Overhaul of US Weapons

[Brandon_Heat]

While I love PR 1000 times more than normal battlefield 2 iv come to notice this when fighting mainly in insurgency mode where infantry CQB is the decisive factor. Like "Normal' battlefield 2, the US weapons are rather lackluster in any kind of CQB Against AK type weapons.

My suggestion would be to change the "Aim point" Riflemen weapon for all US Forces, as well as any classes that now use "Aim point" M-16A4's, or Aim point M-4's(Riflemen Spec, Crewman, Ect) to a new M-4A1 Model, with deletion of the "Front" Iron sight and fully automatic capability replacing "burst". This could aid vastly in any CQB Encounter and "level" the playing field against a bad guy with an AK who only needs to hit you two times to take you down.


Like this



Minus the suppressor obviously.

Realistically, this would offer an advantage in close quarters in the weapon being more compact, easier to maneuver, the availability of full automatic mode however offering a slight decrease in long range accuracy.

Next, the Marksman kit for the US is next to useless. Plagued with issues, I would propose its primary weapon be replaced by a suppressed M-16A4 "Designated Marksman" Version
United States Army Squad Designated Marksman Rifle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

With either a "Standard" ACOG and improved accuracy or a low power scope similar to the marksman rifle, able only to fire in semi auto mode.


Next the "SAW". The addition of a "Aimpoint" sight and deletion of the iron sights would be useful for longer ranged engagements.

[Scot]

The M4A1 is only issued to Special Forces and so will not be in the hands of regular soldiers, and will not make it into PR. The PR Team has military advisors, and so normally the armies in-game get what is issued in real life.

The SAW is going to be getting an ELCAN in 0.86 see this thread:
https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f196-p ... -menu.html

Finally, the S-DMR has been suggested before, and I think the DEVs are trying to get it in game, however it's not very high priority. Thanks for joining the forums and remember to search, check theAlread Suggested Suggestions thread and don't be afraid to ask questions

[Jigsaw]

IBTL

M4 A1 is only issued to special forces. Its simple if a weapon is not in general use within a countries armed forces (and by general I mean used by the rank and file) then it will not be coming into PR.

Secondly, the differences between the AK and M16 are realistic differences and also balanced in terms of gameplay. Whilst the AK (in all variants) is superior in close quarters the M16 excels in longer range firefights.

Oh and suppressed weapons will not be coming into PR

Ninjad by Scot

[Brandon_Heat]

Maybe I am just tired of getting 1 shotted every time I go into a cache after i empty 3 bursts into an Insurgent. is their a way to have a damage modifier to compensate for the supiror body armor of US, MEC, Russian & Chinese soldiers over insurgents of various types?

Also whats the deal then with the current use of the M-4 by the "US Army" Faction (Vs the US Marines Faction) ?

[Ace42]

IMO the three-round burst on the M-16 needs its recoil reduced so that all three shots will impact when fired at close range; that's why TRB was instituted on the M16A2.

Maybe I am just tired of getting 1 shotted every time I go into a cache after i empty 3 bursts into an Insurgent. is their a way to have a damage modifier to compensate for the supiror body armor of US, MEC, Russian & Chinese soldiers over insurgents of various types?

I believe it's already implemented. However, it is possible to adjust the values so that body-armour has a greater reduction on damage taken from small-arms projectiles, etc. Assuming you know real-life circumstances which would merit this superior protection.

[Scot]

Maybe I am just tired of getting 1 shotted every time I go into a cache after i empty 3 bursts into an Insurgent. is their a way to have a damage modifier to compensate for the supiror body armor of US, MEC, Russian & Chinese soldiers over insurgents of various types?

Also whats the deal then with the current use of the M-4 by the "US Army" Faction (Vs the US Marines Faction) ?

There already is, it's just generally when you get given the bad news by several 7.62 rounds, you will be dead or seriously wounded.

In regards to the second point, Marines use the M16 and the Army the M4 as that is what happens in real life.

[Jigsaw]

Again realism. If someone shoots you in the chest with an AK47 at close range you are going to go down, simple no matter how much body armour you are wearing.

And there is no way that you could empty 3 bursts into an insurgent and not kill him, you simply aren't hitting him, only takes 3/4 rounds to drop someone with an M16.

Edit: God damn it Scot

[Brandon_Heat]

Again realism. If someone shoots you in the chest with an AK47 at close range you are going to go down, simple no matter how much body armour you are wearing.

And there is no way that you could empty 3 bursts into an insurgent and not kill him, you simply aren't hitting him, only takes 3/4 rounds to drop someone with an M16.

Edit: God damn it Scot

*Shrugs* Iv watched one of these guys twitch twice (meaning I would guess at least 1 round from each burst) with two bursts fired at them only to be 1 shotted to the body a second later. I Dont know exactly how the hit sectors work in battlefield 2, if it is generalized above the shoulders, between the shoulders and the pevis, and below, or if a "Hit to arm" "Hit to center chest" could be registered to realistically represent body armor.


I Dont want to make ANOTHER post for this but has anyone suggested the implimintation of "Breaching Charges" or flash bangs to US forces yet?

[Scot]

*Shrugs* Iv watched one of these guys twitch twice (meaning I would guess at least 1 round from each burst) with two bursts fired at them only to be 1 shotted to the body a second later. I Dont know exactly how the hit sectors work in battlefield 2, if it is generalized above the shoulders, between the shoulders and the pevis, and below, or if a "Hit to arm" "Hit to center chest" could be registered to realistically represent body armor.


I Dont want to make ANOTHER post for this but has anyone suggested the implimintation of "Breaching Charges" or flash bangs to US forces yet?

If you go rifleman specialist, there is a shotgun which can blow of locks and some doors in game. Flashbangs have been suggested before, they were in, but were removed because they didn't work very well and are rarely used by regular armed forces.

[waldo_ii]

My suggestion would be to change the "Aim point" Riflemen weapon for all US Forces, as well as any classes that now use "Aim point" M-16A4's, or Aim point M-4's(Riflemen Spec, Crewman, Ect) to a new M-4A1 Model, with deletion of the "Front" Iron sight and fully automatic capability replacing "burst". This could aid vastly in any CQB Encounter and "level" the playing field against a bad guy with an AK who only needs to hit you two times to take you down.


Realistically, this would offer an advantage in close quarters in the weapon being more compact, easier to maneuver, the availability of full automatic mode however offering a slight decrease in long range accuracy.



Next, the Marksman kit for the US is next to useless. Plagued with issues, I would propose its primary weapon be replaced by a suppressed M-16A4 "Designated Marksman" Version
United States Army Squad Designated Marksman Rifle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

With either a "Standard" ACOG and improved accuracy or a low power scope similar to the marksman rifle, able only to fire in semi auto mode.


Next the "SAW". The addition of a "Aimpoint" sight and deletion of the iron sights would be useful for longer ranged engagements.

M4A1s are, as argued by everyone above, only issued to special forces. They are not standard issue, and as such, PR will not be issuing them to any class or any faction. The front sight will stay; all graphics I have seen of soldiers with the M68 or any other holographic or red-dot sight still have the front post mounted. This is in case the optics fail and they need to flip up their back-up sights. Because all (most) soldiers keep the front sight attached in real life, PR will reflect that.

For now, the roll of the US Army and the USMC Designated Marksman will be played out with the common M14 until PR acquires a model of the rifle that the US Army/USMC are adopting as their official designated-marksman rifle. The DM variants of the M16A4 are temporary solutions, and the USMC does not plan to have such a variant as their dedicated squad marksman rifle.

The M249 will, as said above, be equipped with an ELCAN sight in future releases, with the backup ironsights being used for the undeployed varient of the weapon.

Maybe I am just tired of getting 1 shotted every time I go into a cache after i empty 3 bursts into an Insurgent. is their a way to have a damage modifier to compensate for the supiror body armor of US, MEC, Russian & Chinese soldiers over insurgents of various types?

Also whats the deal then with the current use of the M-4 by the "US Army" Faction (Vs the US Marines Faction) ?

By taking your time, using your sights, slowing down, and using a stealthier approach, you should have no problem dropping insurgents in close quarters with 5.56. Three center-mass shots should easily kill an insurgent.

All conventional forces have body armor in game. If you shoot a civilian with 5.56 in-game it will do more damage than if you shoot a conventional soldier with 5.56.


The US Army uses the M4 in real life. The US Marine Core uses the M16A4 in real life. In the near future, USMC officers in game will be equipped with an M4, along with a few other specialized classes.


Insurgent weapons mostly use the 7.62x39mm round, which is a better CQB round. NATO forces should avoid close-quarters situations as much as possible. The larger round will do its respective damage.

*Shrugs* Iv watched one of these guys twitch twice (meaning I would guess at least 1 round from each burst) with two bursts fired at them only to be 1 shotted to the body a second later. I Dont know exactly how the hit sectors work in battlefield 2, if it is generalized above the shoulders, between the shoulders and the pevis, and below, or if a "Hit to arm" "Hit to center chest" could be registered to realistically represent body armor.


I Dont want to make ANOTHER post for this but has anyone suggested the implimintation of "Breaching Charges" or flash bangs to US forces yet?

My guess is that lag is causing your hitboxes to lag. Do a simple google for "bf2 hitbox fixer" and you will find your solution. As far as I know, limb shots will do more damage than chest shots already. I am unsure on this; I heard it a while back from a guy I know who plays a fair amount with devs. Even so, you should always aim for the center body mass. Always.

"Breaching chargers" = breaching shotgun. There is no need for a new model just to do the job of a breaching shotgun.

Flash bangs were in older versions and have been removed for various reasons, including overusage, improper usage, and not being issued commonly to soldiers/marines.

[Brandon_Heat]

If you go rifleman specialist, there is a shotgun which can blow of locks and some doors in game. Flashbangs have been suggested before, they were in, but were removed because they didn't work very well and are rarely used by regular armed forces.

I Cant find a good video but I seem to remember breaching charges being used to blow holes in wall & buildings during various urban battles in iraq, that was more what I was leaning towards. When the roof and doors are covered just MAKE a nice new opening in the back of a building or a wall.

[ReapersWarrior]

most of the buildings in bf2 are not destructable, so blowing a hole in them is not possible. When there is a destructable building usually the roofs stay intact anyway.

The combat engineer has C4 charges and thats the closest your going to get to a breaching charge.

[R.J.Travis]

Burst is pointless Its just not what it should be you wont kill them one bullet hits the other 2 don't its just going to get you killed use signal shot and shoot 3 rounds as fast as you can for a real burst.

INS should be black and white from one 5.56 to the chest with in 100m. they say ins have no body armor? eh go test it they still take 2/3 to kill just like the mec team.

Burst should land in a line going up and silty to the right not like it is now where one go where you aim and the other 2 go left or way right.

The US Army use's Burst over fully auto to save ammo But in PR you waste more ammo then fully auto needs to be fixed and looked into.

Also for the love of god kara Please fix the Acog scope I PM you with no reply like a few months ago even Rhino agreed it was way to big ):< "Oh and if your working on fixing it sorry (: just never got a reply."

[Jay]

I really don't see what people's problem is with the US on Insurgency maps. First of all, the insurgents are supposed to win in CQC. Secondly, I've never really had a problem killing insurgents with burst fire. You just have to bring your sights up, and spam bullets in his general direction.

[Ace42]

I really don't see what people's problem is with the US on Insurgency maps. (...) You just have to (...) spam bullets in his general direction.

I think you've answered your own question there...

[Hresvelgr]

Burst is pointless Its just not what it should be you wont kill them one bullet hits the other 2 don't its just going to get you killed use signal shot and shoot 3 rounds as fast as you can for a real burst.

INS should be black and white from one 5.56 to the chest with in 100m. they say ins have no body armor? eh go test it they still take 2/3 to kill just like the mec team.

Burst should land in a line going up and silty to the right not like it is now where one go where you aim and the other 2 go left or way right.

The US Army use's Burst over fully auto to save ammo But in PR you waste more ammo then fully auto needs to be fixed and looked into.

Also for the love of god kara Please fix the Acog scope I PM you with no reply like a few months ago even Rhino agreed it was way to big ):< "Oh and if your working on fixing it sorry (: just never got a reply."

Acog and burst work just fine. I at least go used to the US scope. As for burst, yes, it is very ineffective at CQC, so therefore don't f***ing go that close to insurgents! Just because your team has every possible asset and still has weaknesses doesn't mean there's something wrong with the game, just means your not that good. This game isn't about giving USA every possible advantage just to cater to people like you. Especially if it means being unrealistic. USA uses burst-fire rifles, so they get their damn burst-fire and not auto-fire.

[Jay]

I think you've answered your own question there...

But it works... So again, I pose the question, what is people's problem with it?

[Zimmer]

Its a reason when US and Norwegian armies meet for training the US soldiers are counted as dead when they get to cover when an AG-3F2 is pointing at them, the 7.62 bullet is deadly.

[TempesT]

I don't think this is necessary. I find the US weapons to peform sufficiently in close quarters.

[Ace42]

burst work just fine. (...) As for burst, yes, it is very ineffective at CQC, so therefore don't f***ing go that close to insurgents!

Ahem, the whole point of TRB that it's supposed to work for CQB. The fact that the recoil is so high that most of the shots miss at close range makes it useless. As pointed out, you're better off spamming semi, than TRB. That's both unrealistic and just plain silly. If having a realistic level of recoil / deviation from TRB unbalances the game, then the insurgents need other, realistic, perks / buffs to balance their default kits out - not unrealistically cripple the US kits.

Also, are you going to say that USMC shouldn't "get that close to mec"?