Knives. Do we really need them?

Suggestions from our community members for PR:BF2. Read the stickies before posting.
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Psyko
Posts: 4466
Joined: 2008-01-03 13:34

Re: Knives. Do we really need them?

Post by Psyko »

[R-DEV]Chuc wrote:Alternate weapon functions like melee attacks are not possible as far as we know in BF2.
An idea would be to use right click to unsheath the blade from the scabbard, so that its in a deployed mode, then your free to use the slash move with left click after its ready. much like the lase projectile on SOFLAMs.

chuc, if its at all possible, please please please get rid of prone knify bullcrap, it does my freakin head in! :lol:
Celestial1
Posts: 1124
Joined: 2007-08-07 19:14

Re: Knives. Do we really need them?

Post by Celestial1 »

Psykogundam wrote:An idea would be to use right click to unsheath the blade from the scabbard, so that its in a deployed mode, then your free to use the slash move with left click after its ready. much like the lase projectile on SOFLAMs.

chuc, if its at all possible, please please please get rid of prone knify bullcrap, it does my freakin head in! :lol:
Last time I checked, I believe you could lase while not sighted into the soflams (just look at your feet, click, then right click. you should see the laze box).
Bringerof_D
Posts: 2142
Joined: 2007-11-16 04:43

Re: Knives. Do we really need them?

Post by Bringerof_D »

keep the knife as 1 hit KO =, IRL you can slash anyhow you want without any actual aiming. it's allready abd enough in game you have to actually have the guy in your screen's centre
Sgt.BountyOrig
Posts: 656
Joined: 2009-02-22 18:12

Re: Knives. Do we really need them?

Post by Sgt.BountyOrig »

Right click with knife to do a powerful stab?
7eveN
Posts: 131
Joined: 2007-12-28 15:27

Re: Knives. Do we really need them?

Post by 7eveN »

The knife saved by life so many times. I run out of ammo, i-m surrounded, take out my bayonet, wait for the enemy to come and look for me and just stab the *******. Also tactical wise it-s pretty good for some stealthy actions.
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Punkbuster
Posts: 879
Joined: 2008-10-24 23:12

Re: Knives. Do we really need them?

Post by Punkbuster »

Once I flanked a whole squad with a knife while my squad was shooting at them to distract them....
So know it can be very good sometimes!
Especially when you are in an enemy territory and you find an enemy RP and you want to destroy it without making noise...
In-game name: =[BF]= Rudy_PR
Arnoldio
Posts: 4210
Joined: 2008-07-22 15:04

Re: Knives. Do we really need them?

Post by Arnoldio »

And lets say you meet an enemy really close, and both of you waste a clip everywhere but eachother...then what? stare at eachother while waiting for the guns to reload?
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Orgies beat masturbation hands down. - Staker
ReadMenace
Posts: 2567
Joined: 2007-01-16 20:05

Re: Knives. Do we really need them?

Post by ReadMenace »

ChizNizzle wrote:And lets say you meet an enemy really close, and both of you waste a clip everywhere but eachother...then what? stare at eachother while waiting for the guns to reload?
No, because you should have 1-5 others nearby to take care of this silly lone wolf.

-REad
Dizakui
Posts: 195
Joined: 2008-12-23 17:55

Re: Knives. Do we really need them?

Post by Dizakui »

I personally like having a knife on me.
As insurgent I once managed to flank a position which was suppressing people, walk up the to LMG gunner, pull my knife out, hit him... Only for him to turn round, look at me, watch me hit him again and then shoot me. Made me laugh even though it diddn't work.
I prefer having a knife or bayonet with me even if I don't really use it too often, makes me feel safer. Just wish it worked all the time.
sakils2
Posts: 1374
Joined: 2007-07-14 23:15

Re: Knives. Do we really need them?

Post by sakils2 »

I'd rather see incendiary grenade disappear from all kits except rifleman specialist, officer, combat engineer. Thus we could have backup sights for scoped weapons (just remove one smoke grenade from the officer kit) and... do all soldiers carry incendiary grenades?

P.S. Maybe increase the incendiary grenades for those three classes.
Celestial1
Posts: 1124
Joined: 2007-08-07 19:14

Re: Knives. Do we really need them?

Post by Celestial1 »

sakils2 wrote:I'd rather see incendiary grenade disappear from all kits except rifleman specialist, officer, combat engineer. Thus we could have backup sights for scoped weapons (just remove one smoke grenade from the officer kit) and... do all soldiers carry incendiary grenades?

P.S. Maybe increase the incendiary grenades for those three classes.
In that same token, you could remove knives and incendiaries from certain kits.

This would mean that you can get backup sights on scoped rifles, as WELL as a deployed mode for certain weapons (like an M16 with a gripod, or something). (Not that I support these, as I am unsure of how they would affect gameplay and such, just saying that it is possible to have those all fully usable)



I agree with both being removed, though.

Knife is unnecessary in game for any and everything excluding hand-to-hand combat. However, hand-to-hand combat isn't exactly a normal occurance, and you should always have someone from your squad with you to assist in killing them even if you are out of ammo. If you can't kill an enemy without a knife, either you need to reload and aim better, or you need to start getting your buddies to shoot at them with you.

Incendiary work should be done by people who are experienced and have had the training to properly use an incendiary grenade. If that's everyone in the army, I'd still personally rather have it restricted to certain classes for reasons other than reality.
Herbiie
Posts: 2022
Joined: 2009-08-24 11:21

Re: Knives. Do we really need them?

Post by Herbiie »

I don't see why people are complaining about incendiaries - what do you replace them with? They are hardly used as it is, usually only for taking out an empty enemy truck or an enemy firebase. The knife/bayonet is there for realism - every single soldier has a knife or bayonet, and it's a good way of sneakily killing people as they rarely know what just happened. Get playing a jungle map such as Tad Sae then tell me you want knives removed - in Jungle maps it's used almost as much as your gun because you get so close it'd be a waste of ammo to shoot them. 1 hit kills are fine. It doesn't matter where in-game you hit them, in reality your character isn't going to run up to someone and stab them in the leg - they'll get them straight in the throat. From behind they'll slit it from the front just stab it. Enemy dead now quick get your gun out so his mates don't shoot you - or was he lone wolfing? If so then shame on him, and you have bragging rights.

The knife is brilliant, for e.g. earlier erm yesterday now, we were MEC and got into a firefight, cleverly 1 of them managed to flank us and take out all of our squad apart from me, and I was able to knife him in the back without his squad noticing and legging it while they were wondering wth just happened. if we didn't have knives - what would we replace them with? Pistol? What's the point when you have your gun... you want your noisey weapon and your stealthy weapon.
Celestial1
Posts: 1124
Joined: 2007-08-07 19:14

Re: Knives. Do we really need them?

Post by Celestial1 »

Herbiie wrote:I don't see why people are complaining about incendiaries[...]They are hardly used as it is
Answering your own question, you just didn't realize it.

If the incendiary is hardly used, why not reduce their spread a bit so that only an officer carries them, but perhaps carries multiples, so that they are still accessible... but now, you have a free slot in EVERY OTHER KIT in the game. If you get something useful to put in place of it, awesome.

If not, you can always keep it in until something is found. And that's one of the important parts of these arguments; having the ability to implement new elements for gameplay, even if it doesn't happen now.
The knife/bayonet is there for realism - every single soldier has a knife or bayonet, and it's a good way of sneakily killing people as they rarely know what just happened. Get playing a jungle map such as Tad Sae then tell me you want knives removed - in Jungle maps it's used almost as much as your gun because you get so close it'd be a waste of ammo to shoot them. 1 hit kills are fine. It doesn't matter where in-game you hit them, in reality your character isn't going to run up to someone and stab them in the leg - they'll get them straight in the throat. From behind they'll slit it from the front just stab it. Enemy dead now quick get your gun out so his mates don't shoot you - or was he lone wolfing? If so then shame on him, and you have bragging rights.
In an aspect of realism, a soldier probably wouldn't actually use a knife in hand-to-hand combat. Martial Arts would obviously be taught with use of the knife, but more often than not hand-to-hand combat would involve the soldier using body weight and skill to take down an opponent, rather than trying to immediately slit their necks. Many martial arts include techniques to get an opponent to the ground quickly and effectively, and I sure as all would be using one of those techniques and pointing my rifle barrel at the enemy on the ground before I bothered with pulling out my knife.

In another aspect of realism, a hand-to-hand fight is not likely to occur, due to the procedures of room clearing. A grenade is thrown in before they even get close to the enemy, which means that the enemy will be killed wounded or stun before they even enter the room. After that, they will breach and clear by filling in as many men into the room as they can, meaning that MULTIPLE rifles will be on the target at all times.

In an aspect of gameplay, a lone wolf can easily be disposed of in other manners. Namely, shooting him. If he's a lone wolf, that means he is ALONE. Which means that it isn't likely you are going to be stopped very quickly.

In another aspect of gameplay, most knife ambushes on maps such as OGT/Tad Sae/etc (Yes, I have done them, so I know myself) are done by hiding in long grass, waiting an opportunity and then going out to stab without any regard for safety. Often enough, a knife ambusher is met by multiple bullets after someone is killed, if the squad is working together. Instead, that same ambusher could have just waited for the same moment, but had his rifle out and quickly dispatched of 3 in the squad before there was much of a reaction.





Yes, knives are used in reality, (and so are incendiaries), but are generally there as a last line of defense rather than a proactive offense. And since you should always be with your squad, there is almost no need whatsoever to use a knife, since you should always have 5 other men in your squad pointing their rifles at the enemy.
Qaiex
Posts: 7279
Joined: 2009-02-28 21:05

Re: Knives. Do we really need them?

Post by Qaiex »

Alex6714 wrote:Well going thios route... Why not remove also grenades. They aren´t necesary too, seeing as the main objective isn´t to kill people and it just makes lonewolves better.

Rifles aswell, because you shouldn´t just be shooting poeple, you should be capping flags with teammates and flaking the enemy...

:roll:


Anyway, is there actually a reason to remove it? I can´t see any?

Note: I almost never use the knife for a few reasons, but that doesn´t mean I think it should go, in a few situations its useful.

Useful enough to warrant using one of the finite number of weapon slots on it?

The knife is used for killing rallies and firebases, thats it. Personally I feel firebases should be more easily overrun and knifing a radio shouldn't be enough to take them out, thermite or nothing but thats another story.
Anyway, since I started playing in February this year, I have not managed to kill more than 4 people with it, and all of those were completely unnecessary and on at least one occasion resulted in me getting shot, leaving me bleeding out.


I agree that a knife is good to have, but it definately is not worth the weapon slot it uses.
Airsoft
Retired PR Developer
Posts: 4713
Joined: 2007-09-20 00:53

Re: Knives. Do we really need them?

Post by Airsoft »

How we gonna have zombie battles without knives? :p
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Herbiie
Posts: 2022
Joined: 2009-08-24 11:21

Re: Knives. Do we really need them?

Post by Herbiie »

qaiex wrote: Anyway, since I started playing in February this year, I have not managed to kill more than 4 people with it, and all of those were completely unnecessary and on at least one occasion resulted in me getting shot, leaving me bleeding out.
This Month I have mad around 8 or 9 kills with my trusty knife / bayonet. Play a jungle map, hide in the undergrowth, then knife one of the group before throwing a grenade and pulling back. Get your whole squad doing this and you have one dead enemy team.

Also, usually when a British soldier at least goes into combat he has his bayonet attached, or should. Ok, he doesn't kill with it but it should still be there.

What I meant by hardly ever used was only for taking out fire bases and abandoned vehicles, and tbh if I was a SL I wouldn't want to have to be the one running up to a fire base to destroy it properly, I'd rather have my squad on a ridge or building covering one guy who sprints forward to take it out.
Celestial1
Posts: 1124
Joined: 2007-08-07 19:14

Re: Knives. Do we really need them?

Post by Celestial1 »

Herbiie wrote:What I meant by hardly ever used was only for taking out fire bases and abandoned vehicles, and tbh if I was a SL I wouldn't want to have to be the one running up to a fire base to destroy it properly, I'd rather have my squad on a ridge or building covering one guy who sprints forward to take it out.
Or, if you're smart, you'll move your squad up.

Firebases disable spawning once you get people in a large radius. From there, take out any baddies, walk up to the firebase and secure it.


It used to be that the method you described was the best way to take out FBs, but since the disabled spawning when enemies are near was implemented it's actually less effective than just moving up and disabling it completely, and safely taking it out at your discretion.
Qaiex
Posts: 7279
Joined: 2009-02-28 21:05

Re: Knives. Do we really need them?

Post by Qaiex »

My point was that unless you actually make an effort to use the knife, it doesn't happen, because 99.9% of the time it's disadvantageous to do so.
I feel the slot is better spent on something you actually benefit from using.
Tirak
Posts: 2022
Joined: 2008-05-11 00:35

Re: Knives. Do we really need them?

Post by Tirak »

qaiex wrote:My point was that unless you actually make an effort to use the knife, it doesn't happen, because 99.9% of the time it's disadvantageous to do so.
I feel the slot is better spent on something you actually benefit from using.
This of course will no doubt bring about the nigh hilarious situation where two people run out of ammo and are down to harsh language on mumble. :roll:

Knives simulate the close combat aspect of PR as we are not able to replicate Judo Throws, Karate Kicks and martial arts in general. You have your knife when you run out of ammo, so you can do stealth takedowns (or rather, as stealthy as you can in a game with VOIP still active while dead), and the practicle purpose of removing rallys and firebases without having to waste ammo or worse, having people take these things out at range by shooting them thus turning snipers into the ultimate anti structure.
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