Commo Rose: What should preset messages be?

[sickly]

If I'm honest - I think some aspects of your idea are feasible (whether they're needed is another matter) - but the suggestion as a whole is far too complicated and would take a lot of time that the DEV team probably doesn't have.

Maybe, maybe not. No dev's posted anything here yet and I haven't asked. Everything having to do with BF2 takes work alas so you may have a point.

While we're being honest, I should say say that this is also about mods in general. It just so happens that due to the highly realistic nature of PR, direct voice communication plays a bigger role. Way I see it, PR is at the forefront of modding in BF2 (and even in general) so taking things further with the Commo Rose makes sense, so long as the workload doesn't interfere with other more important aspects of development.

Your reasons for having this implemented aren't really strong enough in my opinion - perhaps some people are too timid to chat over voip (Unfortunately the DEVs aren't councillers) or maybe don't want their voices recognised by high-tech software (??? lolwut) - but as I've said I don't think the demand for cool or in depth comma rose options is really that large.

Just my thoughts.

Well the those were more of additional reasons. There are timidity barriers sure, I would say the lack of clarity is a better reason. Personally, I don't use it because I tend to play late and my apartment's walls are thin--I have a deep voice that carries. That and I'm pretty comfortable using chat--very clear and stays on the screen for a bit; the presets just automate some of that.

As for the voice ID thing: I was thinking of recordings for traceability (matching a voice with an IP for example) and other malicious purposes. Hell some people just don't want to be identified for no other reason than they're uncomfortable with total strangers recognizing them and suppose you could argue that it's somewhat unethical to penalize them for that. But yeah, it's not a big deal.

I meant : commands that would benefit other squads, so you dont need to use mumble to talk to them, but can use those commands to do so.

Yep. Isn't that a given? Ideally, icons on the map would accompany a lot of the messages for better situational awareness. This is something you wouldn't be able to do with voice.

The thing I need the most is "Stop!/Wait!"

Whenever I request a APC or helicopter evac for my squad, and they leave some of my guys behind just because they don't read the chat. If you could say "Wait!" to the APC driver and he'd hold for a moment, I know my blood pressure would go down.

And the simple command "Stop!". Use it to tell your squad to cease fire. To tell your tank driver to stop. 3 grenades are enough, you don't need to throw more. Just stop.

These two commands are so simple and so useful, how they left those out in vBF2 is beyond me.

Yeah really. I've had that happen; the guy just takes off without checking and all you can do it type as you fume, while the guys on the ground desperately try running after the transport in vain. Funny to watch I I'll admit.

If you notice, the preset message function will actually adjust what messages are available and the type of message based on your situation. So if you're in a vehicle, you request repairs in place of a Medic (see vBF2). I'd say one of the biggest hurdles for the Commo Rose is effectively communicating with drivers/pilots; getting them to go where you want is a bloody pain.

That's a situation where voice works well. Maybe have a "Listen up!!!" message and then type the specifics using chat? Or maybe something situation-specific like, "Pilot, I'm sending you landing coordinates"...only less lame-sounding.


There was another cool thing OF2: when you pwn someone, your character automatically says, "Target Down." They just fall short of perfection by not specifying the target (e.g. "Officer eliminated" or something like that). One of the things that always peeved me in BF2 was that you couldn't confirm to people that you already took out the enemy, thus saving them the trip there (they usually get there only to see the corpse).

So, I'd like to know if automatic messages based on map events (like fragging an enemy player) is do-able. If not, then a button will have to do.

The reason I'm interested in the drop-down list for each field is because as it is, there are a very limited number of message buttons available and they have to be used for stuff essential to the mod, like build orders.

[eker676]

I didn't see this but a "Clear" button would be nice for clearing out rooms, checking alleys, streets.

[waldo_ii]

There are a few functions I would like to have, particularly the "GET SOME!" and "FOLLOW MY TRACERS!!" buttons.

[rampo]

There are a few functions I would like to have, particularly the "GET SOME!" and "FOLLOW MY TRACERS!!" buttons.

Just imagine of the spam whit ''get some''....

[Herbiie]

IF you're in a Tank then a "Forward!" or "Advance!", then "Stop!" or "Halt!", then "Reverse!" or "Back!", and maybe even "Left left left!" and "Right right right!" would be helpful to talk to your driver, as when you're on kashan and you have 3 tanks in your squad, everyone yelling stuff over VoiP can be confusing.

[rampo]

IF you're in a Tank then a "Forward!" or "Advance!", then "Stop!" or "Halt!", then "Reverse!" or "Back!", and maybe even "Left left left!" and "Right right right!" would be helpful to talk to your driver, as when you're on kashan and you have 3 tanks in your squad, everyone yelling stuff over VoiP can be confusing.

Mumble would fix all of this stuff in the suggestion yer know?
I hear its being trying to implent in PR for future versions.

[sickly]

IF you're in a Tank then a "Forward!" or "Advance!", then "Stop!" or "Halt!", then "Reverse!" or "Back!", and maybe even "Left left left!" and "Right right right!" would be helpful to talk to your driver, as when you're on kashan and you have 3 tanks in your squad, everyone yelling stuff over VoiP can be confusing.

I was thinking maybe the message could be made vehicle position-specific like, "Driver, forward." This variation of the "Forward/Advance" message only triggers when you are in a certain position of a vehicle and only the other players in the same vehicle will hear it.

Another variation would be, "Driver, you stupid tard, you left half my squad behind!!!"

Something I'd definitely like to see is directional messages. For example, I'm the gunner and I see a threat that the driver/pilot isn't aware of and without VOIP, there's no way of warning him except selecting 'Contact' over and over again, hoping he will figure it out. So for example, you want to inform others of something in a South-Westerly direction, you could select "South-West" from 8 possible compass directions.

Ideally, you could automate directional messages. An awesome combination of spotting, enemy ID, and direction would be, "Enemy Armour sighted bearing 238." Doubt it's possible to incorporate bearing into the message but a man can dream can't he?

The only thing even better would be adding the target's heading as well. God can you imagine, "Enemy chopper detected bearing 165, heading South-South-West." Oh baby.

What I've said above implies the use of the 'spotted' function, which brings me to another point: the spotted function was for the most part removed because it allowed players to random-spot to reveal otherwise hidden players. Now there's got to be a way of limiting this so that it only triggers when a) you're pointing right at the target, not in the general direction and b) you've been pointing at it for at least x seconds. This feature is sorely missed efficient way of informing other players of threats in PR and it'd be great to have it back. There's the issue of everyone on the team seeing the icon on their maps (assuming there is an icon) but that's a detail.


Btw, I should probably amend my statement of the OF2 communications interface being near-perfect; there are other games that also use a very intuitive drag-to order system (e.g. you point at a player then drag from the player to where you want that player to go and the player gets a waypoint on his map). Basically allows you to quickly give orders to specific players in an efficient and user-friendly manner.

Unfortunately, I think that kind of thing is quite far beyond what the BF2 engine will allow.

[jab16]

how about "Ajust fire" and "ajust course" also would be cool for a LZ map marker for the SL but thats kinda off topic.

[Gosu-Rizzle]

The "Spotted" function.
This feature is sorely missed efficient way of informing other players of threats in PR and it'd be great to have it back.

3 words: No, No, No. This is project reality-mod. Yes, like you say, it would be very efficient, but thats not a good thing. IRL you dont have a magic marker that gives your mates the exact location and type of an enemy. You need to TALK to each other, communicate. Thats teamwork, and thats what PR is really about for me. If you (for whatever reason that i dont understand) dont want to talk to your teammates, thats your problem. This game is pretty much made for players that help eachother and cooperate, and you do that best by talking.
All that being said, i wouldnt mind a few new commands for inter-squad communication. I would prefer if all players used Mumble, but until then we could use stuf like "Get down!" etc.

[Nick_Gunar]

There are so many messages you have brought which clearly obliged people to use VOIP intra-squad (that should be mandatory but not everybody can afford a mike) then mumble inter-squad (though, sometimes 2-3 guys are on, it depends really).

Leave as it is because if they do change some messages (add, delete, whatever) other people will complain that the changes are not realistic or are not a good choice, blablabla Sometimes when you are SL, and you see a contact or you get shot, it is hard to, 1) spot the exact location of the enemy, 2) click on the right mesage lol.

And to be honest, some messages are "obvious" for the players especially in PR although, sometimes, players don't follow them.

[sickly]

how about "Ajust fire" and "ajust course" also would be cool for a LZ map marker for the SL but thats kinda off topic.

The assumption is that the SL will communicate that he needs transport to the Commander and the Commander will in order one of the chopper pilots to go to where the squad is--that's assuming the pilot is in a squad (otherwise it gets difficult to communicate with the pilot using team VOIP or chat). The SL then uses his signal grenade to help the pilot find the exact spot once he's in the area.

Yes, an SL-placed pickup request/LZ icon on the map would definitely reduce the workload. Not sure if that's possible though--just look at the amount of trouble involved in getting the Commander markers to work. Would be interested to find out.

3 words: No, No, No. This is project reality-mod. Yes, like you say, it would be very efficient, but thats not a good thing. IRL you dont have a magic marker that gives your mates the exact location and type of an enemy. You need to TALK to each other, communicate. Thats teamwork, and thats what PR is really about for me. If you (for whatever reason that i dont understand) dont want to talk to your teammates, thats your problem. This game is pretty much made for players that help eachother and cooperate, and you do that best by talking.
All that being said, i wouldnt mind a few new commands for inter-squad communication. I would prefer if all players used Mumble, but until then we could use stuf like "Get down!" etc.

I would say that Operation Flashpoint 2 is at the forefront of tactical FPS realism, yet Codemasters opted to make the interface very user-friendly and intuitive so that tactically-oriented/experienced players wouldn't be alienated.

Where Project Reality is concerned, I don't see why more options in the Commo Rose would reduce teamwork. If anything, they'd increase it.

Attracting players to the mod is part of the development process; it's no good if only a small group of hardcore players are really into it. Situational awareness in vBF2 was over-the-top (revealing every player move, thus completely eliminating the element of surprise) but in PR it is non-existent at times (you have absolutely no clue who is where); this is because it depends on a lot of communication and cooperation among players--in most of the rounds I've played, you don't see that. If adding stuff to the CR deals with that, then this is definitely the way to go.

There are so many messages you have brought which clearly obliged people to use VOIP intra-squad (that should be mandatory but not everybody can afford a mike) then mumble inter-squad (though, sometimes 2-3 guys are on, it depends really).

Leave as it is because if they do change some messages (add, delete, whatever) other people will complain that the changes are not realistic or are not a good choice, blablabla Sometimes when you are SL, and you see a contact or you get shot, it is hard to, 1) spot the exact location of the enemy, 2) click on the right mesage lol.

And to be honest, some messages are "obvious" for the players especially in PR although, sometimes, players don't follow them.

I suppose with a lack of mini-map having stuff like spotted target icons doesn't really mean much; its unlikely people are going to be switching to their map constantly.

As for not having a mike, I don't think that's an issue because if you can afford a rig that can run PR without dying of lag, then you can afford a mike.

[RememberTheAlamo]

Microphones FTW!

[rofflesnlols]

[...]so long as the workload doesn't interfere with other more important aspects of development.

Unfortunately I think it might.

However practical and potentially useful your suggestion is (and I do genuinely think it could be for some), the fact of the matter remains that it's not a feature that would:

1. Drastically enhance the teamwork in-game.
2. Change the game play experience a significant amount.
3. Benefit the majority of players significantly.

I would say the lack of clarity is a better reason. Personally, I don't use it because I tend to play late and my apartment's walls are thin[...]

I totally understand your point, as clarity of speech can be an issue with some players in-game. However generally speaking I would say that the quality of people's Microphones isn't a major issue when playing; in my experience the majority of players active on VOIP are clear enough to work with.

The fact that you play late at night (along with many of us), however inconvenient it may be when wanting to use voip, is hard to use as a major reason for what I would imagine would be a heavy workload.

I must admit it would be nice to have such things implemented, like people have said "Wait for me!" would be nice, but then again why not use the "Hey! I need a lift!" Comma Rose. We have to be realistic about what would be top priority when trying to further such an ambitious project.

Think of it from a developers perspective - discourage the use of microphones (by proxy) with an elaborate pre-set list of cool/useful commands or just keep it simple with what we have in terms of commands and encourage voip/mumble? I'd go for the latter personally.

Perhaps we'll see a 'refinement' of the comma rose options in releases to come - who knows?

[sniperrocks]

Yeah I agree we should have some more, maybe have a spot and give compass degrees (in written text)
That would be helpful if the player doesn't want to use the mic

[T.Nightingale]

Go to audio options and enable "English voice overs". Whit this setting enabled, you always hear English voice overs, no matter what side you on.

Also lets you get killed pretty quick by not thinking the enemy is around.

[Shaihuluid]

Is this a disguised suggestion thread that the Devs have decided to not lock? I think so

[Total_Overkill]

Can we have an "Oh Shit" commo added?
For every kit... every vehicle... every position... ?
^_^

[Shaihuluid]

Can we have an "Oh Shit" commo added?
For every kit... every vehicle... every position... ?
^_^

I second that notion:

Code: Select all

 amaze your friends! Startle your enemies! tell off irritating squadleads! and 
don`t forget to stick it to the commander!

joking, of course.

[sickly]

Whoops, sorry didn't realize my thread still had a heartbeat (been away).

@rofflesnlols: Good points; even with workload aside, doesn't looks like there's much of a need among players.

@Shaihuluid: although technically it's an opinion thread, I suppose it's inevitable that it will take on characteristics of a suggestion thread, considering that this is the mod's forum. It was in part just for my own information, to gauge how more mature players like PR vets view the CR--I guess I got a little overly-enthusiastic about the potential, since it's an area that I am interested in.

[Herbiie]

For Insurgents: "Allah Akbar!"

It's common for people to shout it on all chat anyway