Cache spawning

[badmojo420]

I think spawning on purple (hidden) caches should be disabled.

I think having them spawnable is counter-productive for the insurgents. People use them as a base of attack and supply depot. Ignoring the need for hideouts and de-valuing the logistics trucks. Not to mention giving away the hidden location of our enemies objective.

Also, on top of that, the people playing properly (defending the known cache) are becoming bored because the coalition are being engaged at the unknown cache. Which leads to people leaving their positions and wondering around the map, engaging in head-on battles with the coalition, rather than using ambush tactics.

I'm not saying people can't handle waiting a little while for the coalition. In fact, that waiting around helps makes PR a great game. What I'm saying is that most of the team will be working together defending the known cache, but due to a few people spawning on the unknowns rather than somewhere further, the known sees very little action while 3-4 unknowns go down. Which leads to boredom and hurts moral.

Better administration you say? Well, that's the tricky part. Even with admins being completely anal about it, it still happens constantly. You would literally have to sit there and watch the map the whole game to stop it from happening.

And, it's even debatable weather being near the unknown cache is good or bad. I personally think, if it's done right, a couple people around an unknown can save it from being discovered sometimes.

But, I know for sure, that giving the whole team an easy spawn on our hidden objective will 90% of the time result in at least a few people ignoring secrecy and using it as a spawn & point of attack.

Discuss.

[ChiefRyza]

Remove the second cache - one at a time equals a more focused fight without having your team being spread across the entire map. Having two cache locations means you spend all your time defending the known cache, then when an unknown appears, the coalition can just drive a couple Humvees over un-opposed and take it out.

[badmojo420]

Having two cache locations means you spend all your time defending the known cache, then when an unknown appears, the coalition can just drive a couple Humvees over un-opposed and take it out.

But, they only drive over and take it because someone spawned there.

If every insurgent hid in the main when the caches are unknown, the coalition would have a VERY difficult time of playing the game. It's in the hands of the insurgents to give the game away, which is happening too much due to spawning on the unknowns.

I don't think switching to 1 cache will help, people will simply spawn on the 1 unknown.

[Rissien]

So many times, just one guy spawning. Or especially the case of those people who just HAVE to grab a cache kit and just cant contain themselves and fire at a BLUFOR vehicle or inf thus giving the cache away. More unknowns go down in our server than knowns half the time because of one person being stupid and giving the unknown away just by his mere presence.

[Psyrus]

I had a similar thought a month ago, and from that discussion I think the combination of your (badmojo) and ChiefRyza's points is optimal. Here is how I would set up insurgency for the next version if I were the head honcho.

First cache is spawned and known at the start of the map as it is currently.

At the 50% intel mark (25 points), a new cache spawns... the unknown. However at this point it is not spawnable. Gives the insurgents an indication that the blufor are making progress in sussing out the new cache location, as well as giving the insurgents a heads-up as to where it will be when known.

Then when the 100% intel comes (50 points), the new cache becomes spawnable and the insurgents get their 5 minutes to [set up dogboxes]* and mines etc to ready themselves for the blufor assault.

The reasoning behind this method is twofold. It is for the insurgents to have time with only 1 cache to worry about between them being killed, and also to ascertain how quickly intel is being fed to the blufor team. If your new unknown pops up really quickly after another has died, you can be sure the blufor are gathering intel quickly, and you may wish to send a car full of a squad to the unknown to have a bit of extra time to set up defenses. This is then a decision by the team/squad, not some random guy thinking 'hmm yeah I think that spawn looks good' as it currently stands. The 25 intel requirement for new cache spawning is the simulation of the new cell's cache gathering time, getting the new weapons in position etc.

---------
Dogboxes*: I would be interested in seeing how the following dynamic would work. Currently the most optimal dogbox setup around a cache is three (for each) dogboxes organized ideally in a [near] equilateral triangle with sides being >=200m long. This results in each dogbox being roughly no further than ______ from the cache, covering most assault avenues. (I sadly couldn't work out the math on the distance of the center of a equilateral triangle of 200m sides... *fail uni student*)

I would try the system of the cache remaining spawnable whilst known [with the same overrun rules as FOBs], however the dogboxes couldn't be placed closer than 200m from the cache. This is just a slightly different dynamic to the current one, and would serve to reinforce known cache defense and reward insurgent teams that keep the US team >50m away from the cache. It also means that the insurgents, on average, have much further to run if they allow the cache to be overrun, which should give them a bigger incentive to not let the US get too close.

It also serves to stop dogboxes being used as informants like I do - my triangle dogboxes allow me to gauge roughly which direction the US are sneaking up from or attacking from, depending on which go down. This allows the ins team to preemptively move the majority of the forces to that side to beat back the assault, and then quickly recreate the dogbox for future info on assault routes. If they had to be minimum 200m from the cache, they'd be further apart and thus less likely to be accidentally overrun by approaching squads.

[Haji with a Handgun]

I must be new here, what's a dogbox?

[Dev1200]

Remove the second cache - one at a time equals a more focused fight without having your team being spread across the entire map. Having two cache locations means you spend all your time defending the known cache, then when an unknown appears, the coalition can just drive a couple Humvees over un-opposed and take it out.

Not being able to spawn on the cache = cache stays undefended until they can see it.

Also, wtf dogbox?

[dtacs]

A dogbox is the solely Australian/New Zealand term for an Insurgent/Hamas/Taliban hideout, named as such since it looks sort of like a dogs kennel.

[Vanya]

I kind of like the idea of not being able to spawn at the cache. Maybe only spawnable after it is know. I just so desperately want people to put of ...dogboxs.

But to say no one should ever spawn at an unknown is down right, well, simple minded. (by all means i don't mean that as an insult. Well maybe a tiny bit. Super tiny if that helps. JK)

Its like saying here I got you an oreo and im going to put it in this other room with the fat guy that loves oreos. No, don't worry there is a small chance he will eat it and if he does you will hear him. You might even get to see him finish it if you run.

I love Oreos.

I digress, it isn't the fact that people spawn at the unknown it is what they do once they are there.

Lets not change the game for those "special" people that fire rps from the cache lets educate them.

[Psyrus]

I digress, it isn't the fact that people spawn at the unknown it is what they do once they are there.

Lets not change the game for those "special" people that fire rps from the cache lets educate them.

At the same time though, the game was changed for those "special" people who insisted on single crewing armour despite the 30 second gun warmup time; an additional check that a driver was present when entering the gunner's position was added.

I would say it's the majority of unknown spawners that are detrimental to the insurgent side, not the minority as I think you might be suggesting? As in my linked thread, there are of course some individuals that you'd want around an unknown cache... but in the implementation I detailed they can walk/drive there and set up a dogbox hideout if need be, and it wouldn't be laziness as the factor that results in people around the unknown, but a realized purpose of coordinated defense

[Vanya]

At the same time though, the game was changed for those "special" people who insisted on single crewing armour despite the 30 second gun warmup time; an additional check that a driver was present when entering the gunner's position was added.

I would say it's the majority of unknown spawners that are detrimental to the insurgent side, not the minority as I think you might be suggesting? As in my linked thread, there are of course some individuals that you'd want around an unknown cache... but in the implementation I detailed they can walk/drive there and set up a dogbox hideout if need be, and it wouldn't be laziness as the factor that results in people around the unknown, but a realized purpose of coordinated defense

Ok, I see now. It's like weeding out the herd. Chances are the guy that goes all the way to the unknown is one that will most likely do the right thing while he is there.

Then again on the way to the unknown you might have to lose a tail or to. All James Bond style.

*Pull into the ally, Watch HMVEE go by, Pull back out, Go on to cache*

[lukeyu2005]

Also has anyone else noticed that Caches often spawn right next to blufor firebases.
I don't play much insurgency but that's happened to me twice. And it's really Really annoying.
Is it possible to make a dome of not spawning caches around a FOB or something because this nonsense has to stop.

For dickheads spawning on unknown caches an idea would to have a message reminding them that the cache is hidden and don't be a **** and give it away. In the same place as the "You must drop this kit" message just everytime you spawn on a unknown cache.
At least all the literate **** heads would have been warned.

And yes i get pissed off by this a lot too. If you are going to be inpatient and a **** go and play COD.
COD actually rewards you for being a ****. May the best dickhead win. Lol

[badmojo420]

At the same time though, the game was changed for those "special" people who insisted on single crewing armour despite the 30 second gun warmup time; an additional check that a driver was present when entering the gunner's position was added.

I would say it's the majority of unknown spawners that are detrimental to the insurgent side, not the minority as I think you might be suggesting? As in my linked thread, there are of course some individuals that you'd want around an unknown cache... but in the implementation I detailed they can walk/drive there and set up a dogbox hideout if need be, and it wouldn't be laziness as the factor that results in people around the unknown, but a realized purpose of coordinated defense

Very nicely said. You made some excellent points.

And, I agree with removing the unknown spawn being simple minded, it sucks to punish everyone for a few peoples mistakes. But, If it means a better overall outcome, then I think most of us can live with it.

[SnipeHunt]

It is important to be able to spawn on an unknown cache to set up defenses and hideouts. How often does it happen that the known cache goes down and you, along with your team, are now in the middle of nowhere and have to find your way to another cache by foot, since there are not hideouts nearby, before it goes under attack. Then try to set up defenses and hideouts after the cache is known.

...but with all the screaming through chat about not spawning on the unknowns makes me do just that, and that in-turn causes the insurgent team a disadvantage on the next cache.

[tntkid22]

just a random thought pertaining to the subject but...

whats wrong with this: removing spawns on unknowns till they are known?


if you want to go set up a defense/fob you can use the TRANSPORT available to the insurgent forces...

[lucky.BOY]

Yes, i like this SUGGESTION.

[Rissien]

There are those rare times spawning on unknowns are needed, or quite useful. Did it the other day on Ramiel, we put up some hideouts very carefully then left untill it became known.

[goguapsy]

just a random thought pertaining to the subject but...

whats wrong with this: removing spawns on unknowns till they are known?


if you want to go set up a defense/fob you can use the TRANSPORT available to the insurgent forces...

This makes absolute sense.

BUT I would then suggest to have a 10min delay for a known cache to be seen by BLUFOR, so there is more time to set up defenses.

I might also argue that we might need a little less intel as BLUFOR to find a cache - I mean, if a 10min delay is added, for example, instead of 5, it would drag the game a big too much IMO.



(Having 1 cache would basically make it impregnable in maps like Op Archer, Lashkar... if it spawns in a "favorable" position to the Taliban/Insurgents - Ie. inside caves and hills).


A dome of Cache sounds a bit buggy to me - picture Al Basrah, for example.

Set up a FOB in the village S of main = no cache there. Set up a FOB in the surburts = no cache there. Set up a FOB in the island and Mansion = no Cache there. Set up a FOB on the S region of the city = no cache there... Result? Caches only at refinery, which isn't the best place to defend IMO, as insurgents.

[EnermaX]

I absolutely agree with this suggestion.

[tntkid22]

and I know the importance of spawning on the unknown to set up a fob when sometimes its faster and easier to do so but it sometimes is pointless because those "special" people see that people spawned there and they're like oh well that means i can...RAPID RPG GOOOOOOOO

-_- but I still like my suggestion because it would also promote keeping the ins trans alive instead of using it like its disposable (which usually it is for the most part)