Tank round question

[LegioX]

First time when I played as Tank Squad, I got a bit confused as the gunner. There were 2 tank rounds AP----- and HEAT-----.
If AP stands for Armor Penetrating
and Heat stands for High Explosive Anti Tank
which one do you shoot at soft targets with? Which one do you shoot at armor with?

[Tomato-Rifle]

AP for armor.

HE for soft targets.

[bessert]

I got a similar question . I'm not exactly sure which tank has this type of ammo but (probably merkava) there is a third round type which is similar to the other rounds but only 6 amounts of em are stocked in the tank . (I'm not talking about the tow , i know what it is ) That rounds explodes same way the normal rounds does so what does that shell do ?

[darklord63]

Phosphorus rounds possibly.(Just really strong HEAT.)

[Skull]

hi,

apfsds - Armour-Piercing Fin-Stabilized Discarding
Kinetic energy penetrator - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
against heavy armored targets, such as tanks or apcs, aswell as choppers

heat - high explosive anti tank
High explosive anti-tank warhead - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
against soft targets, such as infantry and light armored vehicles

atgm - anti tank guided missile
Anti-tank missile - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
(basically a tow) against heavy armored targets (merkava (idf), t90 (russia), bradley (us army), bmp (mec)...)

the challenger (brits) has one more round (dont know the name) which is basically a smoke round which can be fired and smokes on impact.

regards,
skull

[mangeface]

hi,

apfsds - Armour-Piercing Fin-Stabilized Discarding
Kinetic energy penetrator - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
against heavy armored targets, such as tanks or apcs, aswell as choppers

heat - high explosive anti tank
High explosive anti-tank warhead - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
against soft targets, such as infantry and light armored vehicles

atgm - anti tank guided missile
Anti-tank missile - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
(basically a tow) against heavy armored targets (merkava (idf), t90 (russia), bradley (us army), bmp (mec)...)

the challenger (brits) has one more round (dont know the name) which is basically a smoke round which can be fired and smokes on impact.

regards,
skull

Descriptive, but with the amount of posts that you have I think that you'd know that Wikipedia is frowned upon at a reference.

[Tanks!]

In Australia we use MPAT (Multi Purpose Anti Tank) which is used mostly against armored and air targets as it will detonate in the direction of a large source of metal. we use HEAT in live ammo training runs.

[BloodBane611]

Descriptive, but with the amount of posts that you have I think that you'd know that Wikipedia is frowned upon at a reference.

For general knowledge wikipedia is quite good, it's just not a quality source for specific knowledge. For pointing out the general differences between AP, HEAT, HESH, MPAT, etc it's basically acceptable.

[Nebsif]

Wish HEAT actually had any AT capabilities... like shouldnt it shred APCs n stuff..?

[Jaymz]

Wish HEAT actually had any AT capabilities... like shouldnt it shred APCs n stuff..?

It does....direct hit on any APC/IFV in-game will set it to critical damage (it will explode seconds after).

[Conman51]

It does....direct hit on any APC/IFV in-game will set it to critical damage (it will explode seconds after).

Even the BMP-3? i think those take 2 AP rounds

[Ninja2dan]

Just remember though that the main gun of an MBT is primarily designed for anti-armor, not anti-personnel. You can lob a HEAT round into a tight group of grunts, but the effect will be minimal. You're probably better off just opening up with the coax while your fire support elements (infantry, crew-served weapons, or other weapon systems) engage.

Tanks also rarely operate alone, they are used in combination with other support units such as aircraft or troops. Each type of unit supports the other, with MBTs keeping the heavies off the troops and the troops keep enemy infantry off the MBTs.


Rounds like the MPAT (M830A1 for example) are slightly more effective against ground troops than the standard HEAT rounds (M830 as example) because it uses a larger bursting charge that is capable of dealing a bit more direct HE damage. But they are not designed as an actual anti-personnel weapon, and still have limited effectiveness against ground troops.

We do have the M1028 Canister round, which is basically just a really big shotgun shell. The effective range is limited to only 600-700m, but it will tear the *** out of personnel better than any other main-gun round.


In regards to the actual effectiveness of the various rounds, note that a single hit on any vehicle (even a SUV) isn't a guaranteed "kill". Sure, you'll almost always do severe damage, but taking out the engine or even killing the driver still leaves the turret crew and main weapons operational. It might not be able to run away, but it can still ruin your day. Shooting at a tank is like rolling the dice, you might get lucky or you might strike out.

You can use both SABOT and HEAT against armor, but the choice of which round to use will depend on many variables. What type of target is it? What's the range? What angle is the target? What side of the target is exposed? Is the target moving or stationary? Are you moving or stationary? The list goes on, and only plenty of proper training will help decide what to use.

Some things to consider though, the APFSDS is a kinetic round and it loses punching power as the range increases. The HEAT round has the same punch regardless of range. But the HEAT round also flies slower, which means it has a limited range and impacts at a steeper angle. And because of its slower speed, HEAT rounds take longer to actually travel to the target. There are so many factors to figure out when engaging armor, it's hard to say exactly which round to use against which target every time.

[Jaymz]

Just remember though that the main gun of an MBT is primarily designed for anti-armor, not anti-personnel. You can lob a HEAT round into a tight group of grunts, but the effect will be minimal. You're probably better off just opening up with the coax while your fire support elements (infantry, crew-served weapons, or other weapon systems) engage.

Yeah I've often thought that MBT HEAT rounds in-game have too big a damage radius. It's currently an 8m kill (critically wound) radius and a 16m wound radius. But then again....their ability to blow through cover isn't properly portrayed.

[Dev1200]

In-game, AP For armor, HEAT For soft targets, smoke (WP) for trolling tanks without thermals and scaring the shit out of friendlies and TOW for one shotting everything.



However, AP should really do less damage against APCs than HEAT. HEAT/MPAT would explode inside the vehicle, causing more damage than just a huge metal penetrator lobbing through.


Although it depends where you hit, HEAT when AP over-penetrates your target.

[Ninja2dan]

[quote=""'[R-DEV"]Jaymz;1546364']Yeah I've often thought that MBT HEAT rounds in-game have too big a damage radius. It's currently an 8m kill (critically wound) radius and a 16m wound radius. But then again....their ability to blow through cover isn't properly portrayed.[/quote]

Unfortunately, due to the game engine limitations, this is one of many aspects of warfare that can't be properly simulated in PR. The game wasn't designed around ballistics and munition capabilities, for example a round will penetrate a plate of armor without taking into consideration the angle of impact. I guess what we have in PR is the best mix, modified to improve gameplay even if it's not fully accurate.

[quote="Dev1200""]
However, AP should really do less damage against APCs than HEAT. HEAT/MPAT would explode inside the vehicle, causing more damage than just a huge metal penetrator lobbing through.

Although it depends where you hit, HEAT when AP over-penetrates your target.[/quote]

Regardless of the target type, as long as it's armored then both rounds will have harsh effects. The Sabot round has two primary forms of damage: The actual projectile penetrating and striking personnel/components, and the spall generated from the force of the impact.

A HEAT round however is focusing mainly on two other types of damage: Penetration and heat. The jet formed by the shaped charge will slice through the armor and possibly strike personnel/components, and the hot jet can ignite combustibles or spew molten metals like shrapnel. But HEAT rounds cause minimal spalling, and you usually only get a single focused jet inside.

Even against a lightly-armored vehicle, a HEAT round is not going to penetrate before detonating. As long as the point of impact is solid enough the shaped charge will initiate outside the target, not inside. Against an unarmored vehicle like a sedan, sure you might have an interior detonation. But against an APC you'll see a strike similar to that against an MBT.

And with a Sabot round, the penetration of the projectile is not what causes the most damage, it's the spalling effect from the kinetic impact. That rod might knock a hole the size of a softball, but the spall generated is almost equal to that of a normal M67 hand grenade. Of course, the spalling in modern armored vehicles has been greatly reduced by the installation of anti-spall liners specifically for that reason.

[samogon100500]

Offtopic,but in my opinion HEAT round to much HE and not so much AT =)
ATGM got HEAT warhead for example and penetrate tanks at 1-2 missiles.HEAT rounds don't penetrate armor as they must and usually using against infantry targets,fortifications and light vehicles like trucks,jeeps etc.

I think HEAT must have more penetration power,thats splash radius.

Also - Russian MBTs got 4 types of shells - SABOT,HEAT,HE-FRAG and ATGM(Only at modern tanks like T-80,T-90 or old modernized tanks) in R/L.

About WP round.AFAIK White Phosphorus was good weapon against infantry - they burn a meat to the bones.Also they use in all tanks as smoke grenade launchers.

Oh yeah - Difference between MPAT and HEAT on Bf2 engine not visible,they could be visible only in R/L(I mean shrapnel airburst).

[Skull]

hi,

the reason why heat is not a anti tank round (anymore!) and why ap replaced it.

when tanks first came up the obvious counter would be to shoot a round with as much explosive power as possible at him. the round explodes on impact and that is still enough to penetrate the "thin" armor. with earlier tanks that worked.
nowadays the armor is too strong though. the kinetic power of the explosion is spead over a bigger area. (cause its not possible in the bf2 engine) we dont take into consideration what else effects the impact might have, besides penetrating the armor, but a heat round simply doesnt penetrate the armor anymore therefore doesnt kill the crew, neither destroyes any essential parts.
the ap round on the other side - which i think was stated correctly in the wikipedia link - doesnt simply blow on impact, but penetrates the armor with a "needle" by concentrating the kinetic energy on a small point. with armor penetrated the remaining kinetic energy is enough to kill/destroy everything inside.

what i forgot in my initial post are the
sabot - (French for a wooden shoe or clog)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabot
basically the same as an ap round

mpat - multi purpose anti tank
the same as a heat round

the reason i use wikipedia is - as stated by bloodbane - that for general knowledge its quite good, but i would never use or recommend it for anything specific.

regards,
skull

[Punkbuster]

HEAT for Soft targets and mass amounts of infantry.
AP for Main Battle Tanks and some APC...