Cobra/Apache enhancements

[0331SgtSpyUSMC]

I'm not trying to shoot you down on numbers presented lol I'm saying is that giving a one person a worthy game play and take it away from the entire team is not worth it imo. If every pilot knows that AA has a ceiling where it will not get locked on to him, you dont have to have to use 1 shot lased targets anymore as you will be able to hover over the city and take them out. All you need is coordinates.

[Zeno]

This is simply to upp the realistic matter of the game as of possibilities. This wouldnt destroy the game,

no it wouldnt upp the realistic matter of the game!

how realistic is a camera flying 500m infront of you chopper?

and why do you get so defensive? yes you have suggested something, but if nobody thinks its a good idea i dont think you should continue to shovel it up peoples faces,

its like going naked around in the street, even though you like to do it on a hot day, the other people might not be a "enthusiastic" about it.

i see this alot in the suggestion forum: people think they have the greatest idea evar for pr and starts telling about how 1337 this would be for PR and etc. and the moment somebody questions it they go all "300" and try to defend their suggestion to the last breath

i only seeing this suggestion benefitting your special needs and maybe 1-2 other people, not the rest of the community and teamplay of PR.

[nk87]

I'm not trying to shoot you down on numbers presented lol I'm saying is that giving a one person a worthy game play and take it away from the entire team is not worth it imo. If every pilot knows that AA has a ceiling where it will not get locked on to him, you dont have to have to use 1 shot lased targets anymore as you will be able to hover over the city and take them out. All you need is coordinates.

You clearly didnt read my entire reply... My point is, do you think its fair that a multi million dollar attack helicopter has the same view distance as a nearsighted grunt on the ground - If you see tracers, look at where the tracers and end shoot your freaking AA rocket that direction. Possibility is that the gunship will be down before they release what happened due to no lock on - this wouldnt take away the worthy gameplay of PR from anyone, it would grant gameplay to one part, and make it more realistic for both.

[nk87]

no it wouldnt upp the realistic matter of the game!

how realistic is a camera flying 500m infront of you chopper?

and why do you get so defensive? yes you have suggested something, but if nobody thinks its a good idea i dont think you should continue to shovel it up peoples faces,

its like going naked around in the street, even though you like to do it on a hot day, the other people might not be a "enthusiastic" about it.

i see this alot in the suggestion forum: people think they have the greatest idea evar for pr and starts telling about how 1337 this would be for PR and etc. and the moment somebody questions it they go all "300" and try to defend their suggestion to the last breath

i only seeing this suggestion benefitting your special needs and maybe 1-2 other people, not the rest of the community and teamplay of PR.

Thanks for sharing your constructive, yet immature, view on this. If people ask questions and set standards for the topic, I will reply. And for the trolling part of your reply, I choose to be the bigger man and keep my mouth shut. Good day.

[0331SgtSpyUSMC]

You clearly didnt read my entire reply... My point is, do you think its fair that a multi million dollar attack helicopter has the same view distance as a nearsighted grunt on the ground - If you see tracers, look at where the tracers and end shoot your freaking AA rocket that direction. Possibility is that the gunship will be down before they release what happened due to no lock on - this wouldnt take away the worthy gameplay of PR from anyone, it would grant gameplay to one part, and make it more realistic for both.

I rest my case here, if you don't get it you don't get it. I will not explain anymore.

[Alex6714]

Stinger missile is an extremely effective weapon for shooting down aircraft. The missile uses an infrared seeker to lock on to the heat in the engine's exhaust, and will hit nearly anything flying below 11,000 feet

Id like to see sources for that, cos everything I have seen points me to believing that is not true.

Certainly, handheld missiles have alot of downfalls, and as for the vehicle mounted ones, its going to depend on the defense suite of the aircfraft you are firing at.

[0331SgtSpyUSMC]

Actually 11000 feet was not correct its 10000. Witch is only 3.046 kilometers or about 2 miles and you are right as for the Hellfire missles. I believe the range of those is up to 5miles. My point was however not in range of weapons because you can go with that all day but the game play itself. You shouldn't tag something as "realistic" just to justify making it superior to anything on the map while giving everybody else disadvantage. FIM-92A Stinger Weapons System: RMP & Basic

[rampo]

I dunno... Seems like a pretty uselless suggestion to me... It's not like the cobra is a heavy bomber that will fly at high altitudes gunz blazing at pinpoint accuracy...

It's exactly like that

[Zeno]

Its just a way to get the freaking cloud visibility out of the way. But do you think my intention was for it to function as "wallhack"? God grow up!

You again took the numbers presented as I said not to shoot me down on. 1km would be fine also, just out of the view range of HAT/AA, even 100 meters more view distance would make an impact.

first you say its not wallhack and then you say you want the chopper to see further than the rest.. doesnt seem right to me.

and to quote some of your videos:

Doing some CAS gigs on muttrah city, didn't put all the "kill scenes" in the movie, but focused primarily on strafing runs.
-Tactics&Teamwork server.
-Pilot(both huey and cobra): nk87 - Gunner: TAW_CutthroatJake - Spotter: D. Busby.
-7 Vehicles, 35kills'ish and a few firebases brought down in the end of it, keept the cobra airbourne for 55 minutes, and didnt manage to get a second go, due to ticket-lack!

P.s I hate the new lockon!!! ...

A short montage from muttrah city on Tactical Gamer. Iam(nk87) piloting and |TG|Orpal is gunning. The first cobra was wasted instantly by another pilot team, and by the time it was up again, we only had 90 tickets left, fast game.. So the last 25 minutes we did what we could to even the score, even though we were far behind. When we get shot down there was less than 10 tickets left, so we did go in slightly recklessly after that APC - 42 kills was made during the movie.

To me it doesnt look like this is for realism sake. looks to me like just another tool to increase you killcount.

but hey, thats just my opinion. you have every right to not give shits about it and i wouldnt care, but hopefully you would learn to think what other feel about this suggestion instead of being so defencive and piss people off. think of something that will benefit the core values in pr: Teamplay and realism not fragging and being leet in a chopper.

[nk87]

I dunno... Seems like a pretty uselless suggestion to me... It's not like the cobra is a heavy bomber that will fly at high altitudes gunz blazing at pinpoint accuracy... So why give the view? Using the map to get an idea of what is where is enough and you will have to dive into view distance to shoot anyway... Hovering is pretty normal as well. If you know where the tank is, hide behind any cover possible, steady the heli, pop up, fire the hellfire and get the hell out. Since AA is no danger (you won't get cobra support as long as AA is active in the area or at least if I get a lock on while flying for CAS I retreat and tell friendlies to clear the AA if they want CAS) a short hover is not that big of a threat as long as you keep it short enough

I agree with you to some extend, but the thing is, this teamplay dream just aint happening. Too often when I fly choppers, transport or gunships, im called into some zone that is cleared out of enemies and theres not a two legged creature breathing in miles radius. When I get close I get fired up by techi's, AA's, rpgs, mg's - everything, and oh, the squad I was supposed to pickup is already dead and respawned and long gone forgot about me. - Its about giving the eyes the helo have a chance of being used. As of now, CAS is just up there somewhere in the white nothingness of the visual borders that the BF2 engine presents, and its a shame cause it could be so much more. But yeah, I understand your point, its just a lunatic idea to have to fly in there to actually find out if youre gonna get killed or not. It's playing russian roulette with a million dollar asset and lives of the crew onboard, <roleplay off> and having the chance of the entire team whining at you because you wasted 20 tickets.

[Alex6714]

Actually 11000 feet was not correct its 10000. Witch is only 3.046 kilometers or about 2 miles and you are right as for the Hellfire missles. I believe the range of those is up to 5miles. My point was however not in range of weapons because you can go with that all day but the game play itself. You shouldn't tag something as "realistic" just to justify making it superior to anything on the map while giving everybody else disadvantage. FIM-92A Stinger Weapons System: RMP & Basic

Yes but the stinger is not an all effective win button, and has many disadvantages against modern aircraft.

From what I remember the suppliers in the russian-afghan war gave it a 70% probablity, and the people who used it gave it less. And that was back then. Its not as simple as click dead.


Your other point, about neading teamwork to use the cobra is true, you do, now I am not saying his suggestion is the best, there are others, but making it usefull would not remove teamwork in any way at all, but the point is, in that case AA should also take a similar amout of teamworkto opperate. Seeing as there is normally about 600% at least more of it, with one click operation and ease of use. And thats only counting missile tracking based systems.

[nk87]

first you say its not wallhack and then you say you want the chopper to see further than the rest.. doesnt seem right to me.

and to quote some of your videos:





To me it doesnt look like this is for realism sake. looks to me like just another tool to increase you killcount.

but hey, thats just my opinion. you have every right to not give shits about it and i wouldnt care, but hopefully you would learn to think what other feel about this suggestion instead of being so defencive and piss people off. think of something that will benefit the core values in pr: Teamplay and realism not fragging and being leet in a chopper.

What are you on about? When I put theese movies up on forums people ask me what the score was, I give them the info before they ask.. Please if you dont have any constructive to add to this stay the heck away, if you want to flame me for my personal achievements, do it through PM's.

If you watched the video's, you will notice that i personally dont have any trouble mastering the helicopters - this is for the sake of the community, not me. Don't make it personal.

And the wallhack part, read all the posts again when youre cooled off. You misunderstood.

[0331SgtSpyUSMC]

Yes but the stinger is not an all effective win button, and has many disadvantages against modern aircraft.

From what I remember the suppliers in the russian-afghan war gave it a 70% probablity, and the people who used it gave it less. And that was back then. Its not as simple as click dead.


Your other point, about neading teamwork to use the cobra is true, you do, now I am not saying his suggestion is the best, there are others, but making it usefull would not remove teamwork in any way at all, but the point is, in that case AA should also take a similar amout of teamworkto opperate. Seeing as there is normally about 600% at least more of it, with one click operation and ease of use. And thats only counting missile tracking based systems.

As for the effectiveness of stinger missiles I cant tell you, I have never shot one nor was I shot at with one lol. I wouldn't go by the "people'" opinion about weapons effectiveness but instead by testing results. On the same note the missiles used back then have been getting upgrades as well, so its not missiles from the 80's era we talking about

[rampo]

As for the effectiveness of stinger missiles I cant tell you, I have never shot one nor was I shot at with one lol. I wouldn't go by the "people'" opinion about weapons effectiveness but instead by testing results.

Isn't the aircraft being fired at on test's usually a little drone flying straight or tilting slightly?

Im not an expert

[Alex6714]

To be honest the best tell of how they work is probably combat experience.

[0331SgtSpyUSMC]

Isn't the aircraft being fired at on test's usually a little drone flying straight or tilting slightly?

Im not an expert

Something to this matter http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trOlpA6UhnY

and yes the combat testing is better but only if you had a proper training

[Elektro]

OP this is a great suggestion ! Maybe if it was possible to put a camera in the middle of the map that the Helos could use to find targets. Remember attack helicopters in PR have to go very close to danger when giving CAS, and AAs can take them down straight away, that is one of the many reasons why the Apache has a 8km view distance

[DankE_SPB]

i will quote myself from another thread about MANPADs
imo MANPADs are the thing, which affects enemies tactics, so they have harder time in their job and cant just hover above your head without punish, but its far from "kills everything flying in their operation radius"
they were very deadly when they were introduced, but then tactics adopted, new regulations were issued so it became not that effective

they did shot it, but it wasn't very common thing
i.e. in 1988 only 2 planes were shot down by MANPADS, and 6 helicopters
here is a table about 1987, numbers on left- launches, on right-hits(completely destroyed or damaged)

info is from report of colonel Ivanchenko, 40th Air Army, listed in book Airwar in Afghanistan

Remember attack helicopters in PR have to go very close to danger when giving CAS, and AAs can take them down straight away, that is one of the many reasons why the Apache has a 8km view distance

aye, but remember to give realistic range for AA, which in case of Tunguska is 8-10km, Strela-10 - 5km

[Psyrus]

For me an attack helicopter should be a piece of I-win-machinery

Yeah, that's been pretty apparent since the first post, especially since it is not "attack chopper enhancements", but specifically the Bluforce arsenal.

Current incarnation is an excellent balance of power, fragility and forced teamwork, the last of which I believe is the most important aspect.