Sniper Kit Discussion - Removal?

[BlackwaterSaxon]

A sniper currently is like a pot of gold in-game. Everyone rushes the sniper and it's like it's a holy kit to some certain people. Sniper squads are often exposing themselves to the enemy and often they are just being useless.

Like I said, it is not a drastic gameplay change, but by removing the sniper kit you prevent unrealistic and tardy behaviour that especially occurs with the sniper kit.

Surely it's better to keep those tards in their own 'speshul' sniper squads, and why does it matter if a sniper team is exposing themselves to the enemy? unless you're a part of the squad?

I just don't understand why it would make such a difference, you'll have to be specific.

[Brummy]

Surely it's better to keep those tards in their own 'speshul' sniper squads, and why does it matter if a sniper team is exposing themselves to the enemy? unless you're a part of the squad?

I just don't understand why it would make such a difference, you'll have to be specific.

Of course it isn't better to keep those tards in their special squads. Project Reality aims for a balance between gameplay and realism.

The gameplay that is aimed for is teamwork. Put these players in infantry squads, let them learn them see what PR truly is, and hopefully they shall grow into good PR players and thus being way more useful. If not, then they will probably move on to the other sniper game.

What does it matter that a sniper squad exposes itself to the enemy? Well, frankly, I'd like my team to at least try and work together. Sometimes it's bad SLs or tardy players, but somehow this tardy, lonewolfing behaviour always occurs with the sniper kit.

[BlackwaterSaxon]

The gameplay that is aimed for is teamwork. Put these players in infantry squads, let them learn them see what PR truly is, and hopefully they shall grow into good PR players and thus being way more useful. If not, then they will probably move on to the other sniper game.

Forcing people to play the game a certain way is exactly what is so restricting about this game, as bad as that sounds, there are a fair number of people who enjoy using the sniper kit for its intended purpose, if it's removed, then the choices for people are limited further, and for what, to weed out lonewolfers? Lonewolfing occurs on every server and with most assets/kits, the sniper kit however is the only kit you can really get away with it though.

Lonewolfers who don't have a sniper kit usually end up in an infantry squad, using up assets for those squads and then leaving in order to make their own squad, what do you suggest doing for that? You cannot tell people how to play, and there will always be people out there that will want to lonewolf and be generally anti-social, let them have their sniper class if you feel it is so insignificant, better them using up assets such as the sniper kit than usinmg up infantry squads limited kits.

What does it matter that a sniper squad exposes itself to the enemy? Well, frankly, I'd like my team to at least try and work together. Sometimes it's bad SLs or tardy players, but somehow this tardy, lonewolfing behaviour always occurs with the sniper kit.

Once again, player problem, if you feel that strongly about it, find 31 other people who you want to play with and then you wont have a problem.

[snooggums]

By removing the spec-ops kit, people no longer rushed to request the spec-ops kit; people no longer made stupid infiltration spec-ops squads entering enemy lines and trying to 'sabotage' the enemy.

So people don't use combat engineer/rifleman specialist squads to ambush vehicle routes or sneak into cache locations or take out enemy FoBs behind enemy lines with the same basic equipment a Spec Ops kit did?

The only thing removing the Spec ops did was curtail the Spec Ops kit limit whining and lower the amount of explosives on the field for standard forces. If the Sniper kit is removed then the Marksman will fill the role for the same players. If that is removed then they will go after the SAWs, like they do already.

The sniper actually fits the current game play as a support unit, a Spec Ops was just not someone who would be on a regular battlefield. Most players can't understand how the Rifleman AP works, so they would advocate getting rid of that although it is actually a pretty sweet defensive kit at this time that people use incorrectly. A couple people being stupid with sniper kits will be stupid with whatever else they can get their hands on, and those same players will be taking HATs or armor assets when the sniper is unavailable. No need to remove a useful kit because most people don't use it right.

[Staker]

What's wrong with spotting and occasionally taking down a few targets for fun? I do agree, that the kit is usually used wrong, but I don't think that's a reason to remove it. If an idiot takes it, he will lose it and leave the server. Doesn't change your game at all, if you just ignore him. If one or two men have a locked squad and new slots are needed, it's up to admins to decide what will happen to them.

[Brummy]

How often do you see the combat engineer sneaking into enemy territory compared to the original spec-ops kit? The amount of such squads have drastically decreased, because their leet kit has been taken away.

Same with the sniper kit, it has a certain leet factor that attracts these peeps.

[Dev1200]

The problem isn't with the player, it's with the kit.

[Psyrus]

What are Snipers doing at the moment that has a significant impact on gameplay?

Removing 2-4 people from each team that might otherwise be contributing to teamwork & gameplay. That's potentially 8 people from the server, otherwise known as an 8th of all players, 12.5% of the server on kewl snipzor mishuns. I'd rather those 12.5% on the flag with me [well 6.25% with me, and the rest on the other team], medicing, providing cover fire, building assets and all around contributing to the team.

[FuzzySquirrel]

I disagree with removing the kit, every game has elements that are abused, but you don't take them out just because a small majority abuse it (except for the pilot kit side arm....). The main point of this kit is to provide Recon and on occasion engage infantry from a concealed position. and Example is yesterday I wouldn't have done half as good as I did without the Recon squad informing me where AT weapons and other threats to my APC were.

I am however REALLY tired of this. "If its abused get rid of it" stuff tho, Snipers are realistic, and yes they can't see any farther than anyone else, and you will get a noob every now and then that likes to play survivor in the city, but that doesn't mean we should remove the kit.

If you remove the kit, you might as well;
Get rid of transport vehicles because you can just walk.
or
Remove Combat Engi because AT weapons accomplish the same thing as Mines and C4
or
Take away the AA kit because you can build it at FOBs
...

[BlackwaterSaxon]

Removing 2-4 people from each team that might otherwise be contributing to teamwork & gameplay. That's potentially 8 people from the server, otherwise known as an 8th of all players, 12.5% of the server on kewl snipzor mishuns. I'd rather those 12.5% on the flag with me [well 6.25% with me, and the rest on the other team], medicing, providing cover fire, building assets and all around contributing to the team.

Do you really think that those people will want to contribute to the game? They'll just go after the next l337 kit, the Marksman, Grenadier, HAT, LAT, anything that makes a loud bang, you can take away all the toys you want, but at the end of the day, it wont lead to increased teamwork, it will just lead to less players in a server.

[FuzzySquirrel]

I got it! Lets take everything out except for Rifleman and Officer, then we can walk everywhere and wont have to worry about noobs ruining the game with their 1337 toys.

[BlackwaterSaxon]

I got it! Lets take everything out except for Rifleman and Officer, then we can walk everywhere and wont have to worry about noobs ruining the game with their 1337 toys.

Seems that is what people are looking for.

[Psyrus]

Do you really think that those people will want to contribute to the game? They'll just go after the next l337 kit, the Marksman, Grenadier, HAT, LAT, anything that makes a loud bang, you can take away all the toys you want, but at the end of the day, it wont lead to increased teamwork, it will just lead to less players in a server.

So what I can gather from your post is that you're in favour of lonewolf tards in servers? You know why games like this, this or this exist? It's because people, namely men, mostly in the sub 30s, would love to be that spec ops/sniper silently taking out all those enemies, being the big time Mr awesome. The spec ops kit was already taken out and removed those useless 'infiltration', 'sabotage' squads and now all that's left bringing out the lonewolf tards is the sniper kit. I can understand that you guys want to play as the sniper... but there's a whole mod dedicated to that, or you can try any of those other games I linked above. Project Reality is a teamwork centric game and snipers more often than not are uninterested in teamwork. Thus it is against the spirit of the game and should be removed, in my opinion.

[BlackwaterSaxon]

So what I can gather from your post is that you're in favour of lonewolf tards in servers? You know why games like this, this or this exist? It's because people, namely men, mostly in the sub 30s, would love to be that spec ops/sniper silently taking out all those enemies, being the big time Mr awesome. The spec ops kit was already taken out and removed those useless 'infiltration', 'sabotage' squads and now all that's left bringing out the lonewolf tards is the sniper kit. I can understand that you guys want to play as the sniper... but there's a whole mod dedicated to that, or you can try any of those other games I linked above. Project Reality is a teamwork centric game and snipers more often than not are uninterested in teamwork. Thus it is against the spirit of the game and should be removed, in my opinion.

I'm not in favour of them, more like, I would rather they were out being useless with sniper rifles rather than out being useless with all of my squads limited kits. Taking away kits is tarded however, why take out perfectly legitimate kits out of a mod which is all about combined arms and inter-squad teamwork? The more we cater to those who "don't see the point" in kits, the more diluted the mod gets and the less players we will see. The removal of the spec ops kit was entirely justified, as it offered very little to gameplay and had no real place in a conventional engagement, lumping the sniper kit in with that category will just create problems, especially since the maps are getting larger, and sniper rifles can actually be utilised properly.

[Psyrus]

I'm sorry but if you can't see the irony behind supporting the removal of spec ops whilst arguing that the sniper kit remain in game, I cannot take this discussion any further. You, Blackwatersaxon, have beaten me. And don't worry, the sniper kit has made it to 0.91 despite people like myself calling for its removal since what, like 0.5... so I think it's quite safe to say that it'll be staying in game.

I will put forth one final assertion as I depart: You say that we'll lose players if the sniper kit is dropped? I say good riddance to those who can't enjoy PR without a sniper kit, they are exactly the type I would like to see extinguished from the player base. They take up valuable places in the limited 64 player battlefield that could be occupied by people actually interested in PR gameplay

[FuzzySquirrel]

So what I can gather from your post is that you're in favour of lonewolf tards in servers?

Which is EXACTLY WHY pr servers come with a Pre-Coded option in the .py to FORCE players to join a squad, Most admins will not tolerate people who don't play as a team, Taking a kit out of the game because of a server that lets tards get away with this is despicable. Snipers are used IRL with great efficiency and most the time its that way in game.

and the sniper kit doesn't have a Silenced Pistol, Full Auto rifle, C4, a Grapple hook, Slams and a GLTD, it has a Rifle, and a GLTD, and is very usefully when you have 2 people in the same squad spotting from different positions.

[gazzthompson]

The only reason for keeping the sniper kit is to keep the retards out of my squad and attracted to that kit instead of HATs ect, tho they normally grab them after they realize they cant get the damn sniper kit.

[MadTommy]

Christ... this thread is just a disaster. Why not remove all choppers, planes & tanks as players often abuse / sit wait for them / tk for them and lonewolf with them.

[gazzthompson]

the thing with that argument is, yes people abuse ALL assets and kits.... but 95% of the time they use them right (ish) but 98%~ (ive done studies you know) the sniper kit is just a useless player on the field who will soon disconnect when he dies. Its just time to give up on the thing

[BlackwaterSaxon]

I'm sorry but if you can't see the irony behind supporting the removal of spec ops whilst arguing that the sniper kit remain in game, I cannot take this discussion any further. You, Blackwatersaxon, have beaten me. And don't worry, the sniper kit has made it to 0.91 despite people like myself calling for its removal since what, like 0.5... so I think it's quite safe to say that it'll be staying in game.

I don't see the irony at all, the two couldn't be further apart. In terms of gameplay, the spec ops kit is still with us, we have combat engineers and specialists, how many times have you seen either of those lonewolfing in insurgency mode? The sniper kit can be a teamwork oriented kit, people just need to play it the right way, what you are suggesting is getting rid of it because some people are using it incorrectly? why not get rid of everything then? Can you honestly say yourself that you have never fired a TOW at infantry? or gone off solo with the sniper kit, or any kit for that matter.

I will put forth one final assertion as I depart: You say that we'll lose players if the sniper kit is dropped? I say good riddance to those who can't enjoy PR without a sniper kit, they are exactly the type I would like to see extinguished from the player base. They take up valuable places in the limited 64 player battlefield that could be occupied by people actually interested in PR gameplay

If kits are dropped because some people believe they do not encourage teamplay, then yes, the game will empty. The game already is pretty empty compared to what it has been like in previous versions, used to be plenty of full servers on the list, these days there are only one or two.

If you want people to work as a team, bring 31 friends with you into a server. There is no way you can play in a public server without putting up with one or two people who dont want to work as a team, why does that warrant kit removals?