Get rid of support class!!!!

Burning Mustache · Post by **Burning Mustache** » 2006-05-31 11:35

Yes, something along those lines should do the trick quite well.
I can imagine this should be possible to code.
I HOPE so

Malik · Post by **Malik** » 2006-05-31 11:57

If the Support class is going to be fixed, they need to make those damn guns more accurate. At the moment they're not as accurate as they should be. People forget, LMGs have the same barrel length as sniper rifles and they should be as accurate as them.

Please, can people stop throwing around the "U" word when you don't have a clue what you're talking about. The support guns ARE realistic. The reason that every soldier in the army doesn't carry one around is because they need specialist jobs. It's not true that everyone in PRMM is a support class, normally I see very few at a time, you must just be on the wrong server. All I can say that needs to be fixed for the support class is their sprint, it should be further reduced and the 'insta prone' fix I've talked about on every single thread that concerns it.

If you're getting a little upset because you're getting shot by the support guys all the time, coming on here and crying about it isn't the solution. It's interesting how all the people with skill who can manage to take out the support dudes don't have a problem with the class, but those who're getting smashed while playing the sniper class due to poor positioning are complaining. Go practise and you'll see they're not all that hard to kill, especially because they have these super loud guns firing tracers all over the place. One shot to the head, one kill.

Post by **Hitperson** » 2006-05-31 12:08

'[R-DEV wrote:Rhino']I normaly will win a firefight with a Assult vs Support if we see each other at the same time, Aim for the head, 1 shot 1 kill. M16 (and the Ak-101 + AK-47) pawns. Now all i need is my L85A2

nah i want L86 LSW

Post by **Bob_Marley** » 2006-05-31 13:34

Malik wrote:If the Support class is going to be fixed, they need to make those damn guns more accurate. At the moment they're not as accurate as they should be. People forget, LMGs have the same barrel length as sniper rifles and they should be as accurate as them.

But LMGs are manufactured to looser tolerences to make them more reliable at the cost of accuracy and use standard rather than sniper grade ammunition. In fact they are designed to have a fair bit of deviation inorder to properly suppress the enemy. The exceptions to this rule are the Bren gun and the L86 sereis, as they are much too accurate for proper suppressive fire. Its not all about the barrel length you know...

the.ultimate.maverick · Post by **the.ultimate.maverick** » 2006-05-31 13:39

Hey Bob can I get you to tell my girlfriend that

=RvE=FuSiOn · Post by **=RvE=FuSiOn** » 2006-05-31 15:57

u know malik whats funny is, in every thread you seem to stick up for the support class and frankly your trolling is getting irritating...
Im wondering have ever fired a rifle in your life? Better yet do you even know what one looks like..
Seems to me that you like being a smart ***, and ive noticed that in every thread where people complain about support as a class you seem to always trash talk them. Got nothing better to do than sit on the forums and yap all day?
It seems to me you are one of the people that goes around using this class and everytime someone talks about fixing it you automatically get the urge to speak out with such authority.
I dont think the support class should be removed however it should be fixed drastically.

Malik · Post by **Malik** » 2006-05-31 16:21

I never use the support class at all as it happens. I'm a full time medic, and when I get the chance I like to play sniper. I have fired weapons in my life, but for obvious reasons I haven't exactly fired an M249. I'm very happy with PRMM as it is, and it kinda rattles my cage every time somebody comes on here, fresh from the Battlefield ready to complain about whatever it was that killed them the most. For most people it's the support class. Nobody talks about 'fixing' it, the fact is it doesn't need to be fixed, it's right as it is, the DEVs will tell you that. People want it nerfed, and I don't want to see that happen because frankly this game isn't about balance.

It seems most people come on here either asking for something they deem 'realistic' or remove something they feel is 'unrealistic'. If they want something adding they'll normally through in the words 'balance', yet if they want it coming out they talk of 'unbalance'. People want the M249 removed because it kills them, so they decide to call it 'unfair' and 'unrealistic' just because it kills people, yet they're the same people who want strong real life US weapons added because it's 'realistic' and they protest the rejection of the idea of it being overpowered by claiming the game isn't about balance. I'm growing tired of the hypocrites who do this sort of thing every day, I like coming on here and viewing the discussion about cool, plausible fixes to make PR better, but these days all I see are 'Nerf the support class!' threads, or something else relating to somebody's bad experience.

I'm sorry if you've had trouble with support plays while playing, I know how it feels, it happens to me all the time, but just because I'm against the idea of weakening them, that doesn't mean I use them. One of my favourite parts about PRMM is how everybody on the Battlefield is a danger to everyone else. I love sneaking around the streets with my squad, careful of all the dangers that rise. It's great knowing that unlike vBF2 it's not always possible to turn the tables on all your foes, sometimes you have to go other ways around, most of the time you need assistance. I don't want the support class to become less of a problem, right now it's just another challenge that players need to face and just like real conflict, it's not always going to be balanced.

I'm sorry if you've got the wrong impressions about the way I play and what my intentions are when I play PRMM, but I think you've got it a little mixed up.

luizinhuu · Post by **luizinhuu** » 2006-05-31 16:58

the.ultimate.maverick wrote:Luizinhuu mate - I know you have strong feelings but tone the language down, it only makes people stop reading.

okay, sorry
really got pissed off with the "not gonna happen" answer

OiSkout · Post by **OiSkout** » 2006-05-31 17:33

I think people fail to realize that MGers tend to suffer the same problem as snipers. It's called tunnel vision.

MrD · Post by **MrD** » 2006-05-31 18:08

I don't know what LMG's have **** accuracy, but I do know that with the Bren and GPMG they fire so damned fast and accurate that we were glad to have them along. A friend of mine from HK who joined the Royal Marines back when they were commonly called Marine Commando's always tending to be his sections gunner due to the fact he loved the Bren so much for its longer clip, effective fire and usefullness.

I know what it's like to fire LMG's that plant countless rounds in the same place over and over and understand why the GPMG's tripod mount for base defence has a rocker in it to give the weapon deviation, to stop 20 rounds at a time going into the same single enemy.

I'm sorry if other world forces have LMG's that are **** accuracy but I for one trained in circumstances where we were seperated from the snipers, who's duties didn't clash with ours much. Sure, the L85A1 was only good to about 600m and vague at 800m as compared to the rifles of yesteryear where you were trying to hit targets a mile away, but any sniper who announces himself within that range is dead meat to anyone with an L85 in their hands.

The only way to resolve the sniper issues in this game is to give them a fixed high resolution scope that means that the shortened maps in this game give them no reason to be anywhere near the main troops, should be confusing their vision when they get the tunnel vision of looking down a scope and seeing a target a mile away, not 100m away.

Post by **Rhino** » 2006-05-31 18:10

luizinhuu wrote:okay, sorry
really got pissed off with the "not gonna happen" answer

"not gonna happen" as in we are not going to scrap the support class from the mod

Post by **Wraith** » 2006-05-31 18:14

Well, the class is getting fixed. I don't know what else you guys want. We have speant a lot of time talking about fixes and removing and nerfing but when it comes down to it I think the key is to fix the prone spamming. The weopons are realistic as is. There is no need to tweak them. The need is in the prone delay.

SFA/**]V[E**/L · Post by **SFA/**]V[E**/L** » 2006-05-31 18:14

im agree with the thing that need to be fix, the support class, but not to the way of removing it.

luizinhuu · Post by **luizinhuu** » 2006-05-31 18:17

understood "not gonna happen" as in

hop_ic wrote:Fix it!

but high hopes on the fixing!

it must be hard code

jakobiweee · Post by **jakobiweee** » 2006-05-31 18:22

wtf u must have been crossing the line there 300m? i dont think so and besides they weapon are not good at aiming, if the target is 300m away then maybe 1 bullet will come close, you must have met a cheater!

Post by **Rhino** » 2006-05-31 18:27

jakobiweee wrote:wtf u must have been crossing the line there 300m? i dont think so and besides they weapon are not good at aiming, if the target is 300m away then maybe 1 bullet will come close, you must have met a cheater!

have you ever fired a SAW in real life? or a gun for that matter?

Burning Mustache · Post by **Burning Mustache** » 2006-05-31 18:44

'[R-DEV wrote:Wraith']Well, the class is getting fixed. I don't know what else you guys want. We have speant a lot of time talking about fixes and removing and nerfing but when it comes down to it I think the key is to fix the prone spamming. The weopons are realistic as is. There is no need to tweak them. The need is in the prone delay.

Listen to this man.

Major Ursa Norte · Post by **Major Ursa Norte** » 2006-05-31 18:54

I agree Rhino. The SAW is AWESOME. especially since I was indoctrinated with the old M60. The ONLY thing that makes support class weapons "inaccurate" is the operator. As an lmg gunner, you are taught to burst fire or search and traverse. These two are VERY different. Burst is used when you have eyes on the target. Search and traverse is used to flush out the bad guys from heavy cover. Even "suppression fire" is limited. Why? Because at that rate of fire, the dang barrel gets so hot that it actually begins to droop. Keep shooting and you will ruin the rifling and maybe even take the temper out of the steel.

I also want to agree with the point made about snipers vs. support. If you are dumb enough to be within 1000 yards of a support gunner as a sniper and you don't take him out FIRST, then you WILL get owned. This is as it should be.

I have fired the SAW and M60 on combat ranges with pop up targets at 400m. The sighting system on them both are just fine for man sized moving targets at that range. 600m + is a bit harder, but it can be done and done for effect.

Insta prone is a flaw in the system that everyone in the mod business is trying to correct so bitching about that isn't doing anyone any good. It will either get fixed or it will have to be lived with.

Bottom line. If you want to be a sniper, take out the big guns first OR sit way off and act like a real sniper.

=RvE=FuSiOn · Post by **=RvE=FuSiOn** » 2006-05-31 20:28

major if you have opperated the SAW, which i highly doubt but then humour me... You are saying its exaclty as it is in the game? no Recoil huh? and no muzzle flashes?
Makes u wonder...
Im thinking of changing my name to Colonel Klink so that i can make a claim of firing an Rpk-74 Lmg.
Funny thing is the Military personel in my squad seem to think otherwise about the support class from PR.
Peace

Eden · Post by **Eden** » 2006-05-31 20:51

Major Ursa Norte wrote:
I also want to agree with the point made about snipers vs. support. If you are dumb enough to be within 1000 yards of a support gunner as a sniper and you don't take him out FIRST, then you WILL get owned. This is as it should be.

Just to point out, its unlikely a sniper will ever win against support because the sniper rifles are so inaccurate. you have to lie down, aim, wait 3 seconds, fire then hope the game didn't decide to send your bullet 3m to the left. By that time the support gunner (standing) has fired off 10-20 rounds at you and killed you before you have even lined up your scope.

explain that

The support class just as the sniper class should take skill to use, but not in the form of random deviation.