Comprehensive small arms Deviation list for 0.97

Mikemonster · Post by **Mikemonster** » 2011-09-27 21:12

G3:

ObjectTemplate.deviation.devModStand 1.5
ObjectTemplate.deviation.devModCrouch 1.0
ObjectTemplate.deviation.devModLie 0.9

M4:

ObjectTemplate.deviation.devModStand 2.5
ObjectTemplate.deviation.devModCrouch 2
ObjectTemplate.deviation.devModLie 3

I don't 'get' this really.. That's why I'd like to see a comprehensive guide/table.

Also, see FireDev in the G3 table - This is presumably the added deviation per shot that I keep going on about.

PhillyJoker · Post by **PhillyJoker** » 2011-09-28 22:00

Unfortunately I'm traveling/busy all this weekend, but if nobody has some sort of table/chart with all the weapons in it by next week i'll begin working on one. It seems fairly easy to infer exactly what happens with each of those modifiers in my opinion.

I don't 'get' this really.. That's why I'd like to see a comprehensive guide/table.

M4:

ObjectTemplate.deviation.devModStand 2.5
ObjectTemplate.deviation.devModCrouch 2
ObjectTemplate.deviation.devModLie 3

ModStand is the modifier bonus for deviation while the player is standing. Thus, 2.5 x dev = deviation when standing. Or if say 4 seconds is stand deviation then: 2.5 x 4 = 10. So you'd have 10 seconds of deviation for a M4 when standing.

Though it would not make much sense to have more for lying down... So perhaps it is not deviation seconds, but a certain attribute. I'm sure a mod will clear that issue up soon.

saXoni · Post by **saXoni** » 2011-09-28 22:04

PhillyJoker wrote:Though it would not make much sense to have more for lying down... So perhaps it is not deviation seconds, but a certain attribute. I'm sure a mod will clear that issue up soon.

Exactly. I don't understand anything of this. We need a list. Now!

Buren06 · Post by **Buren06** » 2011-09-29 00:44

In what world does the M4 have MORE deviation than the G3...? That's news to me.

ExNusquam · Post by **ExNusquam** » 2011-09-29 02:27

M4s have shorter barrels, lower muzzle velocities, and shoot a lighter round that is more susceptible to the whims of the environment. The M16A4 would be a better comparison.

TeRR0R · Post by **TeRR0R** » 2011-09-29 11:41

These devMods are no secrets guys.
1 Minute of googling revealed things like this:

Deviation Component Information - Official BF Editor Forums

Let me quote:

The Deviation Component

There are three types of deviation comps:
- TargetDeviationComp
- SimpleDeviationComp
- SoldierDeviationComp

Code information:

---== ObjectTemplate.deviation.minDev <value>
Minimum deviation possible for the weapon.

---== ObjectTemplate.deviation.subProjectileDev <value>
If your weapon fires batches of projectiles, use this to set the deviation of the projectiles within the cluster.

---== ObjectTemplate.deviation.radius <value>
Only used in TargetDeviationComp, used in combination with the Fixed Target Component.
The value is the radius in meters, in which the projectiles will hit the target.

---== ObjectTemplate.deviation.setFireDev <Max> <Add> <Sub>
---== ObjectTemplate.deviation.setTurnDev <Max> <AddPitch> <AddYaw> <Sub>
---== ObjectTemplate.deviation.setSpeedDev <Max> <AddForward> <AddStrafe> <Sub>
---== ObjectTemplate.deviation.setMiscDev <Max> <AddJump> <Sub>
Max = The maximum value that is possible in this deviation type.
Sub = The standard value to start from. (the minimum value)
Add = The deviation to add if the weapon fires one time.
AddPitch = The deviation to add if the player is pitching.
AddYaw = The deviation to add if the player is yawing to the left or right.
AddForward = The deviation to add if the player is moving forward or backward.
AddStrafe = The deviation to add if the player is moving to the left or right.
AddJump = The deviation to add if the player is jumping.

---== ObjectTemplate.deviation.devModStand <value>
The factor for the deviation while the soldier is standing.
All values will be multiplied with this value.

---== ObjectTemplate.deviation.devModCrouch <value>
The factor for the deviation while the soldier is crouching.
All values will be multiplied with this value.

---== ObjectTemplate.deviation.devModLie <value>
The factor for the deviation while the soldier is lying on the ground.
All values will be multiplied with this value.

---== ObjectTemplate.deviation.devModZoom <value>
The factor for the deviation while the soldier is zoomed in.
All values will be multiplied with this value.

General information:

Deviation of 0 - No deviation
Deviation of 1 - Some deviation
Deviation of 2 - A lot of deviation.
Deviation of 0 and multiplier of 10 - 0 deviation
Deviation of 1 and multiplier of 3 - 3 deviation
Deviation of 2 and multiplier of 0.5 - 1 deviation

It is not clear what the deviation value actually means, but you could say:
The value is the angle in which the projectiles leave the gun.

If you remove certain deviation components, those components will be ignored.
It is not recommended to remove the mindev lines.
A deviation component is not required for a weapon; it's optional.

Mikemonster · Post by **Mikemonster** » 2011-09-29 15:07

I could have spent the best part of several days Googling and reading up on all of the lines, but it's really not of any interest to me apart from the practical side of just knowing exactly what the characteristics of the guns are.

Surely with the age of information there is some way to MailMerge all of the text files into a spreadsheet? I really didn't want to copy and paste each line you see.. it'd take days.

Hence why I asked the MODs if we could just have the info. Infantry warfare in PR is so delicate and hated/moaned about that I'm sure there is a file somewhere (openable by BFeditor.exe as mentioned at the top of the tweak files?) that states exactly what we want to know.

How could the mods balance infantry play if they didn't have a list of stats for each gun?

saXoni · Post by **saXoni** » 2011-09-29 15:39

It doesn't look like the MODs want to give us this information.

Mikemonster · Post by **Mikemonster** » 2011-09-29 16:55

Ironically that means that they are making it harder to get info on PR weapons than most of the worlds arms manufacturers of current-issue weapons.

Edit:

I downloaded BF2editor.exe .. Here is the section JUST for deviation in the M16A2:

http://s1.postimage.org/6q6mvtdzx/delete1.jpg

So it's not just a case of deviation vs damage .. lol

Post by **Psyrus** » 2011-09-29 18:01

Mikemonster wrote:I'm sure there is a file somewhere (openable by BFeditor.exe as mentioned at the top of the tweak files?) that states exactly what we want to know.

There is... I pointed you to it earlier...

Mikemonster wrote:noting the deviation, recoil, damage, deviation when settled, target grouping on full auto values for each soldier carried gun in PR

All of those values are in the tweak files; The target grouping... I'm not sure what you mean? What range are you talking about, and are you looking for like "Max 6m grouping @ 300m" or something?

From what I understand from your post above, it's not that the information isn't available... it's that it's "inconvenient" to look at, and we'd prefer it in a pre-formatted table form? I'm guessing the devs have some sort of reference, but whether they'll share that or expect you/me/people to use the data we already have... I dunno

Post by **Spec** » 2011-09-29 18:15

Don't directly quote me at anything here, this is not 'original research', I've just been given bits of information, that, despite myself not fully understanding it, I guess I should share for people to analyze:

This contains a brief explanation of most lines in the tweak files, although it is not 100% reliable (not made by me, don't ask me in case of any errors inside

). It appears to be the case that all the deviation values are in degrees, with MinDev obviously being the minimum deviation, MaxDev the maximum deviation caused by that action, and the rest being how much deviation is added, although I do not know, for example, if movement adds deviation 'per time', 'per distance moved' or whatever, let alone how much in what time/distance.

The calculation for the actual size of the cone of fire (in meters) would be:

A = 2B tan C

A = Width of the cone of fire (meters)
B = Range to target (meters)
C = "max dev" (degrees)

Again, this is information I've been given, not information I have personally dug up, so I can't tell you much more.

According to that calculation, and the assumption that the deviation is in degrees, there's some odd results that I don't understand. The higher the number, the higher the deviation, so I wouldn't know why the M4 would have a higher deviation when prone compared to standing, as that clearly isn't supposed to be the case (and I wouldn't say I'd have noticed it being that way in-game either).

Anyway, let's use a random number to see how realistic the results are. Let's use a deviation of 3 degrees (that number appears a lot), and an example distance of 25 meters. tan(3) = ~0.05?

Thus,
A = 2 * 25 * 0.05

Therefore,

A = 2.5m

Means at 25 meters, a deviation of '3' in the code would equal 2.5m of deviation. That could be realistic, seeing of far stuff deviates in-game.

Still doesn't explain how the M4 has a higher prone deviation than standing deviation...

Anyway; once we figured out how exactly that stuff works - would a number of people possibly be interested in getting a community wiki started, seeing how the guide is going nowhere and even disappeared from the site? The devs don't seem to work on it from all I know, so perhaps it might be something for the community to simply start with. That said, I myself have never been a great wiki editor and wouldn't want to 'lead' a project like that, but perhaps some of you lot have some experience with that and we should just get that done seeing how nothing official is likely ever going to be released.

TheComedian · Post by **TheComedian** » 2011-09-29 21:15

In the end all math is useless because of a funny object called the BF2 hitbox.

saXoni · Post by **saXoni** » 2011-09-29 21:19

TheComedian wrote:In the end all math is useless because of a funny object called the BF2 hitbox.

That's not true. This is about deviation, not whether the hit is recorded or not.

Mikemonster · Post by **Mikemonster** » 2011-09-29 22:33

Psyrus wrote:
Originally Posted by Mikemonster View Post
I'm sure there is a file somewhere (openable by BFeditor.exe as mentioned at the top of the tweak files?) that states exactly what we want to know.
There is... I pointed you to it earlier...

Originally Posted by Mikemonster
noting the deviation, recoil, damage, deviation when settled, target grouping on full auto values for each soldier carried gun in PR
All of those values are in the tweak files; The target grouping... I'm not sure what you mean? What range are you talking about, and are you looking for like "Max 6m grouping @ 300m" or something?

From what I understand from your post above, it's not that the information isn't available... it's that it's "inconvenient" to look at, and we'd prefer it in a pre-formatted table form? I'm guessing the devs have some sort of reference, but whether they'll share that or expect you/me/people to use the data we already have... I dunno

Yes Psyrus you pointed me towards the tweak files, which I am thankful for. But I was after one comprehensive file that allows a direct comparison of all of the attributes of the guns.. See my previous post as to why:

Re: Comprehensive small arms Deviation list for 0.97
I could have spent the best part of several days Googling and reading up on all of the lines, but it's really not of any interest to me apart from the practical side of just knowing exactly what the characteristics of the guns are.

Surely with the age of information there is some way to MailMerge all of the text files into a spreadsheet? I really didn't want to copy and paste each line you see.. it'd take days.

Hence why I asked the MODs if we could just have the info. Infantry warfare in PR is so delicate and hated/moaned about that I'm sure there is a file somewhere (openable by BFeditor.exe as mentioned at the top of the tweak files?) that states exactly what we want to know.

How could the mods balance infantry play if they didn't have a list of stats for each gun?

Basically the information has ALREADY been made, compared and tweaked for each rifle. I just wanted the MODs to give us this file.

It's not going to make us into super l33t players, just take away some of the frustration and guesswork that even experienced players have.

Post by **Outlawz7** » 2011-09-30 14:20

saXoni wrote:It doesn't look like the MODs want to give us this information.

Who do you mean by 'MODs'?

saXoni · Post by **saXoni** » 2011-09-30 14:35

[R-DEV]Outlawz wrote:Who do you mean by 'MODs'?

Sorry, I meant the guys developing this game.

Mikemonster · Post by **Mikemonster** » 2011-09-30 21:03

Mm, I think I started that in all caps. Sorry about that, I meant devs, lol. Not much sleep lately.

jimbobjim · Post by **jimbobjim** » 2011-10-07 23:19

For the best ever explanation of deviation and how to understand the code in the files:

https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f10-pr-bf2-general-discussion/90999-deviation-how-its-made.html