Make techies unable to be single manned.

[Total_Overkill]

Why would you put 6 people 'next to trucks'?

2man vehicle operation requirement
6 techies, 6 gunners, 6 drivers... drivers get out to shut off engine noise. Ergo, 6 people standing next to trucks. Makes sense...

[Trooper909]

Yeah, gameplay > realism

Grrr that bloody comment always comes up when nerfing unconventional forces even more but always comes up for buffing conventional forces its such a double standard.

Can give 1000 examples of it.

[badmojo420]

Thanks, but I don't need my mom to tell me your judgement is highly biased. You see technicals getting abandoned and automatically make the connection that all one manned technicals are going to be abandoned or wasted.

I see snipers running off and not providing intel to the rest of the team. But, I don't claim that all snipers who don't work with a spotter will not be an asset to the team. Hell, I've even seen sniper/spotter teams who are useless compared to some single man snipers. It all comes down to the player. You can group together shit players, it still won't make them better players.

I feel like your under the misconception that a single man in a technical means a lonewolf player, who is squadless, micless, and never uses team chat. But, a good deal of the time that lone guy in the technical will still be part of a squad, communicating and working with them, not to mention typing in team chat.

I'll ask this... why is a team minded player, who is alone in a technical, a bad thing in PR? And please don't just play the realism card. There's no way you can prove that technicals in real life are never single manned. And we all know it is humanly possible to drive a pickup truck and then get out and walk around and fire the mounted gun, all by yourself.

[Mikemonster]

2man vehicle operation requirement
6 techies, 6 gunners, 6 drivers... drivers get out to shut off engine noise. Ergo, 6 people standing next to trucks. Makes sense...

Yeah, three technicals in a squad = three gunners & also three spotters/guys providing security after driving the gunner to the intended ambush/choke point.

x2 Squads.

But in each squad that's not 3 guys 'standing around' .. It's three guys manning RPG's to protect the techies or watching the flanks/scouting for infantry. And if the gunner dies and the 'APC Policy' of crewing is in place then these guys will recover the techie and RTB to get their gunner.

Thanks, but I don't need my mom to tell me your judgement is highly biased. You see technicals getting abandoned and automatically make the connection that all one manned technicals are going to be abandoned or wasted.

Yes. An abandoned techie is a wasted techie. And a single manned techie is almost guaranteed to get the lonewolf driver/gunner shot out - and therefore be abandoned.

And on that note if you read my posts and couldn't find a single specific part to dispute (instead simply implying I could expect hecklers whatever the qualities of my argument) then you need some form of helper because clearly your reading/comprehension skills need developing.

I see snipers running off and not providing intel to the rest of the team. But, I don't claim that all snipers who don't work with a spotter will not be an asset to the team. Hell, I've even seen sniper/spotter teams who are useless compared to some single man snipers. It all comes down to the player. You can group together shit players, it still won't make them better players.

I agree there, some lonewolfs are good team players, even though we don't see it/can't tell. The problem I have though is that if they are that good then they could contribute more by leading a squad or taking a position of authority (i.e. APC driving whilst on mumble, covering Inf). I don't think there are any valid reasons for lonewolfing, considering the point of the game is to be teamplay based.

I feel like your under the misconception that a single man in a technical means a lonewolf player, who is squadless, micless, and never uses team chat. But, a good deal of the time that lone guy in the technical will still be part of a squad, communicating and working with them, not to mention typing in team chat.

I'll ask this... why is a team minded player, who is alone in a technical, a bad thing in PR? And please don't just play the realism card. There's no way you can prove that technicals in real life are never single manned. And we all know it is humanly possible to drive a pickup truck and then get out and walk around and fire the mounted gun, all by yourself.

I do believe that a single man in a technical means a lonewolf player, simply because with only one person manning it it is so easy to lose. And because it's so effective at killing big[ish] targets such as Kiowas, Blackhawks, Humvees, Gary, Bomb car, etc it appeals exactly to what lonewolf types want - to feel they are fighting their own war and killing big game.

It's a lot less likely to be shot out of the Humvee but I can't see the benefit of one man driving one around as his squad's gun-bus. They are so easily disatracted and destroyed when single manned and mobile.

In your example of a 'Technical Squad' of six lone-manned Humvees/Technicals, that really is a best case scenario. They are still incapable of hit and run attacks (by that I mean quickly surprising the enemy, then firing until they fire back, then running off). A worst case scenario is six rambos that are hogging the important assets, only telling each other where enemy assets are when they die, and losing the techies every time one of them dies (and undoubtedly trying to recover 'their' techie afterwards leading to more intel loss).

If you implemented the 'APC Policy' with regards to two people manning it, the squad leader could still call in enemy positions on the map as well as place FOB's and call in mortars, etc. These 'teamwork' people that single man techies could still fire the guns.. You'd just have three in each of the techie squads with a driver that is also a 'passenger infantryman', rather than six with their own asset each.

[badmojo420]

And on that note if you read my posts and couldn't find a single specific part to dispute (instead simply implying I could expect hecklers whatever the qualities of my argument) then you need some form of helper because clearly your reading/comprehension skills need developing.

I decided to dispute your main point. And made a comment that you should have expected people to disagree with you.

Just because I don't agree with you, doesn't mean I cannot comprehend your side of the argument. At least be a man and have a debate without resorting to insults and mentioning my mother.

I'm not going to continue this debate any further if this is the attitude you are going to have. Grow up.

[Mikemonster]

You're a post behind, try addressing my problems with your argument rather than going right back to the start in order to fish for ideas on how to make me look bad. Quite clearly I made a good point when I questioned your aptitude.

Look, i've explained it all to you as simply as I can, by all means question/query my responses.

[badmojo420]

How is anyone supposed to debate with you when you call them stupid for not agreeing with you? Why waste my time on such a closed minded individual?

[TheComedian]

Mike, lack of teamwork and lonewolfing can be solved by the server administration. Most servers have rules that allow the admin to kick players he deems aren't contributing or even sabotaging the team.

You base all your arguments on your opinion of lonewolves. Thats fine, as long as you don't present them like lonewolfing was made by the devil.

God knows how many times I've decimated the BLUFOR helicopters by parking the technical in a ditch close to the usual flight lanes.

So then the blufor fanboys whine "techi is so OP because we can't shoot straight and we love teamwork and fun.... OMG NERF IT".
And then the opfor fanboys will reply that "it's the only heavy support the opfor have so get over it".

It just never ends.

[ukVandal]

I think a more workable and less restrictive solution would be to increase the turret warm up time on the .50 Techies, Hummers, Landies ..etc and add a requirement for a driver and gunner for the SPG, Crow, TOW Hummer ..etc (same as armour). Ammo techies should be left alone.

My humble oppinion.

V

[Spec]

Mike, please refrain from taking it to a personal level, some of the comments about badmojo were really uncalled for. Agree to disagree with him, a personal argument will simply get this locked and further insults will just result in infractions. If you have any questions about what I might be talking about, ask me via PM, don't respond to it in the thread.

About the suggestion, I believe a warm-up time for driver seats might actually be a good idea in general. Not long, just two seconds or so, and seeing how helicopters do have warm-up times, that might even be possible to do, although probably needlessly difficult. Just my thoughts - but this'd effectively promote two-manning the vehicle and weaken a non-stationary one-manned technical*, while still allowing for easy logistics and the ability of single insurgents to withdraw a vehicle from a danger zone. This'd also apply for humvees and such, improving realism without having the insurgent factions suffer.

*By making it harder to pull out when coming under fire with no driver in the seat

[Shovel]

About the suggestion, I believe a warm-up time for driver seats might actually be a good idea in general. Not long, just two seconds or so, and seeing how helicopters do have warm-up times, that might even be possible to do, although probably needlessly difficult. Just my thoughts - but this'd effectively promote two-manning the vehicle and weaken a non-stationary one-manned technical*, while still allowing for easy logistics and the ability of single insurgents to withdraw a vehicle from a danger zone. This'd also apply for humvees and such, improving realism without having the insurgent factions suffer.

*By making it harder to pull out when coming under fire with no driver in the seat

Sounds more realistic, too, if someone had to jump in the driver's seat when they came under fire, it would take some time for them to start the car, etc. Would add an advantage to have some people wait with the vehicles ready.

[Murphy]

Spec, that is a very eloquent solution and just a slight bit more difficult for those who enjoy playing with themselves alone in some field with their .50cal. On the other hand it's not really that hard to turn your car on and peel out irl.



SPGs and CROWs should require a driver.

[Vicious302]

Great Idea, cept ammo techie... I think regular technicals and cars should drop either 1 box for technicals and 1 or 2 bags for cars. Thus making this vehcile more powerful and utilizing them with 2 soldiers even more important.

I was playing Ramiel the other day, squad leading and covering a sapper setting up 8-9 mines, after he was complete I told him to stay put but he decided the technical near us was being wasted and decided to move a block up the street with it. within 4 minutes he was dead, his mines wasted, the whole squad falls apart. I think a 2 second start up time, 2 man mandatory must be in the same squad, and ammo for techies and cars is my suggestion.

[goguapsy]

On the other hand it's not really that hard to turn your car on and peel out irl.

Well, IRL you won't insta-teleport from the gun to the driver's seat, specially if the gun is outside!

Spec, that is a very eloquent solution

Oh, the elegance of having a R-tag!

[Expatriate Gamer]

please don't do this

[Sgt.Desert Tiger[TR]]

Why pll cry about what opfors have all time???Stop act like noob and play your game bluefors already have overpowered weaps.

Well, IRL you won't insta-teleport from the gun to the driver's seat, specially if the gun is outside!

Bluefors can switch to driver seat from gun instantly and can move apc back to base when driver died.I know because I killed styker driver in Kokan because he was outside of apc and using binocs for detect us.Than gunner switch to driver seat and run away.

BEFORE NERF OPFORS PLS STOP MAKE BLUEFORS OVERPOWERED THAN COME BACK -_-.

Pls not ruin opfor side again I only want this.

Mike, lack of teamwork and lonewolfing can be solved by the server administration. Most servers have rules that allow the admin to kick players he deems aren't contributing or even sabotaging the team.

You base all your arguments on your opinion of lonewolves. Thats fine, as long as you don't present them like lonewolfing was made by the devil.

God knows how many times I've decimated the BLUFOR helicopters by parking the technical in a ditch close to the usual flight lanes.

So then the blufor fanboys whine "techi is so OP because we can't shoot straight and we love teamwork and fun.... OMG NERF IT".
And then the opfor fanboys will reply that "it's the only heavy support the opfor have so get over it".

It just never ends.

As you said everytime only bluefors playing guys are crying when they got by techy.I saw articles more than anything which based on techy nerf.

[ComradeHX]

;1676607']
Bluefors can switch to driver seat from gun instantly and can move apc back to base when driver died.I know because I killed styker driver in Kokan because he was outside of apc and using binocs for detect us.Than gunner switch to driver seat and run away.

This.

People keep whining about techies because they keep shooting it with puny 5.56mmx45mm rounds and thinking "Y U no dead?"

They never notice how vulnerable technicals are to anything bigger(50cal, Autocannon, LAT).

Also, they are afraid of brining LAT because insurgents can use them...
That is more of a behavior problem with BluFor players...but I do not believe Technicals should be nerfed for it.

[Mikemonster]

Mike, lack of teamwork and lonewolfing can be solved by the server administration. Most servers have rules that allow the admin to kick players he deems aren't contributing or even sabotaging the team.

..

I understand what you mean and it is a partial solution Comedian, the problem is that even on the good and strictly moderated *** Server, you can't prove that a guy is being irresponsible with an asset such as the techie and wasting it.. And as well as that there is the human factor of 'is it fair, does he know, will it give us a bad reputation' etc etc.

And whilst active admins are extremely good at getting rid of 'lamers', there are still times when it is disputed/overlooked. At least a blanket restriction in the game would allow some of the inconsistency to be made a concrete rule (not perfect I know, nothing is).

You base all your arguments on your opinion of lonewolves. Thats fine, as long as you don't present them like lonewolfing was made by the devil.

God knows how many times I've decimated the BLUFOR helicopters by parking the technical in a ditch close to the usual flight lanes.

Well, it depends.. Lonewolfing can be a lot of fun [IMO], but if an asset is involved it can seem to me to be a bit greedy. Your example of taking the techie to a flight route and shooting down the helis undoubtedly helps the team, but in my opinion is a bit selfish and it probably would have been more fun/immersive for the rest of the team to be near the cache and visibly firing on the attacking choppers. Obviously if you were with a driver and in a techie squad then fair enough, it's co-ordinated and linked to the 'team structure'. Although I do still think that two guys in a closed squad looking for kills is lonewolfing mentality.

I suppose to clarify I feel that lonewolfing is taking an opportunity to fight your own war, not as a part of the team's structure, disregarding teamplay or Squad play to persue your own version of 'fun'. As Badmojo mentioned, sniper/spotter pairs can be useless - almost certainly because they are 'lonewolfing' by my definition. Using assets to persue this mentality is even worse [IMO] than if they just wander the map as an infantryman.

It depends I suppose whether you see the aim of the game as being a good player in terms of causing lots of damage to the enemy team, or a good player in terms of supporting your team's cohesion (also includes increasing their immersion or fun). I accept that the two overlap anyway, and a very good player will probably manage both. Hence a team can lose a game but have a great time playing.. The tactics and skill were terrible but they felt cohesive and supportive of each other whilst losing. [Edit: opposite being a team winning but feeling they have had a **** round despite that].

So then the blufor fanboys whine "techi is so OP because we can't shoot straight and we love teamwork and fun.... OMG NERF IT".
And then the opfor fanboys will reply that "it's the only heavy support the opfor have so get over it".

It just never ends.

I'm not a BLUFOR guy or an OPFOR guy, to make this clear to anyone I just made this Suggestion to improve gameplay and teamwork on the Insurgent side. I don't have any interest in changing the balance.

No offense intended TheComedian, you raised some good points in a good post and it gave me the opportunity to explain myself further.

[Sinbe]

I wouldn't consider this to be nerfing, but quite the opposite in fact. It would mean that there'd be loads more techies in use all the time and not abandoned on the field after the solo gunner has died.

[goguapsy]

;1676607']
Bluefors can switch to driver seat from gun instantly and can move apc back to base when driver died.

Yeah, I think there should be a delay in every vehicle between hopping in the driver's seat and moving. Something like 3 seconds in a car, not sure how long in an armor.