The AT is ANTITANK! not ANTIPERSONAL!

Post by **Bob_Marley** » 2006-05-31 15:38

G.Drew wrote:also give the heavy AT this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoulder-L ... ult_Weapon
and have the light guy the preadator.
Also, give the heavy AT for MEC the RPg-7 and (possibly eryx)
give the PLA a AT weapon and have them with the eryx

I thought the 'heavy' AT guys were going to have guided systems, while the light ones would have unguided ones, so wont the MEC light AT guy be having the RPG-7?

And, when the RPG-7 does roll up, what kind of ammo will it be using? PG-7V? PG-7VL? PG-7VR *cough*thisone*cough*? And can we have the fragmentation and thermobaric warheads too?

G.Drew · Post by **G.Drew** » 2006-05-31 16:11

but the RPG-7 is not disposable, i was thinking of something along the lines of the LAW and MEC/PLA eqivelent the PLA could have the Eryx i suppose
so, ithink it should be this:
USMC
Heavy: SMAW :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoulder-L ... ult_Weapon
Light: Predator
MEC
Heavy: RPG-7
Light: Eryx (any other suggestions on this 1?)
PLA
Heavy: ???
Light: Eryx
UK
Heavy: javelin http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FGM-148_Javelin (hold on, this is an AMERICAN weapon!)
Light: NLAW http://www.army.mod.uk/equipment/pw/pw_law.htm
i think i have come to the conclusion that the disposable AT rockets are GUIDED, because this is realistic
(btw, look in the javelin link, its the weapon from War of the Worlds!)

Major Ursa Norte · Post by **Major Ursa Norte** » 2006-05-31 16:19

'[R-DEV wrote:Riki_Rude_BTYC']this makes me laugh, i cant beleive how big this thread has gotten, my simple arguement are ******** that use AT rockets on purpose to take out infantry. people are saying "well give him a rifle" if these people wanted to kill people with a rifle.... we have 5 other classes with that capability.

True, but they would NOT be able to kill armor. Plain and simple, the abuse seen in PRMM of the AT rockets being used against infantry stems from two facts:
1) vBF2 players who are new to PRMM and have not changed their tactics to be more inline with PRMM's intended style of gameplay.

2) Players that enjoy PRMM and try to play according to the mod's original intent, BUT have become utterly frustrated while trying to kill armor and only have an under powered peashooter as a PDW.

Case in point:

I was playing Steel Thunder as an AT. I was on the other side of the bridge from the advancing armor. I was behind cover, behind my squad and attempting to cripple/kill the advancing aromor. The other side was either in a vehicle or a sniper. After ketting killed a few times from a few different positions by the same sniper, I spotted him and took his butt out with a rocket. I then used my remaining rockets to clog up the bridge long enough for my team to advance and eventually capture the flag near ther power station.

What you call "********" may simply be folks using the ONLY tools available to them to help their team out the best way they can.

And before you start flaming me, I was the only member of my team that had the chance to take out the sniper. Everyone else was either pinned down or re-spawning. The other squad was attempting a flanking manuver and got help up by an APC in the woods behind the power station flag. I did what I did when I did it because delay would have let the bridge flag fall and push us back. It was a now or never call and I chose now.

G.Drew · Post by **G.Drew** » 2006-05-31 16:27

and believe it or not, i think ive found the British AA system:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Javelin_su ... ir_missile
believe it or not, also called Javelin!
Also, guess what the chinese have as an AT weapon:
http://www.sinodefence.com/army/individual/pf89.asp

Thunder · Post by **Thunder** » 2006-05-31 16:38

@ G.Drew

the russians have a rpg 22 which is simular to the LAW used by the US

RPG-22

i dont know how up to date this is
MBT LAW

Edit
havent you got the MEC light and heavy anti tank the wrong way round the rpg-7 is a light weapon

G.Drew · Post by **G.Drew** » 2006-05-31 16:47

i thought is wasnt disposable?
also, the british are using both LAW and NLAW
in fact, i think this will be the case for alot of the armies in bf2 will be using the LAW

G.Drew · Post by **G.Drew** » 2006-05-31 16:48

ok we need to make up a list again...
any suggestions?
also, thunder, the russians are using this:http://world.guns.ru/grenade/gl04-e.htm

G.Drew · Post by **G.Drew** » 2006-05-31 17:04

and heres another unguided AT weapon:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AT4
and another, a weapon similar to the MILAN:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AT-4_Spigot
also, heres some info on everything the PLA has:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s ... ed_Weapons

Post by **A.J.Sawyer** » 2006-05-31 19:45

Whoa, so many links

G.Drew · Post by **G.Drew** » 2006-05-31 21:29

...and so little time, lol

Thunder · Post by **Thunder** » 2006-06-01 10:45

does the light weapon have to be disposeble?

the rpg-7 and LAW are old weapons now probly now much use other than to hit unarmored targets and buildings, what anti tank weapons are used by the french or italians maybe the mec could use those?

is this the general thought on how the kits should broken up now
Light AT
rifle
Light AT weapon (unguided)

Heavy AT
pistol
MBT Anti tank weapon (guided)

G.Drew · Post by **G.Drew** » 2006-06-06 14:04

oh, btw guys the main AT weapon for the UK is either:
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/javelin/
or:
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/mbt_law/

Post by **Katarn** » 2006-06-06 17:13

Yes, G.Drew, we've done extensive research.

G.Drew · Post by **G.Drew** » 2006-06-06 17:17

so i guess these will be the light/heavy AT weapons

ghosty · Post by **ghosty** » 2006-06-06 20:09

twisted wrote:give the AT guy a personal defence weapon, likea m4, mp5 or pd90. good for up close work, and will prevent use of AT as a weapon vs infantry.

will also ensure that armour has a serious headache cause people will actually want to be AT more often.

I agree, taking away the assult rifle was just plain stupid, Every soldier carries some typ of rifle... You can only carry 2-rockets, when your out do you go back to base and leave your squad... hell no you drop it and pull out your M-4. GAME ON!!!!!!!

SK · Post by SK » 2006-06-06 21:49

Part of the problem stems from the fact that PR largely uses the game mechanics of BF2´s AT missiles. Those can easily be guided even while moving, over great distances.
This in itself is not realistic, guided AT missiles with the capabilities they have in BF2/PR generally
-can´t be fired quickly from the standing position.
-are too heavy to be carried around and used effectively/instantly by a single infantryman.
These would be the likes of Eryx/Javelin/Spike MR/Milan etc. They require at least a few seconds setup time.

IMHO it would be better to give the AT class weapons of the true manportable AT weapon class, like RPG-7, RPG-29, PzFst3, MBT-LAW etc. This way, the weapon couldn´t be used for sniping because it lacks guidance. Also, this would be more realistic than having a soldier running around with 30-40kg+ of ATGMs worth on his back, which he can use nearly instantly.

Oh yeah, I know no army who issues only pistols to their AT teams, think that should be changed also.

TobiasReaper · Post by **TobiasReaper** » 2006-06-06 22:22

ghosty wrote:You can only carry 2-rockets, when your out do you go back to base and leave your squad... hell no you drop it and pull out your M-4. GAME ON!!!!!!!

If my memory serves me well, you carry 3 rockets to start with (including the one in the launcher). And... no... of course you don't have to leave your squad once they are spent... in your squad, there is this friendly assault guy, who can give you these ammo bags...
sooo, if your squad stays in one spot, a single ammo pack can give you actually an insane amount of rockets. And if you have to move (more common) then you'll still get three refills from one assault guy. means if you are WITH YOUR SQUAD instead of lone-wolfing, you have 12 rockets to fire...

firing twelfe rockets takes quite some time, when you try to make every single one count...

and in the rare event that your squad is actually still alive after you've spent all the 12 rockets of the squad, you'r squad leader can still call in a supply drop....

Now I agree that an AT without an Assault guy backing him up is quite weak. but teamplay is the point of this mod, and assault + AT are just two people = very small team, who complement each other perfectly....

Oh yeah, I know no army who issues only pistols to their AT teams, think that should be changed also.

well the TEAM does not only include the AT guy himself. If I understood the people in the forum here correctly - then in AT teams using this heavy launchers that are moddeled in PR/BF2 the guy carring his launcher has just his launcher, they guy with the (single) backup rocket has a rifle.
Assault = guy with backup rocket + rifle

if anything, AT is vastly overpowered compared to the real thing - since the TEAM carries a whole load of rockets, instead of just two or three. (I would NOT change this though, for gameplay balance reasons)

ghosty · Post by **ghosty** » 2006-06-07 01:15

TobiasReaper wrote:If my memory serves me well, you carry 3 rockets to start with (including the one in the launcher). And... no... of course you don't have to leave your squad once they are spent... in your squad, there is this friendly assault guy, who can give you these ammo bags...
sooo, if your squad stays in one spot, a single ammo pack can give you actually an insane amount of rockets. And if you have to move (more common) then you'll still get three refills from one assault guy. means if you are WITH YOUR SQUAD instead of lone-wolfing, you have 12 rockets to fire...

firing twelfe rockets takes quite some time, when you try to make every single one count...

and in the rare event that your squad is actually still alive after you've spent all the 12 rockets of the squad, you'r squad leader can still call in a supply drop....

Now I agree that an AT without an Assault guy backing him up is quite weak. but teamplay is the point of this mod, and assault + AT are just two people = very small team, who complement each other perfectly....

well the TEAM does not only include the AT guy himself. If I understood the people in the forum here correctly - then in AT teams using this heavy launchers that are moddeled in PR/BF2 the guy carring his launcher has just his launcher, they guy with the (single) backup rocket has a rifle.
Assault = guy with backup rocket + rifle

if anything, AT is vastly overpowered compared to the real thing - since the TEAM carries a whole load of rockets, instead of just two or three. (I would NOT change this though, for gameplay balance reasons)

I dont think you understand, Im talking about realism...

APoutwest · Post by **APoutwest** » 2006-06-07 04:02

You could set it up so arming an AT rocket takes a long time and running arround with it would cause a large mobility decrease.

btw. First post

TobiasReaper · Post by **TobiasReaper** » 2006-06-07 07:30

ghosty wrote:I dont think you understand, Im talking about realism...

well, realistically, the guy carring the eryx should have non, or maximum one backup rocket, not two like now. Still no rifle. but the ammo-supplying player (who has a rifle) should also only have one backup rocket for him, not 9, like now...

at least that's what i infered from the informed posters around here.
this eryx stuff are not LIGHT anti tank weapons....