Dust when mortar fire?

[blues&royalsdylan]

I'm sure it has been considered or even suggested before, but anyway, here's another thread.

BTW, I frickin' love the mortars, one of the best new bits of 0.975. However, I wish there was dust, because I feel listening to them isn't enough to try and locate them. Perhaps, adding dust would make the squad using the mortars think about location more, and then would need a perimeter with a couple of guys keeping eyes on watch for enemy?

[Rhino]

Good suggestion, this was something we where planning to do but must have been forgotten about, shouldn't be very hard to do either

[blues&royalsdylan]

Oh excellent, I was very impressed with the mortar system. At first, I was a bit, blurgh, could be a disaster.

Went onto co-op to try it out, whilst at first it was complicated, it became very clear and really fun to use. Awesome addition, have many stories to tell about the mortar Which I'll write up in the tales section.

[anglomanii]

sorry but i am not too sure, is this about outgoing rounds or incoming?
for incoming, sure needs loads more dust. they really kick up the dirt.
out going, i dont remember seeing too much in the way of dust coming up from firing 81's from prepared positions. (this was way back in 96' at a ADF range) i couldn't say what it would be like from firing from a open position but from a bomb pit, no only a little smoke out of the tube.

[blues&royalsdylan]

Out going rounds, sir. I don't mean masses amount, but something - because it could potentially mean they're going to consider using more men for guarding the position. It'd also mean if on an insurgency map, there's a mortar crew, the insurgents/taliban can locate and destroy it. But using sounds, intelligence and looking out for smoke/dust from the positions.

Also, in deserts and stuff it could be more handy for scouting them out - there's a fair amount of dust in this video = http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNgnUz9K ... re=related

[Rhino]

I hate using youtube vids as refs but you do see dust being kicked up quite a bit from the vids.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-VKRWOkgzU

[anglomanii]

yeah i see what your talking about now, i was thinking you meant a lot more dust then what you've shown. if i could add that you do get maybe upto a 3 meter plume of white smoke come out of the tube after firing but it is only a brief report of the shot. sorry but i was only referencing my own experience, i was thinking of the tubes being bedded down in prepared positions like they are in game. not in open ground. sorry my mistake.

[saXoni]

I really like this idea!

[ShockUnitBlack]

Rhino;1521354']I hate using youtube vids as refs but you do see dust being kicked up quite a bit from the vids.



YouTube - 3 para afghanistan, mortars

Why do you hate referencing YouTube?

Anyway, good suggestion.

[Ninja2dan]

Why do you hate referencing YouTube?

Anyway, good suggestion.

I'm guessing it's because YouTube is comprised of videos/clips posted by anyone, without any need to verify authenticity or factual basis. It's possible that any video on Youtube has been edited and re-edited, and then edited some more. It's like Wikipedia, only in audio/video.

With that being said, Youtube and Wiki aren't 100% lame. There are sometimes some honest, factual items posted that do provide decent reference. But the ratio of good:bad is so pathetic, that finding an honest-to-goodness worthy reference is a rare thing.



Unfortunately, I haven't seen mortars in-game yet, so I can't comment on how badly they need adjusted. But if Rhino says it's a good suggestion, I'm sure it'll make its way in sooner or later.

[blues&royalsdylan]

yeah i see what your talking about now, i was thinking you meant a lot more dust then what you've shown. if i could add that you do get maybe upto a 3 meter plume of white smoke come out of the tube after firing but it is only a brief report of the shot. sorry but i was only referencing my own experience, i was thinking of the tubes being bedded down in prepared positions like they are in game. not in open ground. sorry my mistake.

I suppose the ones in game are bedded down, however, I do like the idea of smoke plumes. I think either one would help the fire support group consider where they position themselves, who's on watch and where will their supply run from and to.

Whilst that, teams searching for the mortars can listen out, then try to locate using the obvious signs of mortar (smoke plumes, and dust rising). Maybe this would mean people would use sniper teams properly to scout them out, call in coordinates of their position and mortar the enemy.

All just ideas, which should be expanded on

[Tarranauha200]

Little dust would be nice idea. Would make it look better and maybe help locating.
Would be nice to fire at same firerate as they do in video.

[Bringerof_D]

how about a single 3 by 0.5 by 0.5 meter plume that shoots out from the top of the tube which then floats off in some direction slowly for 100 meters in which time it has been slowly fading away. It could add to the atmosphere so that it's a little less lifeless and feels like theres a light breeze, and assuming we keep the particle effects low it shouldn't effect performance at all.

of course the dust kicked up from around the guns will be stationary since, in most videos it seems to settle pretty quick. And of course to save on performance i think it could be done without any particles effects. What if it triggered a suppression effect to anyone within 10 meters of the tube, however changing the suppression effect's gray to a light brown and having it only cover the lower half of the screen.

[Ninja2dan]

The amount of "dust or debris" kicked up from firing a mortar or howitzer will vary depending on the surface which it is deployed, environmental/weather factors such as wet or dry soil, and the type of weapon being used.

I've been around both mortars and howitzers (towed and SP) that have fired in just about every type of condition and terrain available, from the sandy beaches of Camp Rilea, the clay soil of Fort Sill, the flats of White Sands Missile Range, the jungles of Thailand, and the snowy mountains of Fort Carson. And in all weather from droughts to rain and mud to snow and ice. And just about every time, the amount of kick-up has been different. Sometimes even varying drastically between shots.


Knowing this fact, what concerns me a little is that adding additional dust effects is going to require varied effects based on the terrain where the mortar is placed. Since we have maps taking place in a huge variety of terrain, with maps using all sorts of different color palettes and texture types, how much work is that going to require? It would look odd as hell for a mortar emplaced in the snow to be kicking up brown dirt or sand.


As you can see in the video below (again, sorry for using Youtube but it serves the purpose) that there is basically zero ground dust kicked up, but there is a small amount of residual firing smoke. Based on their attire I'm guessing the temp is a little cold, which is why the hotter smoke/gas from firing will be more visible and linger longer than your "average" day. And this is a 120mm mortar instead of the 81mm, which produces a bit more "boom" during firing yet we see almost no debris kick-up.




Also, the video that Rhino linked shows the mortar team firing from an open un-prepared position. This means the soil where the mortar is set up wasn't prepped or compacted at all, which will mean a lot more surface dust/dirt/sand to be kicked up during firing.

But PR uses prepared positions, which would have been compacted down during the set-up phase but also heavily traveled within the confined area. All of that boot-stomping and compression from people walking over the limited area around the mortar is going to compact the surface so much that there is going to be a lot less residual dust/dirt that is free to be kicked up during firing.


I'm not saying it's a bad suggestion, I'm just saying that if something is added it will need to be done in a manner that looks good regardless of which map the mortars are used on, and where on those maps the mortar is deployed. With such a variety in maps, that might mean a huge amount of work.

[blues&royalsdylan]

Ninja2dan;1522161']The amount of "dust or debris" kicked up from firing a mortar or howitzer will vary depending on the surface which it is deployed, environmental/weather factors such as wet or dry soil, and the type of weapon being used.

I've been around both mortars and howitzers (towed and SP) that have fired in just about every type of condition and terrain available, from the sandy beaches of Camp Rilea, the clay soil of Fort Sill, the flats of White Sands Missile Range, the jungles of Thailand, and the snowy mountains of Fort Carson. And in all weather from droughts to rain and mud to snow and ice. And just about every time, the amount of kick-up has been different. Sometimes even varying drastically between shots.


Knowing this fact, what concerns me a little is that adding additional dust effects is going to require varied effects based on the terrain where the mortar is placed. Since we have maps taking place in a huge variety of terrain, with maps using all sorts of different color palettes and texture types, how much work is that going to require? It would look odd as hell for a mortar emplaced in the snow to be kicking up brown dirt or sand.


As you can see in the video below (again, sorry for using Youtube but it serves the purpose) that there is basically zero ground dust kicked up, but there is a small amount of residual firing smoke. Based on their attire I'm guessing the temp is a little cold, which is why the hotter smoke/gas from firing will be more visible and linger longer than your "average" day. And this is a 120mm mortar instead of the 81mm, which produces a bit more "boom" during firing yet we see almost no debris kick-up.




Also, the video that Rhino linked shows the mortar team firing from an open un-prepared position. This means the soil where the mortar is set up wasn't prepped or compacted at all, which will mean a lot more surface dust/dirt/sand to be kicked up during firing.

But PR uses prepared positions, which would have been compacted down during the set-up phase but also heavily traveled within the confined area. All of that boot-stomping and compression from people walking over the limited area around the mortar is going to compact the surface so much that there is going to be a lot less residual dust/dirt that is free to be kicked up during firing.


I'm not saying it's a bad suggestion, I'm just saying that if something is added it will need to be done in a manner that looks good regardless of which map the mortars are used on, and where on those maps the mortar is deployed. With such a variety in maps, that might mean a huge amount of work.

Hmm, the suggestion of a smoke plume seems to be favoured than dust it self, and I agree with the smoke suggestion. Your input is helpful though