Is this really how things are going ?

[sector7g]

I had the miss fortune to be once again kicked from a server because I chose not to install mumble when given the choice. I will say it again: I have no problem with others wishing to "improve their audio gaming experience" - I wish them the best of luck with it but I represent a growing number of "Non mumble users" who have, for what ever reason (tin foil hats included chosen not to install mumble.

In light of this and with regard to the mumble server "kick" rule that I and many others have been affronted with I have been asked to present the community with the following questions:

1) What if I find that mumble affects my gaming band width or worse still crashes my computer out all-together thus affecting my ability to play ? does that mean that we should be excluded from the rest of PR. (please do not suggest computer up-grades as not all of us can afford them.)

2) What if I can not stand the general cacophony and lack of radio discipline that unfortunately occurs ? (please do not suggest muting ourselves in mumble because there is just no point in running it at all if that is the case.)

3) What if I do not speak English and find the whole mumble thing too daunting a task to deal with ? Much less find that people only speak English on mumble a language that not all of us are familiar with.

4) Put the shoe on the other foot: How would the PR community feel about other servers ruthlessly enforcing TS2/3 rules and kicking any one who is not on TS2/3. Do you think that this sort of thing would really benefit the community ?

I guess my question to the community is that in light of the fact that server numbers and PR players seem to be declining do we really want to divide the community into mumble and non mumble users/servers at a time when it would seem to me that we need to stand united as a community rather than be broken down and split over something so small as a comms device ?

I re-iterate on behalf of my self as well as those that I represent: We have no problem with gamers wishing to improve their gaming experience it's just that quite a few of us do not wish to partake. We are all ecstatic about the rest of the mod and the community, we are simply interested in adding another 3rd party comms device to an already complex arrangement of comms devices. (Believe it or not but some Clans and gamers actually have there SXXT together with out the aid of mumble, furthermore some of us clans are perfectly happy working with the comms systems that we already have in place.)

Please do not suggest that there are enough servers for us to be able to have mumble exclusive servers because I do not see how that is useful when we see less and less servers that have a decent amount of players in them. - And yes I play almost every night and can tell you first hand that numbers are on the decline something that saddens me deeply.

This is not a "Troll Thred" as I have previously been wrongly accused of. It is some simple questions posed, asked by some of the people that have supported and continue to support this community for a very long time now. It is not meant as an affront to mumble devs or users. We understand that many of you like it and see the benefits we just want to see a healthy community that accepts and tolerates mumble and non mumble users alike. God forbid that we should descend to the depths of me kicking mumble users from my squad because their comms system is likley to give my position away not to mention vital info to the enemy because you received no prior military "Radio Discipline" training - seeing as you are a gamer. Or that you should kick me because I do not own and can not afford a sound card that keeps up with VOIP, TS3, mumble and PR at the same time...

Please keep it civil I know that there will be many of you mumblers that will be frothing at the mouth before you have even finished reading this I only ask that you be polite and constructive. Calling me "Frenchie" or "Tin Foil hat freak" will not sort the situation out nor help even if it does make you feel superior for an hour or two...

Peace and love to mumblers and non-mumblers.

[Johncro]

Didn't read most of it because, this.

If you want to play on a mumble running server expect to be kick because you don't use mumble. Unfortunate as it is, mumble users deserve to have the spot your taking when you don't use mumble. Server rules are server rules.

[sector7g]

Please finish reading my comment before jumping to answers. Though I do appreciate your point of reserving slots for mumble users, if you finish reading you might have a different opinion. Your input is however appreciated

[ledo1222]

Didn't read most of it because, this.

If you want to play on a mumble running server expect to be kick because you don't use mumble. Unfortunate as it is, mumble users deserve to have the spot your taking when you don't use mumble. Server rules are server rules.

Thanks 4 the heads up

don't like reading.

[Pirate]

There's what, one server that kicks non-mumblers when the server is full?

[Rhino]

Please finish reading my comment before jumping to answers. Though I do appreciate your point of reserving slots for mumble users, if you finish reading you might have a different opinion. Your input is however appreciated

I, like Johncro have came to the same conclusion after reading a few lines of your post and I'm really not going to read any more so if there is another point, please sum it up in a few lines as I really don't want to have to read all of that just to find out the point of what looks to be a rant.

How ever if this is just a rant on being kicked by mumble servers, if a server admin chooses to put in the forum rules that his server is a mumble server and as such, non-mumble players will get kicked, you should respect that rule and play on one of the many other servers that do not have any mumble rules attached to them, or install mumble.

[Smegburt_funkledink]

There's what, one server that kicks non-mumblers when the server is full?

Yeah.

This is not 'really how things are going' as it's well established that not everyone uses or wants to use mumble. If you're going to play on the PRTA server, expect to be on a server that is filled with Mumble users. For every 1 player that isn't using mumble out of the majority at PRTA that do, their Mumble experience declines so I am fully in favour of this rule.

If you don't like the Mumble rule, use Mumble. If you don't want to use Mumble, play elsewhere. Simples.

Please do not suggest that there are enough servers for us to be able to have mumble exclusive servers because I do not see how that is useful when we see less and less servers that have a decent amount of players in them. - And yes I play almost every night and can tell you first hand that numbers are on the decline something that saddens me deeply.

The fact is that there's plenty of servers. The number of servers fluctuates a lot but I've never seen a lack of choices of servers to join.

[Jigsaw]

I did read your whole post, here's my take.

There is one, just one, server that kicks for mumble currently; PRTA. At PRTA we operate a strict policy on mumble because we feel that it enhances gameplay and teamwork greatly.

You seem to have the impression that mumble is a comms program so clans can get their shit together. This is incorrect. Mumble is better described as an application which allows intra-squad and team-wide teamwork through the simple process of everyone being in a central location.

There is very little in the way of spam or chatter (except between rounds) by the simple expedient of only people within ~50m being able to hear you, so that argument falls flat on it's face straight away.

If you find that mumble taxes your system or bandwidth so much that you cannot play, I quite frankly pity you. How you manage to even play PR (let alone run PR and TS3 as you imply you do in your post) is beyond me. If you are having problems running it then I suggest you post in the PR:BF2 Support section of the forums.

Having a mumble only server works, we've shown that in the past with Reality Teamwork, and currently with PRTA. If you do not want to use mumble, then my advice simply is don't play there. There are plenty of others available, in fact it is past midnight UK time (so far from peak time) and there are still five servers with 50+ players on them.

I guess my question to the community is that in light of the fact that server numbers and PR players seem to be declining

This is not true, quite the opposite actually.



I'm going to leave the thread open, despite it being something of a rant about being kicked which would normally be locked. I hope we can change your mind by discussing the matter in a civil manner however if this goes downhill (as I suspect it might) then it will be closed.

[cyberzomby]

I've read your post as well. I can see why it sucks if you crash because of mumble. Although jigsaw has a point about running PR at all with a machine like that.

I cant really find myself in agreement with your 4th argument:

4) Put the shoe on the other foot: How would the PR community feel about other servers ruthlessly enforcing TS2/3 rules and kicking any one who is not on TS2/3. Do you think that this sort of thing would really benefit the community ?

Joining a TS2/3 server is much harder than joining the right mumble channel. For TS I need to remember an IP and possibly even a password. For Mumble its opening up the program, joining the PR server (wich is already in there) and finding the room. Dont think you should compare those 2.

And like said: There are enough servers out there that welcome non mumblers and mumblers alike

[Web_cole]

I was gonna post wall of text but then Jigsaw said everything I was gonna say better than I was gonna say it. Sad face.





One thing: speaking from the pov of PRTA we want to ensure the highest level of Teamwork possible, and good teamwork needs good communication. Which unfortunately means we need to enforce a common language, with that language fairly predictably being English. Tbh its not something I like at all, but it is in my view a more than necessary evil.

[Burton]

It's a valid point you make about perhaps having limited bandwidth and things like mumble affecting/hogging this, or simply not wanting to install something additional - But in the same breath, it has to be said that you decided to join the server with "Mumble" in the name, you knew that perhaps you might be kicked. Besides, as others have said, server rules is server rules. There's PLENTY of servers which don't require the players to be on mumble, join one of these instead in future.

Complaining that you got kicked for not having mumble on a mumble server because you don't want to install mumble...

That's like driving into the congestion charge zone without paying only to complain that you got a fine through the post a few days later.
You knew that you needed to pay to enter that zone, and you knew what would happen if you didn't. Drive around that zone next time.. or even better download mumble...

[vishuddaxxx]

1) What if I find that mumble affects my gaming band width or worse still crashes my computer out all-together thus affecting my ability to play ? does that mean that we should be excluded from the rest of PR. (please do not suggest computer up-grades as not all of us can afford them.)

I think it has been proven that mumble hardly uses any bandwidth at all, well not enough to effect gameplay, maybe on some odd extremely unlikely scenario... as far as I know only 1 or maybe 2 servers enforce mumble.. most do not... so I think you are exaggerating greatly when you say rest of PR.



2) What if I can not stand the general cacophony and lack of radio discipline that unfortunately occurs ? (please do not suggest muting ourselves in mumble because there is just no point in running it at all if that is the case.)


from the mumble servers that i play in, PRTA, there is lots of discipline, I think you are undermining the PR community by insinuating they are all a bunch of loud, cacphonying trumps.. .. also I do agree that when a game ends and players can talk irrelevant things.. but i find that gels the community even more, dude chill out and get a sense of humour... make friends with people, you will be surprised by how many nice people are out there.. perhaps you have had 1 or 2 bad experinces, I have met some idiots on mumble that get all agressive and shout and swear but in gerneral most are pretty normal bunch..




3) What if I do not speak English and find the whole mumble thing too daunting a task to deal with ? Much less find that people only speak English on mumble a language that not all of us are familiar with.

like I said it really depends on the server, only 1 that is ONE server demands english speaking only in mumble...
If you can play PR, learning PR.. is I can guarantee you more daunting than learning how to use mumble...
so really that excuse is just lame..


4) Put the shoe on the other foot: How would the PR community feel about other servers ruthlessly enforcing TS2/3 rules and kicking any one who is not on TS2/3. Do you think that this sort of thing would really benefit the community ?

to be honest with you, if it could be proven that team speak 3 was of value and made the teamplay experience more better,than I would at least try it out and see what benefits it can bring, rather than simply dismiss it altogether..


Please do not suggest that there are enough servers for us to be able to have mumble exclusive servers because I do not see how that is useful when we see less and less servers that have a decent amount of players in them. - And yes I play almost every night and can tell you first hand that numbers are on the decline something that saddens me deeply.


totally do not agree with this comment, there is always at least minimum of 400 players all the time, and on weekends and eveings that figure rises over 1000.. I think the community is expanding.. I dont understand how you can be so dismissive of mumble.. when you play PR which I am sure is very daunting game for new players.... I think you are really being a bit of a hypercrite and cannot see how what you criticise ( that is step forward in comms- mumble) , yet you play a game ( step forward from vanilla) that is difficult and daunting to learn ...

[Adriaan]

Dear sector7g,

I've read your post and my answer to your direct problem (getting kicked from the server) comes down to this: the server admins decide the rules for their servers and enforce them as they see fit. You getting kicked from a server is not a result of mumble but a result of you disobeing the server rules (I'm assuming the server rules included mumble being obligatory). Server admins can state whatever rules they want for their server and they have the right to enforce those rules as they see fit.

1) What if I find that mumble affects my gaming band width or worse still crashes my computer out all-together thus affecting my ability to play? [...]
2) What if I can not stand the general cacophony and lack of radio discipline that unfortunately occurs? [...]
3)What if I do not speak English and find the whole mumble thing too daunting a task to deal with? [...]

As you know you aren't forced to install and/or use mumble. You don't have to use it and there's all reason for that if it affects your ability to play or if you find that there is too much noise and it distracts from comms instead of enhances them.

4) Put the shoe on the other foot: How would the PR community feel about other servers ruthlessly enforcing TS2/3 rules and kicking any one who is not on TS2/3. Do you think that this sort of thing would really benefit the community ?

If admins chose to enforce the use of TS (or any other VoIP application) then so be it. I haven't seen any though, while there were/are been a few mumble-mandatory servers that (from own experience) have been generally well populated with a good level of teamwork.
If there are servers enforcing any comms application, then there are most likely some good reasons for them to do so (as is the case with mumble) and vice versa.

Please do not suggest that there are enough servers for us to be able to have mumble exclusive servers because I do not see how that is useful when we see less and less servers that have a decent amount of players in them. - And yes I play almost every night and can tell you first hand that numbers are on the decline something that saddens me deeply.

I do suggest that there are enough servers to join without having to use mumble to not get kicked. Frankly, I know of only one server that enforces mumble (others having a large part of the server population using it but not enforcing it). During weekdays at peaktimes there are generally 6 to 8 servers populated. If you don't want to play at a server enforcing the use of mumble you have 7 other servers to choose from. During the weekends the amount of populated servers is usually even more.

You come across to me though as if you are suggesting that there should be no mumble-enforced servers. No-one is forcing to do otherwise if you do not wish to partake in using mumble, not even the admins of a mumble-enforcing server. However, nor can you force people not to use or enforce the use of mumble.

Edit: ninja'd to infinity.

[Stealthgato]

1) What if I find that mumble affects my gaming band width or worse still crashes my computer out all-together thus affecting my ability to play ? does that mean that we should be excluded from the rest of PR. (please do not suggest computer up-grades as not all of us can afford them.)

If your bandwidth got affected by Mumble, it would be so poor you wouldn't be able to play online in the first place. If it crashes your computer, well, try to find a solution, I doubt it would be because of hardware.

2) What if I can not stand the general cacophony and lack of radio discipline that unfortunately occurs ? (please do not suggest muting ourselves in mumble because there is just no point in running it at all if that is the case.)

You probably got the wrong idea about Mumble here, in-game you will only hear people that are very close to you, the only time you can hear everybody talking is between and at the start of rounds when everybody is not in the game world. At these times, you can just deafen yourself by pressing a button (you don't even have to go out of the game) and press it again when you spawn.

3) What if I do not speak English and find the whole mumble thing too daunting a task to deal with ? Much less find that people only speak English on mumble a language that not all of us are familiar with.

If you don't speak English, I'd suggest playing in a server located in your country or just learning it. In my view on online gaming, either speak English or stay off international servers, at the very least in games that require teamwork.

4) Put the shoe on the other foot: How would the PR community feel about other servers ruthlessly enforcing TS2/3 rules and kicking any one who is not on TS2/3. Do you think that this sort of thing would really benefit the community ?

Then people that wanted to play on that server would get TS2/3 or get kicked. If people don't want to use it, they go to other servers.

I guess my question to the community is that in light of the fact that server numbers and PR players seem to be declining

It most certainly isn't.

(Believe it or not but some Clans and gamers actually have there SXXT together with out the aid of mumble, furthermore some of us clans are perfectly happy working with the comms systems that we already have in place.)

So? When you go on a server the team is composed of alot of people, not just you and your clan. You have to work together with the rest of the team, not just your clan, and Mumble is the common program to all PR players.

Please do not suggest that there are enough servers for us to be able to have mumble exclusive servers because I do not see how that is useful when we see less and less servers that have a decent amount of players in them. - And yes I play almost every night and can tell you first hand that numbers are on the decline something that saddens me deeply.

Oh, but I will suggest just that. As it's been said, there's only 1 (?) server that kicks non-mumblers. During the day I see at least 10-15 servers with over 50 players in them. I doubt you can't play in one of all the other servers.

Keep in mind this came from a person that used to frown upon Mumble but when I got to use it I found out that it is indeed an essential tool for good enjoyable teamwork.

[Wicca]

Add me on xfire: wiccasick

Ill help you out mate. Anything you need.

[Pirate]

Anything?

[Wicca]

Anything?

Your gay.



Sector7g.

Id like to say that im sorry you recived a bad experience for being kicked off our server. Usually we dont get people writing about it on the forums, but this seems to have affected you in such a way, that you decided to.

Is this common for you? To write about the times you get kicked of PR servers?

The reason i ask is because i often get kicked for PB issues or glitches in the mod, but ive never written anything like this to any dev or punkbuster assister. For me to write something like this, id have to have had atleast 30 rounds in a row, where i had a REALLY great game. And then go boom bye kicked. Repeatedly.

I just want to say, that if your experience on our server was so great, that you decided to write a complaint about the general way our community is run in PR. Then i can say that when a non mumbler can appreciate mumble without being on it, is the day i have accomplished alot. So thank you mate

I hope you will trace your anger or frustration to the point where you find why you actually wrote this. Cause if its actually a genuin fear of mumble being enforced on every server, then id say don sweat it. That will never happen, if this is just a way you want to get back at us admins for kicking you. Then i can tell you, from my point of view, everytime i type the !k command for a non mumbler, i get a really good feeling inside
Everytime i kick someone for not following orders, i get an even better feeling. And when i kick someone who is griefing or hacking. I just cry in joy.

So if your looking for a good experience, join my mumble admin team. Make this work better man! We can do this


Why did you make this thread anyway?

[Shovel]

IN MOST CASES, Mumble users will use more teamwork than non mumblers. Why? Now, you can tell the apc where the enemy is, or tell the pilot where to take you, without typing it in. Also, mumble is supposed to be low-latency, so it shouldn't affect your ping very much. Mumble is something unlike anything any other mod has created, and we should appreciate it.

[Smegburt_funkledink]

O noes, Wicca showed up.

Why did you make this thread anyway?

He/she's obviously worried PR servers will die off, leaving him with no choice other than playing on a pro-Mumble server.

• 99.9% of Mumble issues can be fixed, just like any technical problem.
• The community is really helpful to players who are new to the program.
• Mumble increases teamwork tenfold and this aint called Project Teamwork for nothing.
• PR even comes with Mumble ready to go.

If you disregard all of those points and still don't want to use Mumble for whatever reason, there's not much anyone can do to help.

[Shovel]

.....this aint called Project Teamwork for nothing.

It's actually not called Project Teamwork at all.