Hands up civy = More intell points lost

[goguapsy]

Instead of just the player who comitted the offence getting a long spawn time, maybe it would be a good idea that all players in the squad get a 120sec fixed spawn time. Even if they leave the squad.

hv u ever played as a SL? u know that it isnt everyone in your sqd who obeys u. maybe they do before, but when u say NO DONT SHOOT DONT SHOOT and they shoot, u r obviously gonna kick him if it was serious (like shooting a civy), but the whole sqd shouldnt be penalized. its not a sqds fault, its mainly the killer's fault. a smart SL would kick whoever disobeyed orders, but its hard to notice if the sm disobeys the most important order, shooting a Civi.

Therefore, the killer should be punished and maybe get kicked if the offence repeats itself (just like Americas Army and the Rules of Engagement (ROE)). got it?

[spawncaptain]

I really like the idea of a greater penalty when shooting civilians with their hands up. Lifetime suppression is also a good idea. On Karbala it worked out. I spawned near a cache and Blufor shot the **** out of the few insurgents defending it. They even had a deployed saw overlooking most of the nearby area. I managed to get out of there by raising my hands and slowly moving backwards towards a hole in the wall.
On Al Basrah, however, the Brits killed me four times though I was clearly putting my hands up. They didn't seem to suffer any penalty.

Hresvelgr
The only ways Coalition should be allowed to kill civies are with restrainers, shotgun, running them over, or shooting them when their in a car or after picking up another kit. But definitely not for healing people or climbing. Wasn't the point of killing them if they were climbing because you can't restrain/knife them when they are? Because now that is irrelevant, shotgun works too now. Shooting enemies healing others is against Geneva convention, and if Coalition could not shoot enemy medics, it would add a new, asymmetrical element to the gameplay.

Good point.

[Oddsodz]

I Myself am happy for the long spwan times on the Civy kit. It stops the the "Human Shield" stuff we used to have. We need to make it clear that "Human Shields" is not how we want the Civys class to be used. The the high spawn times fine with me. But when I do get killed as a civy (not arrested), I Want the Brits/US teams to get penalised for it. After all, we are meant to be civilized culture. And getting shot for healing somebody, well that just has a ugly stink to it.

Penalising one player is not working. So in my book. The next step is penalise the whole team. That will make it stop. the "name and shame" would be a nice extra also.

[Mongolian_dude]

;1059958']

The fact that it is only the collaborator who is penalized for being killed and not the person who fired the weapon is completely backwards.

Your right, but there should be some penalisation for the civilian too. Otherwise, we're gonna return to how civis were initially played: Running in front of fire and generally being an ***-hat. Fun for the civi, but ghey for the coalition and gameplay.

...mongol...

[White Rock]

I really like the idea of hands up civilian having a lower spawn. It gives him a chance to stay on rooftops and spot without having to worry about getting shot by some guy who knows that with enough deaths the civvies is just gonna quit or change class and with no civvies coalition job is much easier.

It doesnt even have to be much lower. How about 120 normal and 50-60 with hands up?



EDIT: Does the "There is also no penalty for shooting
them if they used a weapon, vehicle....."


feature apply for rocks? As in if i have my rocks out can the coalition shoot me?

[Cassius]

imo civy should be gone. The way he is used is not realistic. Civies are either a single angry mob or try to get away from the shooting, but there are usually not a few civies mengled in a terrorist stronghold attempting to lure troops.
On top of it, every civvie you see staring down his binos, could be a potential spotter for artillery and therefore a valid military target.

[Hresvelgr]

I really like the idea of hands up civilian having a lower spawn. It gives him a chance to stay on rooftops and spot without having to worry about getting shot by some guy who knows that with enough deaths the civvies is just gonna quit or change class and with no civvies coalition job is much easier.

It doesnt even have to be much lower. How about 120 normal and 50-60 with hands up?



EDIT: Does the "There is also no penalty for shooting
them if they used a weapon, vehicle....."


feature apply for rocks? As in if i have my rocks out can the coalition shoot me?

Good point about the 120 seconds normal and stuff, that should apply. Personally though I'd rather have more like 100 seconds normal, though. Some people might just wait for them to pull out binocs or something else, or shoot them when running.

As for the rock, no penalty. They are harmless. They do barely anything even when you hit guys. I've only ever seen them kill people back when there used to be civi-mobs that chased down lone Brits on Basrah. Now, the spawn is to long and they are needed elsewhere, making rocks for distraction purposes.

Cassius: These are collaborators. Civilians who are on the insurgent side and aid them without actually fighting. They are unarmed and not directly hostile however. Therefore they cannot be killed until they show signs of hostility.

[TheLean]

Surely civilians shouldn't be allowed to be shot if they're reviving a insurgent... Isn't there part of the geneva convention saying that you can't prevent medical help no matter who it is being helped?

I think harser penalties are needed, I find it annoying if I accidentally kill a civilian, but it never slows me down or makes me pay more attention for longer than that one match. It should be an emphasis of the insurgency mode and it should be something that is always on people's minds.

Thats right, Pr is actually encouraging players to breach the Geneva Convention by giving them incentives to shoot medics.

Lots of good ideas in this thread. I believe removing all kills from the purpetrators score (since people looking for high kill scores tend to shoot most civvies), giving them a 3 minute spawn time and a global name and shame message on the server. And of course, remove the immoral punishment of healing of combatants, which is totally against the code of conducts of many armies. Why did the ambulances have red cross on their roof in ww2? It was so that the enemy pilots would not bomb them, it was not a target marker.

[R.J.Travis]

I love the civis hands up it has fully stopped me from shooting a civi its a great helper if you got your hands up good pr players will not shoot you thank you devs!

If your going to add more penalizing Do not penalizes the full team give the shooter like a 3m spawn timer if he shoots a civi hands up.

[crazy11]

So far I have been shot more with my hands up and the other team will not even care. I literally just watched an apc roll up and shoot 4 civies with no penalty even though they were just standing there with their hands up for 5 mins.

[lucky14]

I was on TBA the other day (2 days ago, I think). My bud drove an APC on Basrah, while i gunned. Of course, we are both aware of the civie rules and know we can just kill them. However, for the first hour, we supported one of the squads, and got hit by a few RPG's. We didn't die for about an hour.

Anyway, we were careful with our shots, and my driver was even able to restrain a lone civie near the tank.

It's not hard to depict the civies anymore, even in vehicles. People in vehicles should get penalized for shooting at civs with their hands up.

[mosinmatt]

I was on TBA the other day (2 days ago, I think). My bud drove an APC on Basrah, while i gunned. Of course, we are both aware of the civie rules and know we can just kill them. However, for the first hour, we supported one of the squads, and got hit by a few RPG's. We didn't die for about an hour.

Anyway, we were careful with our shots, and my driver was even able to restrain a lone civie near the tank.

It's not hard to depict the civies anymore, even in vehicles. People in vehicles should get penalized for shooting at civs with their hands up.

I think you can still run them over and not get any penalty.

[aperson444]

Maybe with psychological damage, the screen blurs when you spawn, and start losing health?

[ubershank47]

The respawn timer for civilians is iffy IIRC they created it as a way of being anti civ spam and preventing each squad from having a recurring medic, and be used as more of a tactical asset.

I think it is OK as is but I do believe that a harsher penalty should be instated to some one who shot a person who was obviously unarmed with their hands up.

[SpungE]

Uhm. Why don't we stop suggesting arbitrary point and spawn time punishments and just use systems with already know work to stop unwanted behavior?

Just like with team killing, 3 Civi kills should = kick from server.

That will make civilian killing rare enough to really ramp up the punishments for improper civi use (getting killed intentionally).

Also I do agree that you should not be able to kill civilians that are healing/reviving. I also think an insurgent being healed should not be able to make use of their weapon.

[Darkpowder]

Also I do agree that you should not be able to kill civilians that are healing/reviving. I also think an insurgent being healed should not be able to make use of their weapon.

I think we deal with this with the blurry vision effect quite well already. Also considering the 60 second revive and re-shot rule is now in, i think there is enough penalty already. Covering the medic in a safe location with your rifle is good teamwork and should be avoided. If a solider can't support his medic, people will start not bothering to revive at all, because of the risks. The times on a public server i have had more than one player covering me while i was being healed i can count on one hand.

Could it be possible, that if you kill a civi, you get any caches which are on your map and visual to be destroyed(obviously not a loss of cache to the INS team) and moved and not visible to the BLUFOR team,

Good idea scot, i'm liking that one. Personally i would go for the option of.

Kill civvi as coalition = all player score lost, Big Intel Penalty for team, player put on longer respawn.

Kill civvi as coalition with their hands up = all intel lost for coalition and as above.

Civilians giving medical aid and then killed = Civvie gets regular penalty as a "weaponed class" for being killed i.e. the same as if they were a medic. All penalties above apply if appropriate.

[SpungE]

So then all it takes is one dude shooting a few hands up civis to ruin the game for 63 other people? Clarity of thought indeed.

[Darkpowder]

SpungE you do have a point with the teamkill comparison with killing surrenderring civvies.
It could be workable, and probably should be playtested in a future test-phase.

[J.Burton[EEF]]

Your right, but there should be some penalisation for the civilian too. Otherwise, we're gonna return to how civis were initially played: Running in front of fire and generally being an ***-hat. Fun for the civi, but ghey for the coalition and gameplay.

...mongol...

Cant help but think you've misread my post there..
What I said was that it is wrong that only the civilian is punished for being killed. The person who killed should ALSO be punished equally if not more harshly.

Civi/Colab whatever you want to call them should have longer spawn time I agree, to stop noobish behavior.

But when the coalition soldier shoots the civi he should perhaps be killed also, to remove him from the fight and make him realize that he did wrong. This would be instead of him being able to cancel out the negative points he got for the civi kill by killing MORE "bad guys".
With regards to people in armour/vehicles - a similar method of Afterdunes "!kill" script could be applied so they are not instantly killed when they fire the shot, but once they exit the vehicle.

[JDMT]

I was playing on a server the other night, it was running Al Basrah, and me, and 4 other guys were just screwing around as Civvy, until the next round, so we could be BLUFOR. We had some fun moments, and some not so fun, like we were all standing in the intersection by the Mosque, and a WMIK pulls up...And instead of someone getting out with Zip Cuffs, he opens fire with the M2, killing us ALL, all of us were clearly civilians. The only time we got arrested was when we were up by their base, and an APC stops, the driver gets out, and actually chases some of us(For some reason we couldn't out run him...).

You have to admit...Noob+M2+5 Civilians=LMFAO If that was me on that M2, I honestly would have did it too(Hey, at least I'm HONEST).

Seriously, stop punishing, and start rewarding the BLUFOR players for arresting Civilians!