Comprehensive Feedback of The Deployable TOW

[Wo0Do0]

I'm surprised at how overpowered people find the TOWs... are your snipers/inf too busy reconning the hills in H8 or something to lend a hand to keep people off them? Tonight on beirut we [as IDF] had pushed the russians to docks and they had bunkered down well with a firebase. They had a TOW that overlooked the hills to the south and had killed an unknowing M113 (me ) earlier. After evaluating our options, we contacted the sniper (ReconAus) over teamspeak and he took care of that TOW after moving into position. We also had the option of artillery but that would've been overkill for a mere 3 squads against a tank & 2 squads on our team. Our tank simply held position behind a hill until the sniper had taken care of the TOW (and to be honest, an auto rifle or marksman could've done the same thing) and then as the infantry lined the hill, the tank rolled down to secure the entrance. Simple as that.

The TOW has little to no protection to the occupant and in our experience a single infantry can keep a TOW down or occupied long enough for another to kill it... it just takes that pesky thing called teamwork. Of course, there are some factors that certainly could look at adjustment, such as the reload speed and ammo count. Since the thing can be destroyed and rebuilt quite quickly I believe a lower ammo count can be justified, as well as a longer reload to keep the TOW thinking about his highest priority target "Yes I could shoot the logi truck, but is a bradley going to round the corner in the next minute?".

The splash damage can be reduced because IMO that makes no difference, all I see it used on is vehicles and the occasional last ditch effort to kill the troop that is shooting at him... not this constant 'TOW vs inf' spam that seems to happen elsewhere and is supposedly a huge issue.

Regarding the helicopter issue: The only time I've seen choppers go down by TOW is -
1) When they hover there like idiots
2) When they fly directly towards or away from the emplacement with no jinking. That makes it far too easy, a tank can shoot you down in those situations...

If you do get shot down by a TOW flying full speed while perpendicular to it, I'd say that's pretty bad luck but hey what do I know... it's not like I've spent a lot of time in choppers or anything [/sarcasm].

Honestly though... nerf them, don't nerf them... I don't really care. We survived as inf in PR for 3 years without AT emplacements, it's not like they've suddenly become the only way to kill armour, we can always just readjust. It was nice to be able to defend an area properly for once though against both tanks and inf without having to deprive the guys on assault of the HAT kits.

Anyway! That's my 2c

No our little protection? Last time I remembered while playing on God-Cannon map (Qwai River), we used bushmaster rounds on a guy sitting on a tow, after we tried 7.65m on him, and he managed to take us out.

Have you tried using armor in .9? It sounds like you're more of an infantry man, there is nothing wrong with that. But please see it more in a broader perspective.

[Psyrus]

" A tank killing a full squad with one shot isn't fair either, let's nerf that too?" Its a tank.

Well at the same time... it's a TOW... designed to kill tanks, and it seems to do that very well

No our little protection? Last time I remembered while playing on God-Cannon map (Qwai River), we used bushmaster rounds on a guy sitting on a tow, after we tried 7.65m on him, and he managed to take us out.

Have you tried using armor in .9? It sounds like you're more of an infantry man, there is nothing wrong with that. But please see it more in a broader perspective.

The TOW has sandbags that are less than 1ft high, so basically protect the gunner's shins! From 360 degrees (terrain permitting) he can be shot off, although admittedly when he looks right at the shooter, the TOW emplacement does obscure more of his body. I do indeed use armour [0.917 included] but I am not very proficient at it, I tend to leave it to the professionals except for maps like Kashan, Jabal, Muttrah and Beirut. You can trust me when I say that I have indeed been killed by these pesky TOWs on multiple occasions, but... as you say I'm an infantry man so I know how low the % chance is that the team would have the firebase up there, be organized enough to make a TOW and actually defend with it. I haven't really ever felt robbed in armour being killed by a TOW.

As I said before, I totally don't mind the reload time being doubled and the ammo count reduced, they're logical in making the players use the TOW as intended... but all this 'click delay', one per map, none per <4km maps, none per insurgency, deviation?!?, ticket values... I think it's overkill for something that isn't really that big of an issue to the overall game. Just like the backpeddled edge-of-map firebase rule which tried to fix something that wasn't broken .

[Wo0Do0]

Well at the same time... it's a TOW... designed to kill tanks, and it seems to do that very well

The TOW has sandbags that are less than 1ft high, so basically protect the gunner's shins! From 360 degrees (terrain permitting) he can be shot off, although admittedly when he looks right at the shooter, the TOW emplacement does obscure more of his body. I do indeed use armour [0.917 included] but I am not very proficient at it, I tend to leave it to the professionals except for maps like Kashan, Jabal, Muttrah and Beirut. You can trust me when I say that I have indeed been killed by these pesky TOWs on multiple occasions, but... as you say I'm an infantry man so I know how low the % chance is that the team would have the firebase up there, be organized enough to make a TOW and actually defend with it. I haven't really ever felt robbed in armour being killed by a TOW.

As I said before, I totally don't mind the reload time being doubled and the ammo count reduced, they're logical in making the players use the TOW as intended... but all this 'click delay', one per map, none per <4km maps, none per insurgency, deviation?!?, ticket values... I think it's overkill for something that isn't really that big of an issue to the overall game. Just like the backpeddled edge-of-map firebase rule which tried to fix something that wasn't broken .

It kills moving tanks, helicopters, infantry, apcs, anything that moves.

[Psyrus]

It kills moving tanks, helicopters, infantry, apcs, anything that moves.

Yeah... it's a TOW missile

[maarit]

i think that there should be tow at every fob BUT....
much less ammo,less zoom and 3 crates needed.

[FoxtrotFaulkner22]

TOW's are already "nerfed", because you can only have two on the map. You are very exposed when manning one. The reload time is long enough that people know they have a window of time when you can't do anything. I don't think that they are too much.

[Pluizert]

If you dont know where the TOW is, the team lacks communication. 2nd get a good sniper on the TOW area and no-one will get in the AA/AT assets...

I like this new asset for infantry! Now armor has to be affraid of infantry who are teamworking. I can remember earlier games where armor was always owning the infantry. As there was no countermeassure for them. Like usual all HAT's were taken...

[AaronFraher]

I like this new asset for infantry! Now armor has to be affraid of infantry who are teamworking.

There is no teamwork required to destroy all of the other sides armour with a TOW. All it takes is a two man squad to build a useless FOB and set up a TOW.

I can remember earlier games where armor was always owning the infantry. As there was no countermeassure for them. Like usual all HAT's were taken...

There is a countermeasure. Its called a HAT. The only difference now is that the guys who would run off with the HAT kits are now running off with trucks and building TOW's. Armour always had to be cautious of infantry working together, because if they were truly working together they would have some form of AT, and use it to destroy the armour.

[Eddie Baker]

In reality, if the missile leaves the FOV of the flare sensor, it will self-destruct..

Never heard that before. Source?

[Hitman.2.5]

I always had a really hard time in VBF with the heli launched wire guided missiles, I assume that was a TOW.

your assumption would be wrong, PR's Cobra has AGM-114 Hellfires (laser guided missile where as a TOW, wire guided) just like the Cobra in VBF except PR has a better User interface.

As for turn speed it should turn as fast as the man behind it can turn the thing, since its on a slew and on a fixed point I assume it will be pretty fast.

[Wo0Do0]

Yeah... it's a TOW missile

and look at how long it took him to set it up and maneuver, even with a stationary target

[Fess|3-5|]

Get a Sniper

Right, because the people who take sniper kits are all about teamwork, and just love it when you demand they move from their super awesome perch to help you out. They also love it when they get into position, the TOW sees them, and kills them because it doesn't have to worry about deviation and has better zoom.

They're easy to kill
At medium to close range, and with no deviation, yes, the guy is vulnerable. But at long range, they are almost impossible, at least with a vehicle. I'm an armor whore. Or former armor whore. I don't bother with TOW's up now, since it's no longer a fair fight. Anyway, The low profile of the TOW at range makes it almost impossible to take out with a vehicle. Tank shells need to hit the launcher perfectly, since their is very little base, in order to take it out, and same with APC guns and coax. The problem is, those weapons all have deviation, and the TOW doesn't. I've gotten the jump on a TOW before, fired 15 rounds of HE at it trying to kill gunner, switched to coax, only to see shots go all around him. As soon as he noticed the tracers, he turned towards me making himself an even smaller target, and then fired his missile. There was literally nothing I could do to kill him, even though he is a soft target that I had a full 10 seconds advantage on. That was when I swore off Armor.

Like I said, the ONLY map that is still fair is Kashan, because for whatever reason the base of the tow sticks out usually, so Tank's can hit that.

[Hitman.2.5]

well if the tow has no deviation and the TOW gets deviation "I want the tank to be changed too so you have to let your barrel rest because the tank has little deviation too, Oh an I want the turret speed slower too so that its not overpowered and when heat shells hit can they tickle any infantry with blooDY FEATHERS!"

However if the tow gets deviation which in RL it has little just like a tank in Rl and in game then what is the point of it, this seems to me like more of a Player based problem and as people like to say here "players are hardcoded" and if that person wishes to TOW insurgents then fine its not a war crime and it give the victim more of an incentive to sneak past it or up to it and K'NIF'E the guy in the back or shoot him, think of it as a puzzle. IF there is a squad who want to make LUP's (my preferred way of calling the FOB) but want to defend the LUP then the tow is good to use against "Gary" and I dont care if the 50. can do the job it doesn't have a 360 slew like the TOW and one hit destruction, They happen to TOW a cache BOO' bloody' Hoo, Congratz to the Missile'eer good Intel would of got it the shot and a quick easy take down of the Cache, which can come in handy if they are low on tickets.

TBH if your on the Ins and you care about a precious "KDR" then they are simply playing the wrong game
(Honestly this is not pointed at any one in particular)

[Psyrus]

They're easy to kill
At medium to close range, and with no deviation, yes, the guy is vulnerable. But at long range, they are almost impossible, at least with a vehicle. I'm an armor whore. Or former armor whore. I don't bother with TOW's up now, since it's no longer a fair fight.

In the same way an APC doesn't charge a HAT head on, or a jeep an RPG, or a helicopter an anti-air cannon or a squad an HMG... why should a tank try to take on the TOW? You never try to 1 on 1 your counter, you'll just end up losing and frustrated.

Infantry are a huge hassle to TOWs, as TOWs are a huge hassle to armour. You see where I'm going with this, right?

[Fess|3-5|]

In the same way an APC doesn't charge a HAT head on, or a jeep an RPG, or a helicopter an anti-air cannon or a squad an HMG... why should a tank try to take on the TOW? You never try to 1 on 1 your counter, you'll just end up losing and frustrated.

Infantry are a huge hassle to TOWs, as TOWs are a huge hassle to armour. You see where I'm going with this, right?

You assume that I was charging head on. The particular situation I'm thinking of I was to the TOW's 3 o'clock, undetected. TOW was on a rooftop in Muttrah, maybe 600 meters away. Should have been an easy kill with Coax, but deviation from rounds completely missed the guy, even though crosshairs were on him. Started firing AP, then HE in hopes 1 would hit and kill him. No joy. I fired for a solid 20 seconds on him before he followed tracers back to me, and guided a TOW in. There was literally nothing I could have done to take it out. This situation has happened multiple times.

Anyway, the TOW SHOULD be a counter for Armor. I understand when it is, and it does an excellent job at the role (except on Kashan, in which Tanks seem to have a fair chance against them). However the problem is when something non-armored, namely an infantry squad, tries to neutralize the TOW. If you review the first post, I list all of the desirable features and abilities on the emplaced weapon, that make it very easy to take out multiple guys at any range. If you have never been TOW sniped as an infantryman, or seen it done you're a liar. The capabilities of the weapon may be realistic as they are in game, but that doesn't make it 'fun' to play with.

[Hunt3r]

The answer is to catch them while they reload. Close with them. Guided missiles are progressively harder to get good shots with at close range, and you just got unlucky.

We use Javelins against infantry IRL all the time, so why are you complaining about the fact that big guided missiles are nice for killing infantry?

[Rudd]

Yeah... it's a TOW missile

thats interesting, could someone who actually knows explain what he's doing and why its not 'point, click, die' like in PR?

[Uthric]

it looks like there out doing live training to me

[Trooper909]

thats interesting, could someone who actually knows explain what he's doing and why its not 'point, click, die' like in PR?

I assume if a real tank was heading for them all the checks in that vid would go out the window.

[Lange]

I say just lower the splash damage, and make it so TOW sniping infantry isn't viable as I think thats the biggest problem with the TOW now and the most frustrating annoying and unrealistic, its anti-vehicle properties are good as they are in my eyes, other than maybe the reload time needs adjustment.