-knife has taken out more FOBs than mortars in the last couple of weeks I`ve been playing.

As players need to learn that staying put on an objective/flag will make you loose with the new 0.95 tools and ticket system - they will need to learn that placing FOBs 10 meters aside the flag in the place everybody does it since the freakin` release of the map is like putting a big red "SHOOT HERE!" sign above it.

The mod has made a step into the right direction with the current changes. Teamplay and thinking about where to deploy troops, where to deploy supplies, where to have backup spawn places actually matters now. Same goes for where and from where to attack.

Until 0.95 it was like - place a FOB somewhere close to where you want to attack/defend - spawn - rush in - kill as much as you can - rinse and repeat.

Now you better have a plan and a backup - and the rest of the team assisting you...

But I agree completely on changing the look and even the size of the FOBs. I encourage the idea of having different statics as well (discussion somewhere about using bunkers that need more time/crates and smaller - easier to build statics). And you`re also right about the crates. Especially as they light up on thermals. Might need some "love" in the next patch.

My 2 cents.

[=]H[=[Amish]Kommando]

Cowboy up and attack the city?

[BenHamish]

That's a nice idea - A FOB that builds itself as long as a squad is within [50m?] of it.

[SGT.Ice]

Well boys and girls last I checked this was about infantry feedback not FOBs. Though. the standing by a FOB part takes away from doing something as well as working together. Increasing the beating the FOBs can take and possibly being able to just put the radio and such inside a building without the dirt would be kind of nice.

[BenHamish]

To be honest, some people spend ages and ages building mini-fortresses for their FOB, and I think it's all very un-necessary. Static defences are pretty useless against a co-ordinated enemy, and more than anything make the FOB very obvious.

I'm more of the 'build a secret fob in an alley/ garden and then move on to cap' sort of bloke. That said though, I find it hard to get the ideal of aggression into a squad.. People like to sit back and snipe [defend] (which is fine).

[Bufl4x]

Or you can do both. Build one hidden FOB to spawn on, and another on the other side of the flag to deploy assets.
Most of the time there are two flags in play, one to attack and one to defend. So you can have three offensive and three defensive FOBs. The more the better.

[Stoickk]

Have an "Urban Fob" deployable asset. It would be invaluable in urban maps. The static could be just the box with the radio on it from the standard fob static. This fob could be placed inside buildings or rooms, and with the smaller footprint, and the ability to be placed inside rooms for overhead/all around cover, would increase its survivability and stealth dramatically.

[Bad&Mad]

You should join the Army, I heard they're pretty down on the reality side of game-play.

Wanted to write down the same, after reading this topic.
Seems like topic starter forgot, that he's playing a GAME, not the "high-end special operation training simulator for tough guys with the nuts".
And as for me, I haven't seen more realistic and mature game about modern battlefield, as PR.

[Stiller_001]

Wasn't there something like the radio's being made for placement inside buildings and acting like a FOB...? I don't know but i swear i have seen something ages ago.

EDIT: arr here we are - https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f264-public-testing-feedback-forums/69780-two-different-looking-outposts-5.html

[ViciousAxel]

I think that alot of these problems will have to remain unsolved in PR:BF2 because of the engine and map limitations, not to mention the less than effective BF2 integrated VOIP system which limits teamwork a great deal. Hopefully the devs will get around to fixing these in PR:A2. I think PR has the right idea, but its limited by said engine and also the players that OP mentioned who have no notion of how to use the assets or work as a team. Maybe someone will make some sort of single player tutorial level for PR which will allow the newer players to learn about the infantry assets and some basic tactics without having to read and memorize a manual.