Sniper Kit Discussion - Removal?

[killonsight95]

thats like saying infantry should be removed because they cant dig trenches

they get foxholes which are like trenches just more top of groundy, and for a sniper to hide in one of these would be attention seeking and a bit silly. Also it still doesn't help that 800 meters is on the verge of only the big maps veiw distances and make snipers useless on all smaller maps.
however i do see you point, but that wasn't my only point. Any who how manby snipers are there per 500 men on average in a army?

[BadGuy]

The truth is normal people are fine with it as it provides a common ground of intelligence and opportunities. It is just only clan people think of it as non team-workable but funny thing is if that person is part of their clan then it is fine.

The sniper kit is like gold but for most of the game that gold is not that valuable. But to an RTS point of view and having yourself instantly eliminate one man before engagement brings a whole advantage for squad level. You need snipers to counter snipers, AT's AA's and so forth to help your team mobilize and that one shot kill usefulness is good for surprises.

[Tim270]

The main issue I have with its usage is that it is one of the best kits for observing and and passing info to the CO, however it is nearly always used isolated, simply trying to rack up kills and most of the time failing.

[burghUK]

Maybe we should remove the AT kits because people sometimes use it to kill infantry.

[snooggums]

Maybe we should remove the AT kits because people sometimes use it to kill infantry.

We can ship them out with the snipers on the logi trucks that those same selfish players use for transportation to their ridge line to shoot their sniper rifles and HATs

Or, we can recognize it is a player problem that would simply be replaced with those same players doing other stupid stuff.

I can say that I am only killed in MG nests by snipers, regular rifles aren't accurate enough and I can take out a LMG before he can deploy and fire accurately or squad mates will return fire on him. Snipers can sit back far enough and just quiet enough to pick off people manning stationary positions that cannot be assaulted by infantry due to open ground.

It is a very useful kit which I barely use but know that it can be used effectively to neutralize targets and provide intel. Many players do everything wrong, let's not blame it all on the kit.

[Jigsaw]

however i do see you point, but that wasn't my only point. Any who how manby snipers are there per 500 men on average in a army?

Quite a few I imagine, afaik they're one of the most effective weapons the Coalition use in Afghanistan to take out the Taliban.

[Brummy]

The truth is normal people are fine with it as it provides a common ground of intelligence and opportunities. It is just only clan people think of it as non team-workable but funny thing is if that person is part of their clan then it is fine.

I'm guilty of this. This is one of the reasons that I believe the sniper kit should be removed. Even good PR players that like to play infantry properly misuse this kit in the same way as the 'tardier' players. Maybe not as extreme, but rarely do I see a sniper actually providing good recon combined with good communication.

Too often this kit is used as an isolated player shooting at random infantry. Even if you don't die, even if you have a KD/R of 15-0; I believe that this player slot could much rather be spent on other tasks.

The sniper kit is like gold but for most of the game that gold is not that valuable. But to an RTS point of view and having yourself instantly eliminate one man before engagement brings a whole advantage for squad level. You need snipers to counter snipers, AT's AA's and so forth to help your team mobilize and that one shot kill usefulness is good for surprises.

Snipers can take out players in emplacement, but so can regular infantry, so can almost anyone with a rifle. AA emplacements are very easy to take out. You could use armour, infantry or even CAS with BVR or other approaches.

AT emplacements are a bit more difficult, but surely a combined assault can easily take these out.

Agree. Would rather nothing than having a guy on my six with a shotgun rather than some dud in the hills who never heard of the K button.

That's just ridiculous. Not every tardy sniper will turn into this. With the use of VOIP and showing these guys the ropes you can transform a tardy sniper into a great infantryman. Of course there are those players who just won't learn and continue to be an absolute tard. This is however a different issue in my opinion.

We can ship them out with the snipers on the logi trucks that those same selfish players use for transportation to their ridge line to shoot their sniper rifles and HATs

Or, we can recognize it is a player problem that would simply be replaced with those same players doing other stupid stuff.

Jeez... Welcome to the last page, you've posted the same a couple of times already.

I can say that I am only killed in MG nests by snipers, regular rifles aren't accurate enough and I can take out a LMG before he can deploy and fire accurately or squad mates will return fire on him. Snipers can sit back far enough and just quiet enough to pick off people manning stationary positions that cannot be assaulted by infantry due to open ground.

Well shouldn't HMGs be like that? Pin infantry down?

Find cover, and then surpress or use other approaches.

It is a very useful kit which I barely use but know that it can be used effectively to neutralize targets and provide intel. Many players do everything wrong, let's not blame it all on the kit.

How is it that useful? As I mentioned in this post, most emplacements can easily be taken out with other assets. Shouldn't these mounted HMGs and ATs be a thread to infantry and keep them pinned? Or would you rather have some lonely dude shooting him from some hill far away.

[BlackwaterSaxon]

I've had entire squads misuse kits before, shall we remove them as well?

[0331SgtSpyUSMC]

People keep mentioning "wrongly used". I think that as long as you reducing opponents tickets, it does not matter how. Teamwork or no teamwork, the bottom line is everyone wants to win. Don't tell me that you would agree to loose as long as you have a "great team" because I won't buy into it These special kits provide that unique opportunity to basically take some extra tickets away from the opponents team. I don't think there is anything "l33t" about it, it's not that easy to jump in and start taking out targets at 600+ m but if they can do it, more power to them. And as I mentioned before, it's about DIVERSITY, if not for it, this mod would have been forgotten long time ago.

You guys want intel and recon, give the sniper ability to provide that before you ***** at him for not doing his job. There is so many times when your INTEL gets overwhelmed by useless spam, or people simply forget to read or don't have time. Eventually anyone would get discouraged because no one is listening, so he will just sit there and contribute to the teams effort anyway he can, or as some call it "l33t killing" lol So in reality people playing with a sniper kit are not given the proper tools to give the rest of the team support that they expect. Give sniper a radio in the next update and lets see what happens.

[killonsight95]

give him the ability to spot.... just take a officer kit. reduce enemy tickets should be achevied through teamwork... if i didn't want teamwork i'd go and play vBF2.
so no i don't really care about winning sure its not great but if i've had a fun round with a team that was good and it was a challenge then yes i don't mind loosing. However snipers arn't contributing to my enjoyment of this game at all, i've been a sniper before and since a TOW and AA can be back up in 30 seconds its impossible to stop it from inturupting a freindly advance.
Also poeple are saying they can stop a enemy squad from advancing.... somehow i don't think so, if thye have a marksmen the sniper is dead if they hvae an AR as well then the sniper can only shoot once... and kill one of them then he'll die.

i've never used a sniper for spotting as i think "i don't need to make kills i need to concentrate on spotting and i need to defend myself close range from enemies not long range". If a squad needs to take out a enemy TOW or AA or HMG ethier pop smokes get a AR kit or marksmen or get your SL to lase them and drop a bomb on it, it requires more teamwork and in the end fun than a guy on hill just go "bang" and often the snipers can't be in the right place since if they move they'll probs die.



Also Brummy i completly aggree with your post, a good cordinated assault can take out just about anything, yes even with out a sniper. That 1 or two man sniper team could be manning another apc,tank or AA to help defend your attack much better than one rifle on a hill.

[0331SgtSpyUSMC]

about winning sure its not great but if i've had a fun round with a team that was good and it was a challenge then yes i don't mind loosing.

You are my friend is a very rare kind I honestly meant it. But most of the guys play to win, not to run around the map with a bunch of good 'ol teammates to eventually loose the round. I really don't think the sniper kit is going anywhere anytime soon. As mentioned before by numerous posters, don't take it out on a kit.

You go that route and you might as well give everybody one type of rifle and charge each others fobs till you run out of tickets.

[Brummy]

You are my friend is a very rare kind I honestly meant it. But most of the guys play to win, not to run around the map with a bunch of good 'ol teammates to eventually loose the round. I really don't think the sniper kit is going anywhere anytime soon. As mentioned before by numerous posters, don't take it out on a kit.

Besides the fact that I think this discussion is irrelevant; I do play to win, yes. However, how I achieved the win is important to me. I could just take a bunch of clanmates and lonewolf around on infantry maps and achieve the same; done it before. Is it fun? Nope, this is one of the reasons why I dislike Insurgency in its current form as well, but that's another topic.

You go that route and you might as well give everybody one type of rifle and charge each others fobs till you run out of tickets.

Extreme over-exaggeration. We took out the spec-ops kit, I'd like to see the same happen to the sniper kit for similar reasons. I believe that this isn't going to happen anytime soon, but it would definitely be an improvement.

[MasterGypsy]

There are only a few people that play PR that can run a good sniper squad, but as everyone else says the game would probably be better without the kit.

[Smegburt_funkledink]

We took out the spec-ops kit, I'd like to see the same happen to the sniper kit for similar reasons.

Wasn't the spec-ops kit removed because special forces don't operate within conventional forces?

[Jigsaw]

Wasn't the spec-ops kit removed because special forces don't operate within conventional forces?

I believe this is correct, and for that exact reason I can't see the sniper kit being removed as these weapons are one of the most effective in use by coalition forces in Afghanistan for taking out Taliban targets and they are used by regular inf.

[Brummy]

True, but partly because of the gameplay reason as well.

Anyway, snipers do not operate in the way they do in PR.

[boilerrat]

The only way they would be more effective is with larger view distance.
With the current situation they are almost useless.

End of story...

[Systemic33]

You can make arguments for all kits...

Snipers have always been perceived as the lonewolf. But fact remains that they are hell more important and imo usefull than a rifleman who can't aim...

A fool with a tool is still a fool

If you remove the sniper, you are removing realism, and you remove the point in playing PR.
So if you want to play a game without snipers....find a different game/mod

[BlackwaterSaxon]

True, but partly because of the gameplay reason as well.

Anyway, snipers do not operate in the way they do in PR.

Depends how the sniper operates, just like regular infantry in PR do not always act the same as regular infantry in real life.

Also, love the argument about "you can do the same with a combined arms approach", yes, yes you can, that is why snipers are force multipliers, why waste all those assets on one attack when you can have a sniper take the shot instead?

Also, you can cripple an enemy advance with a sniper, regardless of some of the posters on this thread saying otherwise, a single squad is not going to continue their advance forward if a sniper round has just taken out their medic, picking the medic back up takes time, so does going a different route, a series of events that significantly impact the effectiveness of that squad, all caused by a single round.

Yes, we can bomb the shit out of everything and take a combined arms approach, or people can just deal with the fact that if they are stupid enough to stand in one area for an extended period of time, they will be taken out.

Snipers do not effect gameplay negatively at all, even when misused, keep the kit and get on with your own teamwork, as a sniper lonewolfing or working as a pair does not impact you in the slightest.

[Eddiereyes909]

I can almost guarantee you, that if the sniper kit is removed, little, little will change in current gameplay.

The sniper kit is rarely used as it should be, which means that it's a waste of two, or even four spaces with the spotters being included.

Remove the sniper kit, and you'll see a few less vehicles/helicopters being wasted by those lonewolves asking for rides, or just taking the vehicles. Intel, can be provided by a 4 man, or even 2 man recon squad. These, in my experiences in the game do the job better, and more effectively.

The only thing that I have ever used a sniper for, (sorry mitch) is as a distraction. I use these players, tell them "go on top of that area and shoot at the enemy". The enemy will be distracted, and at least 2 players who knows were the sniper kit is will try to kill the sniper to take his kit. In my opinion if the enemy has 4 sniper kits on the field, I tend to feel that it's better. As the nubs on my team won't be focused on it.

There have been rare, very rare circumstances where I let a sniper into my squad, and even rarer was when it turned out for the best. Maybe 1 in 20 rounds will I see the kit being used properly. There is a problem with the sniper if my medic has more kills than you. Or, better yet, as happened last night, if my driver for my APC has more kills than you, and he hasnt left the vehicle once.

I'm not saying that i hate the sniper kit, but in reading the 26 posts in this page, I can tell that some people hate it, while others hate the players who use the kit. Often times I'll see my squad being killed, annihilated, and being cut off from the rest of the team in the chase of a flag, when I see 4 people in a sniper squad, moving around the edge of the map, and then being spoted by a technical and killed.

Finally, as some of you know I have recently started playing PR again. Been playing a few hours every few night, and getting back in the groove of squad leading and being a member. The most annoying thing in the world, is when your squad leader says "Hey guys, I found a sniper kit, you guys go take the flag, I'll sit back and provide over-watch". This is a waste. The sniper kit isn't needed, and by removing it you'll only be hurting a small minority of the players in this game, the same small minority that brags about getting 50 kills on insurgency, the same kids who stand around for 20 minutes waiting for a kit, and the same minority that will leave your squad once they find the sniper kit.

It is useless, remove it.