Give Useable Sights to Door Gunners on Helicopters.

[Wo0Do0]

Perhaps this have been brought up before, but nonetheless I did not find on the already suggested list.

Being able to give door gunners on transport helicopters iron-sight view enables it to server it's role more effectively, to extract and insert troops with reasonable protection.

[Infantry1242]

Im not a modder or a skinner or anything like that,but i know it can only fit on so many weapons,like it can fit on a PKM one but not a vulcan

[boilerrat]

Im not a modder or a skinner or anything like that,but i know it can only fit on so many weapons,like it can fit on a PKM one but not a vulcan

That may be true, but I'm quite sure sights on a weapon do not count as a weapon.

[Imchicken1]

Yeah, i find it kind of silly when im a door gunner on a Mi-17 and cant use the iron sights i can clearly see. Being able to use them would really help more, rather than shooting off a couple rounds to see where the center (or where you're going to be hitting) is.

[Dev1200]

Im not a modder or a skinner or anything like that,but i know it can only fit on so many weapons,like it can fit on a PKM one but not a vulcan

That's completely false. What do you think the blackhawk has?


Also, I agree. Why wouldn't you be able to give sights on the door gun?

[Conman51]

i heard it was hard coded

[FuzzySquirrel]

i heard it was hard coded

You can use the .50 Cal Sights on the Humvee can you not? Same code afaik, just applying it to a different weapon.

[pfhatoa]

It would be nice. I have yet to hit anything with that gun. However if that thing becomes effective in fighting I forsee that it's role as troop transport will be a memory.

[lucky.BOY]

Actually the question here is if you can rasonably use gun sights on door guns in reality. And it is a question for a military advisor.

[Nosferatu]

Yes, you can. If you ever played ArmA 2 you could notice door mount and rear mount for PKT machine gun on Russian Mi-8MTV3, all equipped with sights. If gunners use PKM instead of PKT they remove those sights.

It's realistic to have and to use sights on door machine gun mounts, their effectiveness is questionable though. Unrealistic thing is using 12.7mm machine guns on Mi-8/17, stock choppers aren't supposed to carry 12.7mm machine guns in door mounts. Custom upgrades of machine gun mounts in the field are possible but it's a rare thing. Most of the times it's like this:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/10/An_MI-17_helicopter_door_gunner_from_the_Afghan_National_Army_Air_Corps.jpg/418px-An_MI-17_helicopter_door_gunner_from_the_Afghan_National_Army_Air_Corps.jpg

[Wo0Do0]

[quote=""'[R-DEV"]Nosferatu;1355552']Yes, you can. If you ever played ArmA 2 you could notice door mount and rear mount for PKT machine gun on Russian Mi-8MTV3, all equipped with sights. If gunners use PKM instead of PKT they remove those sights.

It's realistic to have and to use sights on door machine gun mounts, their effectiveness is questionable though. Unrealistic thing is using 12.7mm machine guns on Mi-8/17, stock choppers aren't supposed to carry 12.7mm machine guns in door mounts. Custom upgrades of machine gun mounts in the field are possible but it's a rare thing. Most of the times it's like this:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/10/An_MI-17_helicopter_door_gunner_from_the_Afghan_National_Army_Air_Corps.jpg/418px-An_MI-17_helicopter_door_gunner_from_the_Afghan_National_Army_Air_Corps.jpg[/quote]

He speaks the truth, on the UH-1 Hueys we simply deployed Twin M60 LMG's on the sides, Yet I am somewhat clueless about the Russian helicopter armaments.

[quote="Infantry1242""]Im not a modder or a skinner or anything like that,but i know it can only fit on so many weapons,like it can fit on a PKM one but not a vulcan[/quote]

This is merely a picture, do not consider the 2-m60's as the topic of my suggestion.

It would be nice. I have yet to hit anything with that gun. However if that thing becomes effective in fighting I forsee that it's role as troop transport will be a memory.

While the chopper is moving at a certain speed with varied altitudes, I believe to accurately land those rounds on a target would seem harder than that while aiming from a moving Humvie while traversing on a flat surface.

The primary use of the iron sights for this situation is to suppress enemy targets while the chopper prepares landing, so that the friendly troops has more feasible opportunity to enter.

[samogon100500]

Looks like vietnam war photo!r u really think about M60 uses today?I think how use M240 as GMPG!

[Eddie Baker]

This is what a former Marine Huey crew chief had to say about this subject

Yeah, the Gau-17 does have a sight, and I suppose that you "could" use it.We never did though for a couple of reasons. When you focus in on that sight, you are cutting down your situational awarness of EVERYTHING ELSE around you. So not only do you not notice the other 5 guys on the rooftop to your left, but the other helicopter in your flight also. What if you start shooting backwards, your pilot suddenly makes a sharp turn, and now you're firing rounds across the nose of your buddy? Also, the sights were made for range calculations. They actually want Marines to do geometry in their heads while preparing to shoot, aquiring the target, scanning for other hostiles and all that good stuff. Simple math is hard enough for us in a classroom much less anywhere else

We just lined up the gun how we thought it should be and pulled the trigger. Sounds a little bit inaccurate I know, and it is at first. But that's why we train and train and train. After that first round goes downrange, then it's just as simple as walking the tracers on target. Yes, the tracers are how we shoot.

Here's something to tell you how worthless the sights are. When you have an external fuel bag stuffed in the back corner of a Huey, you don't fit back there very well. When you do manage to make it back there (fuel in bag is 1/2 gone, you fold down the retaining straps and make yourself a "seat") it's hard to move from there. You can still see everything, but moving your body is a little bit hard. You shoot the gun with one hand then. When shooting and swinging the gun from full foreward to full aft, you start out with one hand, transfer to 2 hands for the middle, then to your other hand when facing full aft.

Conclusion: Sights = worthless Tracers = priceless

[Wo0Do0]

Looks like vietnam war photo!r u really think about M60 uses today?I think how use M240 as GMPG!

The reason I put a vietnam Huey is because we still operate Hueys in the US Marines, what ever still works will still works in PR.

[Wo0Do0]

This is what a former Marine Huey crew chief had to say about this subject

Eddie, perhaps this would work in real life, when your arms and eyes are attached to the gun, but in PR, where we have a screen and a mouse, I would suppose this wouldn't be as easy. The perception of depth and distance is a lot more realistic in reality, but in PR with a monitor in front of you and mouse to control your gun with, I highly doubt that we can shoot with the same efficiency as those door gunners you speak of.

[Priby]

Eddie, perhaps this would work in real life, when your arms and eyes are attached to the gun, but in PR, where we have a screen and a mouse, I would suppose this wouldn't be as easy. The perception of depth and distance is a lot more realistic in reality, but in PR with a monitor in front of you and mouse to control your gun with, I highly doubt that we can shoot with the same efficiency as those door gunners you speak of.

tbh i think its a lot easier to hit a target in PR than in RL. You can always be sure that the bullets will land in the middle of the screen. And youre not affected by other things like vibrations, exhaustion, etc.

[Rudd]

I suspect, though I have no idea, that this issue will be addressed when the appropriate weapons are made

The Making of a Beast - Project Reality Forums

[jerkzilla]

tbh i think its a lot easier to hit a target in PR than in RL. You can always be sure that the bullets will land in the middle of the screen. And youre not affected by other things like vibrations, exhaustion, etc.

Yep, and finding the middle of the screen isn't at all hard. Long as you don't focus on some small spot all the time and keep the corners in view, you can easily get used to finding the center with reasonable precision (like, half a centimeter). And like Eddie Baker said, there's also tracers.

[Hotrod525]

by the way there is no iron sight on a M134D Vulcan, they use tracers, and ANPEQ2 for night ops.

[Wo0Do0]

tbh i think its a lot easier to hit a target in PR than in RL. You can always be sure that the bullets will land in the middle of the screen. And youre not affected by other things like vibrations, exhaustion, etc.

Unless you place a marker in the middle of your screen, you're focus will slightly deviate from the middle of the screen. Nonetheless, I believe my point was that having the gun in your hands is different than using a mouse and a monitor.