Make .50 cals WAYYY less effective. seriously.

[[=TC=]nuetron]

Alright. Ya, I see what you mean. Well I don't think the APC should explode in a fireball like it does- that's the kicker that got me questioning it.

[General Fuct]

I quite like this idea, do the same thing to the .50s as was done to the LMGs - Don't make them less accurate, but make them shake some more. Not sure on the realism of it, but it might stop some players from charging up to the front and then trying to snipe people 50m away with the .50.

Don't get me wrong a M2 on a remote weapon station will put the first two rounds dead on at close to 1km...the weapon is fairly accurate in small bursts, single shots even more so.

also those light armored vehicles unfortunately majority of them would not stand up to a sustained .50 cal attack, the Armour is just not thick in enough on majority of the vehicle (obviously plate thickness on different parts of the vehicle would chance penetration rates).

[hartbilt]

Final Word

The .50 caliber round is optimized for penetration at long ranges (about 875 yards, or 800 meters). For hard targets, .50 caliber penetration is affected by obliquity and range.

The .50 caliber round can penetrate all of the commonly found urban barriers except a sand-filled 55-gallon drum.

Continued and concentrated machine gun fire can breach most typical urban walls. Such fire cannot breach thick reinforced concrete structures or dense natural stone walls. Internal walls, partitions, plaster, floors, ceilings, common office furniture, home appliances, and bedding can be easily penetrated by .50 caliber rounds.

Number of rounds needed to penetrate a reinforced concrete wall at 25° obliquity.
Wall Thickness / 109 yd (100 m) Range / 219 yd (200 m) Range
2 ft (0.6 m) /300 rounds / 1,200 rounds
3 ft (0.9 m) /450 rounds / 1,800 rounds
4 ft (1.2 m) /600 rounds / 2,400 rounds


Penetration capabilities of a single .50 caliber M2 AP round fired from a 45-inch barrel.
Range / Armor Plate (homogeneous) / Armor Plate (face-hardened) Sand /Clay

219 yd (200 m) 1.0 in (25.4 mm) 0.9 in (22.9 mm) 14 in (355.6 mm) 28 in (711.2 mm)
656 yd (600 m) 0.7 in (17.8 mm) 0.5 in (12.7 mm) 12 in (304.8 mm) 27 in (685.8 mm)
1,640 yd (1,500 m) 0.3 in (7.6 mm) 0.2 in (5.1 mm) 6 in (152.4 mm) 21 in (533.4 mm)


Penetration capabilities of a single .50 caliber M2 Ball round fired from a 45-inch barrel.
Range / Sand / Clay / Concrete

219 yd (200 m) 14 in (355.6 mm) * 28 in (711.2 mm) * 2 in (50.8 mm)

656 yd (600 m) 12 in (304.8 mm)* 26 in (660.4 mm)* 1 in (25.4 mm)

1,640 yd (1,500 m) 6 in (152.4 mm)* 21 in (533.4 mm)* 1 in (25.4 mm)


source:
TM 43-0001-27: Army Ammunition Data Sheets For Small Caliber Ammunition.

[Rhino]

but there are also parts, where it will do nothing and just go through, so, since we cant have realistic mobility kill/damage values depending on material/importance of area, the system where it lasts longer but blows up in the end seems to be the only way

Ye we where talking about this in a meeting yesterday, main problem might be that we would possibly have to remodel all the cols of the vBF2 choppers etc from scratch which would take a bit to do.

nuetron;1281938']Alright. Ya, I see what you mean. Well I don't think the APC should explode in a fireball like it does- that's the kicker that got me questioning it.

We can only have one explosion effect for any type of vehicle/dest object for w/e destroys it. We can't unfortunately only have it blow up when it takes a large impact to its magazine etc

[alberto_di_gio]

We can only have one explosion effect for any type of vehicle/dest object for w/e destroys it. We can't unfortunately only have it blow up when it takes a large impact to its magazine etc

how about it does not explode at all if hit with .50. It may smokes out, stops moving and stay ruined there for good? Waiting either to be repaired or totally exploded by an rpg/chopper/c4 or what ever.

[AgentMongoose]

how about it does not explode at all if hit with .50. It may smokes out, stops moving and stay ruined there for good? Waiting either to be repaired or totally exploded by an rpg/chopper/c4 or what ever.

Sadly bf2 can't work that way

[killonsight95]

Sadly bf2 can't work that way

yeah it can... we've got it already, just keep it imbolilised so in other words its takes a lot of hit point to get it from imobile to destroyed? i dunno its sounds odd to me

[ComradeHX]

the armour in made of 5083 Aluminum and is 1.5 inches thick or about 3.8 cm
source:
APC M113

i'm pretty sure 50.cal bullets can penitrate 3.8 cm of 5083 aluminum armour

but i'm also sure that most helicopters use the same armour

+1

50 cal should pwn that armour(seriously, a decently sized chunk of steel vs. aluminum...).

[Outlawz7]

Sadly bf2 can't work that way

What he's talking about, can work, just remove the explosion effect and have the vehicle turn to wreck and start emitting smoke when its destroyed? Thought it would confuse most about if it's really destroyed at first.

[DeltaFart]

I feel the techis are too accurate teh power is fine, but I mean the techis are used by untrained indiviudals ona bouncy mount, on whatI would say is a very bad mounting for a 50 cal, since that thing will be bouncing all over
I mean I can sit on a hill in some insurgency map, and take down apaches with teh damn thing, and I've done it once or twice too
"The Apache is heavily armored on all sides. Some areas are also surrounded by Kevlar soft armor for extra protection. The cockpit is protected by layers of reinforced armor and bulletproof glass. According to Boeing, every part of the helicopter can survive 12.7-mm rounds, and vital engine and rotor components can withstand 23-mm fire."
HowStuffWorks "Apache Armor"

When I can render an apache ineffective by a guy, who IRL would be hopped up on something serious, untrained in properly shooting a 50 Caliber machine gun, I dont see how tyhey can be portrayed as being that accurate

[Hotrod525]

I feel the techis are too accurate teh power is fine, but I mean the techis are used by untrained indiviudals ona bouncy mount, on whatI would say is a very bad mounting for a 50 cal, since that thing will be bouncing all over
I mean I can sit on a hill in some insurgency map, and take down apaches with teh damn thing, and I've done it once or twice too
"The Apache is heavily armored on all sides. Some areas are also surrounded by Kevlar soft armor for extra protection. The cockpit is protected by layers of reinforced armor and bulletproof glass. According to Boeing, every part of the helicopter can survive 12.7-mm rounds, and vital engine and rotor components can withstand 23-mm fire."
HowStuffWorks "Apache Armor"

When I can render an apache ineffective by a guy, who IRL would be hopped up on something serious, untrained in properly shooting a 50 Caliber machine gun, I dont see how tyhey can be portrayed as being that accurate

Yeah i approve, AH64 would sustain a shit load of punishment, same as Chinook. But some other chopper like Little Bird will hit the dirt after a couple of round, so basicly, its a case by case situation

And for APC, M113 is not design to sustain .50 cal, i dont even known if Coyote [LAV25] would sustain it. Especialy since theyre is API .50 round...

[TheOldBreed]

all hail the .50 cal

in afghanistan (1980s) the muj were shooting down hinds with a 12.7mm, although from above.

[TheOldBreed]

adding to the Apache debate, in March 2003, when all those Apaches got the shit kicked out of them up near Baghdad, only 1 was brought down, the other 31 that were damaged made it back, despite what the Iraqis were throwing up in the sky. crazy sheeyit.

[Pariel]

I feel the techis are too accurate teh power is fine, but I mean the techis are used by untrained indiviudals ona bouncy mount, on whatI would say is a very bad mounting for a 50 cal, since that thing will be bouncing all over
I mean I can sit on a hill in some insurgency map, and take down apaches with teh damn thing, and I've done it once or twice too
"The Apache is heavily armored on all sides. Some areas are also surrounded by Kevlar soft armor for extra protection. The cockpit is protected by layers of reinforced armor and bulletproof glass. According to Boeing, every part of the helicopter can survive 12.7-mm rounds, and vital engine and rotor components can withstand 23-mm fire."
HowStuffWorks "Apache Armor"

When I can render an apache ineffective by a guy, who IRL would be hopped up on something serious, untrained in properly shooting a 50 Caliber machine gun, I dont see how tyhey can be portrayed as being that accurate

It can survive 12.7mm fire -- which is not the same as sustained 12.7mm fire. A couple dozen rounds will do serious damage to the helicopter, and aircraft are fragile things.

Furthermore, the armor requirements for most military aircraft are such that while the occupants may survive, often the aircraft will not. In game terms, having to return to base and be grounded for days or weeks due to damage is the same as being blown up.

Those Apaches TheOldBreed is talking about weren't taking anti-aircraft fire at distances under a kilometer. Distance is a significant factor even for bullets that large. Hence the reason Apaches use 30mm guns, rockets and missiles.

[DeltaFart]

I still feel drugged up insurgents shouldnt be as accurate as they are on the back of a post welded to a pick truck from the 60s

[hartbilt]

I still feel drugged up insurgents shouldnt be as accurate as they are on the back of a post welded to a pick truck from the 60s

I guess it would depend on their drug of choice, Khat or Opium. Pissed off on some khat, a man with a machine gun can do some damage.

[DeltaFart]

Still you have to consider the mount the guns on

[ReadMenace]

An Iraqi .50cal managed to penetrate a Bradley during Desert Storm. Undoubtedly a fluke.. But it is an aluminum hull.

-REad

[Rudd]

Here is a question, so for instances when a 50cal can go through, but doesn't always, can't we just put a new projectile that gets fired like 1/10 bullets that does go through things, but the rest dont to simulate the probabilities.

[killonsight95]

Rudd;1282878']Here is a question, so for instances when a 50cal can go through, but doesn't always, can't we just put a new projectile that gets fired like 1/10 bullets that does go through things, but the rest dont to simulate the probabilities.

the problem with that is, when shooting at infantry
what if you miss 9/10 times and hit the 1/10 times and you keep doing that and it blows up with 3 hits
what if you hit it alot but that 1/10 bullet always just seems to miss
???