|TG| TacticalGamer.com (North America)

[Brummy]

I left after we kicked your asses on Yamalia

[chrisweb89]

"It was the best of times, it was the worst of times..."

For those of you familiar with "A Tale of Two Cities", by Charles Dickens, you may see some parallels between the plight of the peasants under the aristocracy and the resulting revolution, and what seems to be happening on our server. This post is going to try to address a lot of issues that are boiling just under the surface and hopefully get all of us, players and admins, back on the same page, averting a "revolution" if you will.


What the state of the server appears to be:

• Inconsistent and difficult rules are hard to understand, and it seems as though our own admins don't know the rules.
• The admins are heavy-handed jerks with no tolerance for anything, even innocent joking around
• The apparent campaign to stomp out all-chat and taunting is driving people away
• The players are all admin wanna-bes who try to administer the server themselves and can't wait to report a player for the slightest violation
• Players skirt the edges of acceptable behavior, knowing that they are wrong in the spirit of the rules but not in the letter of the rules.
• The server is not nearly as full as it once was and it seems harder and harder to populate.
• Other servers remain full 24/7, even though we feel as though their standards of play and tactics are not up to par with our own.

This is probably most of the issues that are currently plaguing us, but most likely not all of them. However, it is comprehensive enough for now, and I think they should be addressed individually below.


Rules

The admins all met recently for about 5 hours on teamspeak to discuss several issues. Foremost in this discussion were the rules and our understanding of those rules. The results of that discussion were a revised set of rules that we hope are easier to understand and as such require fewer actual rules.

Here are the new rules for the PR server:

__________________________________________________

1. Behavior of players

All players must show respect for fellow players including avoidance of offensive language such as racism and strong sexual connotations in their in game communications (squad names, player names, chat, VOIP, mumble and teamspeak).


2. Strive for realism:

The goal of Project Reality is to mimic real life combat in as close of a manner as possible in a computer game while still keeping game play fun. There are some built in features in PR to encourage real world tactics such as suppression effects and deviation, but not everything can be restricted through the game. The following listed items are the most common unrealistic player behaviors, additional situations are dealt with on a case by case basis.

1. Players may not intentionally wound or kill themselves or teammates at any time.
2. Insurgency Game Mode Only: OpFor soldiers may engage in suicide attacks and occasionally kill or injure fellow teammates as collateral damage during attacks on BluFor.
3. Players may not intentionally ram other vehicles or structures to inflict damage.
4. Ground vehicles and boats may run over enemy infantry in the direction they are traveling, but may not reverse direction or turn around to do so.
5. Game engine exploits such as bunnyhopping or using map glitches for an advantage are prohibited.
6. All vehicles must be manned appropriately prior to leaving a main base.

3. Follow the chain of command

Commanders give orders to Squad Leaders, who give orders to the members of their squad. The only orders that players may refuse to follow are orders that violate any of the other rules. Squads are encouraged to work together voluntarily.

1. If a soldier disagrees with a command he may quickly inform the superior of additional information or suggest an alternative, but must comply with the final order.
2. Squads must have at least two players present to be locked.
3. Soldiers may not take vehicles that are in use by another squad, including parked vehicles near the squad, without permission from that squad.
4. If a commander is present they may assign vehicles or other assets to specific squads as needed. If no commander is present assets are first come, first serve.

4. Main Bases

Main bases are locations where a team has permanent spawns for infantry and/or vehicles, and are off limits to attack except as noted below. In the battles represented by Project Reality the main bases would actually be much farther from the fight, so the rules below are meant to address having a main base a short distance from the battle.

1. Main bases may not be entered or attacked and exits from the main may not be blocked, mined or camped. On maps where an objective that is in play that is also in close proximity to a main base the players attacking the objective may defend themselves.
2. Aircraft that have been engaged by enemy aircraft may be followed back to their main and engaged by that enemy aircraft until the fleeing craft has landed. The enemy aircraft must refrain from attacking any other vehicle, mounted weapon or infantry in the main while doing so.

__________________________________________________

We attempted to re-write the rules to make them easier to understand while maintaining the "TG" style of play and uphold the Primer. There are fewer rules, but I think you will find that even though there are fewer in number, they cover the same issues that our previous rules covered.

One major change should be noted: Insurgents may no longer attack the enemy main. No more bomb cars, no more ambushing the exits, no more mortars on the main. Mains in Insurgency are to be treated exactly as they are in AAS.

Why?

It's not because of realism. We understand that insurgent forces do attack BluFor encampments and forward operating bases.

This change was made in consideration of game play. The game is far more fun when both sides focus on their objectives instead of hunting for the easy kills or being subjected to constant attacks in their main bases. Insurgent forces should concentrate on protecting their caches and the BluFor should be allowed to concentrate on eliminating the caches. The playing field for the insurgent factions and the BluFor factions has been leveled considerably, and as such, we feel it is no longer necessary to allow insurgents to attack what would normally be a heavily defended base.

These rules will go into effect Saturday, March 13th, 2010. Please be familiar with them prior to this date. Admins will issue warnings at first if players are violating any of the newer, changed rules, but this grace period will be brief. Leniency will not be given to those players who should be familiar with the rules (ie. forum regulars and TG tag-wearing players).


Admins

This is a topic that will have a wide variety of opinion and input, and is probably pretty widely discussed away from the in-game chat. We don't begrudge anyone for it, because things have been pretty inconsistent and crazy at times.

Here's where we stand. Your current PR admins are as follows:

A.Wickens
Snooggums
TheGreatNardini
DrifterDave
DirtBoy*
Bullseye
McGann
Portable.Cougar
T-Man
DisposableHero

As the Executive Officer for PR, all of these guys report to me (dispo). In turn, I report to the Game Officer for BF2, FBMantis. If you have problems with any of the admins, report it up the chain via a pm or in the Contact Tactical Gamer Administration forum.

Each of us was asked to become an admin on the server due to reputation, both in-game and on the forums, and our standing in the community. Some of you may not agree, but the decision to add admins is agreed upon by the "higher ups" at TG and made with the best interest of the community in mind.

Each one of the gentlemen I listed above is a human being. Each of us has a different tolerance level for certain things on the server, as many of you have probably seen. Each of us has good days and each of us has bad days. Each of us puts in a lot of effort to make the PR community the best we can, be it in game, in the forums or behind the scenes. Each of us continues to pay for our SM status despite the countless hours we spend on the community; we receive nothing in return for our services except, hopefully, a better gaming community.

None of us are perfect, however. We make mistakes. While one of us may let one thing go (for instance, a player saying something in all-chat), another might not be as tolerant. While one of us might not jump into action when a player complains about getting run over, another might pause the server to lecture everyone about the virtues of trying to play realistically and the Primer. Our individual tolerances for different behaviors can, and does, impact each of you. Over time, this may build up some resentment among the community toward the admins as a whole or individually.

In response, I'd have to just repeat: None of us are perfect. We all try our best to address the issues as we see them in order of urgency. As I mentioned previously, we spent 5 hours together on teamspeak discussing this issue among others. What came out of that is a pledge for us to try our best to be consistent among ourselves, because we recognize that these inconsistencies have just lead to more problems.

We ask for your patience.

However, we also ask for something from each of you, and that is what follows.


Players

Another subject that came up during our meeting was a frank discussion about the community and the behavior of it's players. For the most part it was positive, but there are some glaring issues that really need to be addressed. They can be summarized by the following adage that is used for sports teams everywhere:

Players play. Coaches coach. Officials officiate. Parents cheer.

What does that mean?

It means that you need to do your job based on your role and not worry about what everyone else is doing in theirs. It's when one tries to intervene in what another is doing that problems start.

Players should not try to admin the server. Players should not start jumping on other players for "spam". Players should not become bullies on the server. Unfortunately, we see this far too often.

If there is someone violating the rules or causing issues that disrupt the server, by all means, use the !reporting system to bring those players to the attention of the admins. If an admin asks for help in trying to investigate or resolve an issue, by all means provide them with the help if you can. However, do not play back-seat admin. Do not second-guess admin decisions or offer your opinion on admin decisions. If you disagree or see something differently, post about it in the CAA thread. Don't initiate a huge argument in chat that is most likely only going to aggravate the admins and quite possibly result in further action being taken.

On the forums, it is ok to disagree in a mature manner with someone, even an admin, on a topic. What is not ok is to try to be a moderator when you're not one. Having a mature discussion is one thing, playing moderator or admin when you're not is something entirely different.

So, the admins are asking that everyone just focus on their role, their job and not try to do someone else's job for them. It's pretty simple.

Players play. Admins admin.


Another issue: Players who know the rules use them to their advantage to gain advantage over other players, forgetting entirely about the Primer.

We see this all the time. Players positioning themselves at the borders of being acceptable to get an easy kill. Players who use the rules regarding assets to take assets from another squad instead of using common decency. The list goes on and on and on.

It is time for it to end. It is time to rethink about what this community stands for and your alignment with those beliefs. If you can't stick to the Primer and play the right way then it is time to move on. I can tell you that the admins will be cracking down on this. You have been warned.


Let's talk about the talk

Two of the reasons we have two team channels for mumble is to avoid having enemies taunt the opposing team when in close proximity and to encourage using mumble to talk to nearby friendlies without worrying about enemies hearing in the same manner as using the BF2 VOIP for squad or commander communications. We'd like the same logic to carry over to the all-chat channel.

Taunting is immature, so when you get that great shot on a moving chopper feel free to let your squad or team know, but there is no need to point out your success to the opposing chopper. Good-natured teasing of players on the other team is one thing, taunting is something entirely different. The problem is, in all-chat, no one can interpret the tone of what is meant, it is just black and white text with no intonation, verbal or physical cues behind it that we humans have learned to read over eons of evolution.

As a result, the admins have been cracking down on this to try to keep TG as the mature place to play and to stop arguments from starting or escalating. The success of this has been arguable. Let's just leave it at this: Try your best to keep your excitement about downing the attack chopper out of all-chat. Put it into team chat. If you hit the wrong key, fine. Just don't try to make a habit out of it and more importantly, police yourself. We're all grown-up enough that we shouldn't get our feelings crushed because the guy that shot us down is letting us know about it in all-chat. Ignore him and he'll go away. If things get to be a problem then I guess the admins will have to step in, but we're making an effort to just ignore it and hopefully everyone can respect our wishes for the server.

The same goes with all-chat. Typing in global seems to cause a lot of outrage on the server. There are players who do use chat to communicate with their teammates and those communications are quickly lost in the constantly scrolling stream of text, so don't make it worse on your teammates and friends by adding unnecessary comments about the map, the mod, the weapons, the vehicles, the weather or whatever else. There are forums for a reason and they should be used appropriately. Again, the admins are not going to be chat police, but we will stop those that are abusing it over and over.

For your part, the player, we're telling you to stop trying to play chat police also. Do not take it upon yourself to start berating other players for talking in all-talk. The only result of this will be arguments that escalate and leaving players with a bad impression of who we are. Let the admins do their job.

Players play. Admins admin.

The bottom line: Try your best to stay out of global. The admins will take the necessary steps for those that abuse global (or team or squad) and truly spam it. Otherwise, let's all just play the game. If you're confused about the rules regarding chat or taunting, please review them. You'll notice that there isn't a rule that stops anyone from talking in global or having some harmless fun. There is a rule about treating others with respect and being mature. Admins will act to warn or remove players who act against either of those directives.


Server population and TG in the PR community

The server population issues are what they are. Lower player numbers aren't directly the result of any one thing but instead a combination of many, most of which have been addressed above or at least alluded to. Other factors, such as the supporting member kick, also contribute to dwindling player numbers during prime euro time every day. One thing I would ask is that when players complain of people being kicked and show some ignorance about the sm kick script, we politely - politely - explain it to them, and preferably over voip rather than chat if at all possible. Being rude to someone who honestly doesn't understand the system only compounds the issue and further alienates that player toward TG. Again, let's show some common decency and respect, and take the high road when players become belligerent over the sm kick.

We've mentioned this before, but what happens on TG reverberates throughout the PR community at large pretty quickly, both the good and the bad. Honestly, a lot of what has been happening here over the past months has been bad. If we can all work really hard to address the issues listed above, and also the countless others that have eluded this post, then I think things can turn around pretty quickly. However, our fate rests in our own hands. Each of us, as individuals, must try to do better if we are to succeed as a group. Our chain is only as strong as it's weakest link, so we must all strive to change our behaviors that are detrimental to the server and the community and help one another make TG better for everyone, even if we have to swallow some of our pride in doing so. In the long run, we'll all be better off because of it.

Signed,
Your PR admin team

Just some rule changes and information from dispo on the TG forums that you may want to know about.

[d1sp0sabl3H3r0]

The following rules go into effect at midnight tonight (0000 GMT Saturday, March 13th).

__________________________________________

1. Behavior of players

All players must show respect for fellow players including avoidance of offensive language such as racism and strong sexual connotations in their in game communications (squad names, player names, chat, VOIP, mumble and teamspeak).


2. Strive for realism:

The goal of Project Reality is to mimic real life combat in as close of a manner as possible in a computer game while still keeping game play fun. There are some built in features in PR to encourage real world tactics such as suppression effects and deviation, but not everything can be restricted through the game. The following listed items are the most common unrealistic player behaviors, additional situations are dealt with on a case by case basis.

1. Players may not intentionally wound or kill themselves or teammates at any time.
2. Insurgency Game Mode Only: OpFor soldiers may engage in suicide attacks and occasionally kill or injure fellow teammates as collateral damage during attacks on BluFor.
3. Players may not intentionally ram other vehicles or structures to inflict damage.
4. Ground vehicles and boats may run over enemy infantry in the direction they are traveling, but may not reverse direction or turn around to do so.
5. Game engine exploits such as bunnyhopping or using map glitches for an advantage are prohibited.
6. All vehicles must be manned appropriately prior to leaving a main base.

3. Follow the chain of command

Commanders give orders to Squad Leaders, who give orders to the members of their squad. The only orders that players may refuse to follow are orders that violate any of the other rules. Squads are encouraged to work together voluntarily.

1. If a soldier disagrees with a command he may quickly inform the superior of additional information or suggest an alternative, but must comply with the final order.
2. Squads must have at least two players present to be locked.
3. Soldiers may not take vehicles that are in use by another squad, including parked vehicles near the squad, without permission from that squad.
4. If a commander is present they may assign vehicles or other assets to specific squads as needed. If no commander is present assets are first come, first serve.

4. Main Bases

Main bases are locations where a team has permanent spawns for infantry and/or vehicles, and are off limits to attack except as noted below. In the battles represented by Project Reality the main bases would actually be much farther from the fight, so the rules below are meant to address having a main base a short distance from the battle.

1. Main bases may not be entered or attacked and exits from the main may not be blocked, mined or camped. On maps where an objective that is in play that is also in close proximity to a main base the players attacking the objective may defend themselves.
2. Aircraft that have been engaged by enemy aircraft may be followed back to their main and engaged by that enemy aircraft until the fleeing craft has landed. The enemy aircraft must refrain from attacking any other vehicle, mounted weapon or infantry in the main while doing so.

__________________________________________

** Please note: On insurgent maps, the OpFor will no longer be allowed to attack the BluFor main (including area attack). We are changing this rule not because of realism but because we would like to encourage a more organized defense of caches and better team-play on the insurgent teams. Each team is to focus on their objectives, not farming kills.

If there are any questions, please contact me or any of the other PR admins at TacticalGamer.com.

[hiberNative]

d. Ground vehicles and boats may run over enemy infantry in the direction they are traveling, but may not reverse direction or turn around to do so.

ah, thanks for clearing that up.

[snooggums]

I realise this is a bit random and was a few years ago

Thank you for your timely feedback!

[d1sp0sabl3H3r0]

I realise this is a bit random and was a few years ago but I was once banned form TG for saying "well that wasn't very tactical" after seeing a humvee get driven into a full black hawk destroying both assets in the US main on Kashan....
I had just joined and that was the first thing I saw after spawning in.
Can't say I have ever been back to see if the ban is still there as after that I had no interest in playing there.
I'm sure thats not the norm to ban people for saying that with no warnings, there wasn't a reason given either..just "Banning [bD] Bahlye".
I was surprised to say the least .

Just out of curiosity I looked up your ban to see what happened.

Guess what? Couldn't find you.

Probably a SM (supporting member) kick. Doesn't really matter I guess - just wanted to point out the old "There are two sides to every story" thing, even when there isn't really a story.

[hx.bjoffe]

Is there anyone that hasn't thunk they were banned from TG when getting the very first "excessive TK" message?
It's a confusing matter, and rely on individuals to do some effort to figure stuff out on their own.

[=HOG=Nelsonc0]

2. Strive for realism:



4. Main Bases

Main bases are locations where a team has permanent spawns for infantry and/or vehicles, and are off limits to attack except as noted below. In the battles represented by Project Reality the main bases would actually be much farther from the fight, so the rules below are meant to address having a main base a short distance from the battle.

1. Main bases may not be entered or attacked and exits from the main may not be blocked, mined or camped. On maps where an objective that is in play that is also in close proximity to a main base the players attacking the objective may defend themselves.
2. Aircraft that have been engaged by enemy aircraft may be followed back to their main and engaged by that enemy aircraft until the fleeing craft has landed. The enemy aircraft must refrain from attacking any other vehicle, mounted weapon or infantry in the main while doing so.

__________________________________________

** Please note: On insurgent maps, the OpFor will no longer be allowed to attack the BluFor main (including area attack). We are changing this rule not because of realism but because we would like to encourage a more organized defense of caches and better team-play on the insurgent teams. Each team is to focus on their objectives, not farming kills.

If there are any questions, please contact me or any of the other PR admins at TacticalGamer.com.

Do you think in real life bases don't get attacked? The most effective and tacticly planned missions often include attacking bases, look at Pearl Harbor if that isn't a main base I don't know what is. I just point this out because I love the hipocracy in PR. We want it to be like real life, unless it effects our game play.

[snooggums]

** Please note: On insurgent maps, the OpFor will no longer be allowed to attack the BluFor main (including area attack). We are changing this rule not because of realism but because we would like to encourage a more organized defense of caches and better team-play on the insurgent teams. Each team is to focus on their objectives, not farming kills.

Do you think in real life bases don't get attacked? The most effective and tacticly planned missions often include attacking bases, look at Pearl Harbor if that isn't a main base I don't know what is. I just point this out because I love the hipocracy in PR. We want it to be like real life, unless it effects our game play.

Um, you even quoted the explanation that this was not a rule change based on realism, but instead for game play, just like how the medic has been kept in PR despite being unrealistic.

[d1sp0sabl3H3r0]

Do you think in real life bases don't get attacked? The most effective and tacticly planned missions often include attacking bases, look at Pearl Harbor if that isn't a main base I don't know what is. I just point this out because I love the hipocracy in PR. We want it to be like real life, unless it effects our game play.

The hypocrisy in PR and main bases is simply a function of real estate and manpower. I doubt that you'll find two airfields controlled by opposing forces within 4km of one another in reality with operating aircraft.

The same for the manpower: Leaving main bases, with all of the expensive hardware located inside, completely undefended is utterly unrealistic. Take Lashkar for example: Here you have a FOB with the overgrowth cleared within 100m (to provide clear LOS and firing lines), yet the Taliban players routinely approach the hesco barriers. I understand the lack of a Dome of Death is a bug, but bugs are part of the online world, not the real world. We could also cite the fact that the British main on this map occupies the low ground while surrounded by high ground that is controlled by the enemy. Realistic? Not exactly. We could cite plenty of other examples on about every PR map where the realism is just blown out the window.

What this leaves us are choices: We can either artificially control portions of the battlefield through rules and administrative actions for the purpose of game-play, trying to have some balance and get players on both sides to focus on their objectives (regardless of game mode, attacking the enemy main is never one of those objectives) or we could let chaos rule on our servers and erode the game-play in Project Reality to the point that it becomes Vanilla without the short spawn times. I'll choose the first option, as I assume most of the PR population would, too.

[d1sp0sabl3H3r0]

Please note the sticky at the top of this forum:

Just a quick note to everyone:

The Project Reality forums are not to be used as a platform for users to rant/debate being kicked or banned from game servers.

If you are banned for not following a servers rules or server administrators orders and would like to protest or express your feelings on the matter, do so on the corresponding clans/squads website, not here.

This will not be tolerated and can result in your Project Reality forum account being banned.

If Syconaz wishes to appeal he can speak for himself and do it in the proper place, which is on the Contact an Admin forum at TacticalGamer.com.

[d1sp0sabl3H3r0]

Apparently you two can't read.

If you want to appeal, come to our forums and appeal. If your only intent is to argue your side of the story on this forum, I strongly urge you to read the sticky and heed it's words.

We do not discuss bans in public forums.

[Syconaz]

Apparently you two can't read.

If you want to appeal, come to our forums and appeal. If your only intent is to argue your side of the story on this forum, I strongly urge you to read the sticky and heed it's words.

We do not discuss bans in public forums.

I'm sorry i was typing up as u posted this. I will make sure to post on your forums.

[Portable.Cougar]

deleted

[Farks]

TG is my favorite PR server, but there seems to be lots of favourism of the blufor teams. I've observed that the blufor almost always have lots of TG-guys and other good, well known players on their side, while opfor have maybe two or three strong PR players and leaders if they're lucky. Mumble confirms this, as the blufor channel is always far more populated. Yesterday on Karbala, I counted the US channel to have 15+ players while the insurgent channel only had 4 players in it (including me). And that's just one occasion.

On another note, I really applaud you for the no insurgency baserape rule.

[d1sp0sabl3H3r0]

Thanks Farks.

Personally, I enjoy playing as insurgent/Taliban, but I really enjoy defending objectives, so maybe that's why. Oh. My love for the AK might have something to do with it as well.

I've been away from PR for a few weeks though, so not sure how the team balance is shaping up on the server. We'll keep an eye on it.

[snooggums]

We are going to be running a password event today, everyone is welcome to join but must follow the directions as outlined in the announcement post. Do not give this password out, direct anyone interested to the announcement post so they are aware of the requirements.

[arisaka99]

Well am I the only one unimpressed with TG? I was kicked for being squadless after I was kicked from my squad (I lost a sniper rifle that I captured. And I wasn't even spawned in (And yes I'm sure it was done manually). I noticed a large amount favoritism towards certain (special, special) players and new people are usually disrespected ( I sure know I was when I started, I used an older comp that lagged alot and had trouble killing enemies standing right in front of me) so I mostly hung out on other servers. I was warned for typing F******* and bypassing the language filter (All I here is fuck fuck fuck fucking fuck in mumble though). So obviously some people can say whatever the hell they feel like.

P.S. All players must show respect for fellow players including avoidance of offensive language such as racism and strong sexual connotations in their in game communications (squad names, player names, chat, VOIP, mumble and teamspeak). (yeah right, my friend was called a Mexican nigger in mumble)