Weapon Power

[CanuckCommander]

no i think it has more to do with the fact tht nerf guns and water pistols have diff "deviations" than real firearms this mod is supposed to be "realistic" there is absolutly nothing realistic about how these weapons perform they are more like toys or throwing a frikin rock which i am also confident i could hit u with a rock at 2 frikin feet away

Well currently the weapons handling is a little extreme, on the bad side. Deviation is only a part of weapons handling that's causing the problem. Things such as slow scope in animations that prevent the weapon from firing until the animation finishes and the lack of visual indicators or animations to show how deviation affects your shot also contribute greatly to the loss of immersion in game when using weapons, creating a overall frustrating experience for some players.

[Kenny]

nothing realistic about how these weapons perform

I don't know for sure but the deviation is not meant represent the characteristics of the weapon or how it preforms it's meant to simulate the "solider".
Think about it if you had just ran a 1K or 2 with all that equipment on your back you may be a little unsteady, sure their trained soldiers but their still human it's going to have a physical strain on their body and muscles.
That's what I have always thought deviation was personally not the weapon but you the solider.

[KingIrish]

i have been playing pr since hell i dont know forever i am a member of =]H[= and consider myself pretty good at the game but recently the guns are just silly i mean if i was at 300 + yrds ok i might need to practice...but 10 feet away and dumping half a clip in single shots prone and miss c mon my 7 year old would tag u in real life evry shot i am aiming at them not above or below why is it tht it doesnt hit "deviation" sounds like a lame excuse anyone should hit you at these distances hell i have done better without aiming frustrating is an understatement hopping frikin mad is what i am

[Spec]

Well, then you know earlier versions. Was 0.7 deviation better? Ever since there is deviation, which is from 0.6 onwards, it has been tweaked with each release. It's never perfect, but better than laser rifles.

[KingIrish]

yes .7 was better alot better like i said my complaint is the close range misses...long range i chalk up to practice but at 10 feet really should be able to easily hit wht you are aiming at i never had this problem with pr until the .87 .86 was better even im tearing my hair out here is really got me steamed i dont mean to be disrespectful but i am at my wits end with this

[Conman51]

i thnik the deviation is fine for now, i just want bullets to do more damage

[talkinBEERmug]

CQB no sights is all about burst or full auto pull down(pull your mouse down as you fire), just like good old cs, I hit center screen even while moving.

As for the power its perfect, 1 well place shot or 3-4 bad shots will drop some one, I just wish they bring back head shots for all guns, I know since the deviation considered light ATM people feel the medic wont have anything to do, but come on you work hard for your head shots just to see a a medic smoke out and pick him up. At least bring back head shot for snipers.

[rampo]

IDK if there is another forum for this (if there is plz site) but in the game does each weapon have a different strength? If so can you list an order of the weapon strengths?

Example...

1- G3
2-M40
3-SVD
4-AK 47
5-AK-74
etc...

Strenght does not exist, there is only stopping power

[ma21212]

what should be done is if ur prone and u move then u have much less time to setle the gun than now. i mean if your layin on the floor and you move just an inch the hole thing has to reastart.

[Radarrat]

I would say that the 7.62 has a tendency to slice thru steel easier than the 5.56... you can see this when you shoot the AK vs the M4....and if you watch future weapons...
The only thing I would see to improve is its affect on helicopters...More damage especially thru the windsheild to the pilot.

but I am not so dissappointed with those weapons, I have seen alot of things shot with those weapons and stuff keeps on going...

What I am l little dissapponted with is the M82...A 50cal shell that was developed for killing lightly armored vehicles...not to mention what it does to people.
I should be able to shoot a helicopter with that and if hit in the right place....make that thing go down.
shooting a truck in the front should disable it...period...a 50 cal shell will go right thru the engine case....like butter..

do you think it would offset the balance of power if they were realistic?

[RHYS4190]

And the Le enfeild 303, rifle is unrealistic as well, in game it take 2 shot's to kill. This caliber bullet is way way more powerfull then the 7.62. This bullet is so powerfull it can go straight through a tree 9feet thick with out stoping.

So why is it so weak ingame?.

[Sidewinder Zulu]

And the Le enfeild 303, rifle is unrealistic as well, in game it take 2 shot's to kill. This caliber bullet is way way more powerfull then the 7.62. This bullet is so powerfull it can go straight through a tree 9feet thick with out stoping.

So why is it so weak ingame?.

Because then the BLUFOR would say "omg noobs teh Lee Enfield is teh pwnzor, stfu i h8 dis game!!one!!!111!!!"

And theoretically it could shoot through the armor of Strykers.
Which actually would be kinda stupid.

[RHYS4190]

Because then the BLUFOR would say "omg noobs teh Lee Enfield is teh pwnzor, stfu i h8 dis game!!one!!!111!!!"

And theoretically it could shoot through the armor of Strykers.
Which actually would be kinda stupid.

And i don't agree with nerfing one of the best rifle ever made for no good reason.

Game play wise fixing the 303 calibre would not hurt game play, it take a lot more then that to do any damage.

PS. you can push a pencil through the armour of a striker it that thin, so being able to pierce it with a 303 does not mean very much.

[AquaticPenguin]

And the Le enfeild 303, rifle is unrealistic as well, in game it take 2 shot's to kill. This caliber bullet is way way more powerfull then the 7.62. This bullet is so powerfull it can go straight through a tree 9feet thick with out stoping.

So why is it so weak ingame?.

.303 has about 1,000J more energy than 7.62, which is about 1/3 increase in energy. Trees are tough, and there is no way in hell that a bullet can penetrate through 9 feet of wood. Unless someone is hit in the central nervous system there is no reason they would instantly drop, and the small difference in energy is negligible since the rounds already penetrate entirely and will not expend all of their energy inside the person.

[Fockzhound]

.303 has about 1,000J more energy than 7.62, which is about 1/3 increase in energy. Trees are tough, and there is no way in hell that a bullet can penetrate through 9 feet of wood. Unless someone is hit in the central nervous system there is no reason they would instantly drop, and the small difference in energy is negligible since the rounds already penetrate entirely and will not expend all of their energy inside the person.

However, stopping power is related to bullet energy. More energy equals more shockwave regardless of mushrooming, (i think the technical term is cavitation, and is the damaged area adjacent to the bullet path) inside the body, creating a larger (possibly critical) damage area. Energy is maybe not so negligible.

[AquaticPenguin]

However, stopping power is related to bullet energy. More energy equals more shockwave regardless of mushrooming, (i think the technical term is cavitation, and is the damaged area adjacent to the bullet path) inside the body, creating a larger (possibly critical) damage area. Energy is maybe not so negligible.

Yes, although a larger shockwave will only happen if the bullet decelerates in the body faster, which is unlikely to happen. The bullet is also not much larger and moves at around the same speed as a 7.62

There have been studies into stopping power of bullets and many talk about temporary damage and permanent cavity created by the bullet entering the body. However the only effective means for a bullet to stop someone is if it destroys their central nervous system or damages their vital organs enough to cause massive hemorrage, therefore the positioning of the shot is more vital than the damage it does when it enters the body. A larger bullet will create a larger cavity, but it won't necessarily expend more energy as it goes through the body. More importantly if a bullet splinters a bone causing fragmentation it will cause more damage than the bullet itself.

I think bullet damages are pretty good currently, snipers can achieve better hit/kill rations by hitting vital organs, and all bullets cause you to bleed so I don't really see the issue.

[hiberNative]

this thread is an utopia for flawed, sourceless information. i'm pretty scared.

[Fockzhound]

Yes, although a larger shockwave will only happen if the bullet decelerates in the body faster, which is unlikely to happen. The bullet is also not much larger and moves at around the same speed as a 7.62

Apparently shockwave is actually more the function of the bullet speed, imparting a hydrostatic shockwave to the fluid-like flesh of the body, which creates damage adjacent along the axis of the bullet path. All I´m saying is that this may mean you could have more chance of incorporating a vital area with a higher velocity shot.

[AquaticPenguin]

For hiberNative

http://www.firearmstactical.com/pdf/fbi-hwfe.pdf

There's my source on some of this, it's a reproduced document evaluating choice of ammunition depending on damage of various bullets. My assumptions based on the 'shockwave' are on the fact that as it is, especially close range, large military rounds will penetrate through the body and exit, and a larger energy will not necessarily mean that the energy will be transfered inside the body. My sources on the weapons energy are wikipedia, and I'm also basing them on a bit of common sense. I personally don't see the damage as being an issue as it is currently, and with the state of snipers in-game it's not exactly hard to hit someone in the chest or head.

As for the 9ft of tree thing
YouTube - Hiram Maxim's machine-gun tree chopping demo! 470 Bullets!
There's a video of a maxim machine gun (which fired old british rifle rounds) taking 470 rounds to cut down a tree, which is perhaps 2ft thick at most. It takes quite a while of eating and chipping away to get the thing down. So I think it's a rather groundless claim to say that it will penetrate 9ft, especially since the .303 is an old rifle cartridge not dissimilar to the one that would have been used in that test.

Please feel free to tell me if I've made any mistakes with these sources, but these are my conclusions based on what I have read.

Apparently shockwave is actually more the function of the bullet speed, imparting a hydrostatic shockwave to the fluid-like flesh of the body, which creates damage adjacent along the axis of the bullet path. All I´m saying is that this may mean you could have more chance of incorporating a vital area with a higher velocity shot.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.303_British (sorry I'm quoting wikipedia I'll try and find another source)
Average velocity is around 800m/s

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7.62x51mm_NATO
Nato 7.62, around 840m/s, slightly higher but not a vast difference

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7.62x39mm
7.62x39mm the round used in AK47s, around 700m/s

The velocity of the bullets are not that different, and the rounds used in the g3 are higher velocity suggesting they should do more damage. Although admittedly I imagine the lower velocity of the Ak's round will mean that it will lose momentum faster and should perhaps have a faster damage drop off.

*Prepares for one of the military gurus to correct him*

edit: Just noticed this has become a little off topic. On a more related note, I think the rounds at the moment do a good amount of damage, and it pays to be accurate. I've found I can be about as effective with the 7.62 rifles as I can with the 5.56, generally because when I fire I don't aim to kill. I think people put too much emphasis on trying to pop off accurate fire and drop the enemy, and not enough on trying to blind the enemy and scare them off with firepower until you can get in nade range.

What I've found is that if when someone pokes their head round a corner they are confronted by a blanket of semi-accurate fire they don't try and fight back. But instead when they're confronted by the single man with an acog who's trying to fire off slow but accurate fire 100m away they can take the gamble and hope they kill them before they're hit (and if they're the one with the bigger bullet this is the case in which they'll generally win). So to put it simple, if you're not at the stage where the size of the bullet matters to you, you probably need to change your tactics.

[Night_Bringer]

IMO the bullet stopping power seems just fine in PR. Plus, if we get into true to life bullets and penetration, then we would need to call up the whole range of rounds, such as snub-nose, incendiary, raufoss rounds, and so on and so forth, and do the mathematics on their individual trajectories, flight patterns and penetration for X material until the cows came home.