Removal of helicopter carried Anti-Air missiles

[chrisweb89]

This suggestion may not be completely realistic but in my opinion will help quite a lot with gameplay and attack chopper combat. By removing the AA missles it will mean that there is now more skill than ever involved in fighting off another chopper and winning, or running. With the current system of anti-air missle armed attack choppers the fight most of the time ends after a few seconds and 2 quickly fired aa missles flying through the air. It offers no chance for the chopper being attacked to run to friendlies or fight back because the chances of surving those missles are very low and its not hard at all to fly around get lock and shoot.

If the missles were removed, the basics of of air to air fighting would still be true and the aircraft in the better position would still have the advantage. Height would be an even greater advantage, with speed you could run or distract long enough to have a fighting chance and there would be required skill and communication between the pilot and gunner that rarely happens now because of the effectiveness of AA missles.

This suggestion would require more skill and I think a lot funner from the ground and air perspective. Whats more fun to watch or be part of? Two choppers fighting all over the sky with hydras and guns going everywhere and the choppers running to their ground troops for help, or the first chopper to spot the other firing 2 missles and the fight is done.

Thoughts?

[Mongolian_dude]

This suggestion may not be completely realistic but in my opinion will help quite a lot with gameplay and attack chopper combat. By removing the AA missles it will mean that there is now more skill than ever involved in fighting off another chopper and winning, or running. With the current system of anti-air missle armed attack choppers the fight most of the time ends after a few seconds and 2 quickly fired aa missles flying through the air. It offers no chance for the chopper being attacked to run to friendlies or fight back because the chances of surving those missles are very low and its not hard at all to fly around get lock and shoot.

If the missles were removed, the basics of of air to air fighting would still be true and the aircraft in the better position would still have the advantage. Height would be an even greater advantage, with speed you could run or distract long enough to have a fighting chance and there would be required skill and communication between the pilot and gunner that rarely happens now because of the effectiveness of AA missles.

This suggestion would require more skill and I think a lot funner from the ground and air perspective. Whats more fun to watch or be part of? Two choppers fighting all over the sky with hydras and guns going everywhere and the choppers running to their ground troops for help, or the first chopper to spot the other firing 2 missles and the fight is done.

Thoughts?

I'm sceptical.

I will say that Heli-Heli combat is one of the most unpredictable and anti-climactic aspects of the PR battlefield. However, such engagements I would feel are more realistic than the age-old "whirlwind-duel" that ensues between two under-equipped attack helicopters, which seems rather unskilled and desperate in itself.



...mongol...

[maverick551]

I fully support this suggestion. I would think that by removing the anti-air missiles, pilots would be more inclined to focus on targeting hostiles on the ground, rather than having to fly at ridiculously high altitudes to counter the threat from other attack helicopters. In addition, I would think Anti-Air vehicles would be used more frequently on maps with attack helicopters, which I think would also be a positive outcome if missiles were to be removed. May be something worth a try? Just my opinion

[mat552]

The only thing that could possibly go wrong here is that helicopter pilots no longer have any viable excuse to hang out on the far corners of the map hunting for each other instead of supporting the infantry on the ground.

They could probably even be re-added in a hotfix if the results have unforeseen consequences.

[Zoddom]

i see that its getting clear to some people that we HAVE to do something about those CAS battles.
i fully agree with you OP, as it is now, it just sucks.
@mat552:
youre right, i get the feeling that most of our "skilled pilots" like heli hunting more then CAS, and if thats true, then theyre the wrong guys for that role and have to be sorted out. this suggestion (or something equally) would be one method to achieve this.

[Spuz36]

Like this suggestion. It would definitely make heli crews more responsive to CAS. Have noticed a sharp increase in "Waiting until enemy choppers down" before helping out ground units under fire that instant. Its a tragedy they are scared or threatened that much to make a quick run to help advancing units. Afraid to lose their 15 or 20min respawn ride, they will probably waste more time idling in high altitude than actually making CAS runs.

While it may create these waffle fights in mid-air, it may inspire team mates to make AA traps like spike strips or barricades. Usually try to do this now nonetheless.

[Psyko]

more likely, the choppers wouldnt engage each other so often. and they would allow each other to nuke targets.

[Teek]

I think we are just going to go back to vanilla heli dogfights with guns and hellfires, with some hydras trown in. Helicopters may still camp up high tring to snipe the other chopper with a hellfire. You cant make choppers more focused on CAS if they have a rival. If you nerfed the Air to Air missles so that a hit heli could limp back home then the crews might be more willing to do strike runs without having to be so paranoid about seeing the spawn screen.

To achive this Air to air missles should probably have a shorter lock range, and one only missle can be fired per lock. After getting hit by one missle a heli can pull out of range before the second lock and repair.

[Zrix]

I've always thought that heli vs heli combat is silly and feels awkward, both in vanilla with TV-guided missiles and in PR with AA missiles. This is actually the main reason I stopped flying CAS, it just took away the fun(even if you win the dogfights).

What I would like the most is to only give CAS to one of the teams on each map, just to allow the crew to focus on engaging ground targets and not having to worry about the enemy chopper. This could be compensated with some more AA for the other team and/or some extra land vehicles perhaps, depending on the map.

[Grizzly]

Well while your at it go ahead and take bullets away from everyone... since were suppose to be capping points or finding caches. The real world isn't fair so lets not use it in game is not a valid point in Project Reality. Sacrifices have to be made for gameplay but taking out a completely legitimate asset is kinda absurd.

[lukeyu2005]

Has there been any gunship vs gunship battles in real life before?

[Bufl4x]

How often do real life heli vs. heli battles occur? Almost never would be a good guess, so i agree with this suggestion.
It's already unrealistic to have attack choppers fight against each other, so might as well make it fun instead of being random like it is now.

[Grizzly]

I'll just leave this here.
Lost redirect

[samogon100500]

Support this idea due
1)not every choppers can be have extra pylons for AA weapon.
2)Cannon firefight would be epic

[Reddeath]

There hasn't been enough modern day conventional war to claim that gunship vs gunship would not happen.

[lukeyu2005]

The source certainly states that the modern day attack chopper is geared up for a gunship vs gunship battle.

Who knows maybe when there is finally another war. Project reality players would have seen it coming. When Hinds sweep down from out of the sun while the Apache's do their nap of the earth tank killing formations.

[Brainlaag]

2)Cannon firefight would be epic

Vanilla much?

I would agree with the idea, but I'm not willing to sacrifice a well optimized an working system, just because it gets sometimes nerved out. Otherwise I would suggest the removal of TOWs aswell, because its just annoying how often you get killed by these buggers.

[PatrickLA_CA]

1 attack heli on each side will fix the problem, 2 of them makes the CAS sq worry about the other team's CAS and stays high up untill they shoot down the 2nd chopper too but for that time the 1st spawns and here they go again.

[Cp]

The only gunship in PR that can carry air-to-air missiles on the wingtips is the ah-1 cobra, the rest carry their air-to-air missiles on the stub wing pylons, meaning you'd replace either the ATGMs or the rocket pods with air-to-air missiles. theres one exception though, the US army Ah-64D longbow cant carry air-to-air missiles at all, its little friend the Kiowa does it for it.

The only air-to-air combat that I know of between gunships was during the Iraq-Iran war where hinds and cobras engaged each other with anti tank missiles and guns.

[spawncaptain]

theres one exception though, the Ah-64D longbow cant carry air-to-air missiles at all