C4 vs caches

[Truism]

INS is a total joke of a mode anyway; close to impossible to enjoy. But I've been writing that for years now.

[Psyrus]

INS is a total joke of a mode anyway; close to impossible to enjoy. But I've been writing that for years now.

I have to respectfully disagree. I believe the concept is solid and I've had some of my best games both as blufor and opfor on insurgency maps. There are some elements that are still a bit broken (mortars on insurgency, collaborator dynamics, cache placements, C4ing caches), but overall I can't call it a joke of a mode.

[Acecombatzer0]

INS is a total joke of a mode anyway; close to impossible to enjoy. But I've been writing that for years now.

I agree, I thought I was alone...

[Dev1200]

Enough C4 would blow the fuck out of weapon-caches in real-life, so I don't mind it. The defenders just need to be a bit more organised and set up a perimeter to defend so the CE won't get through.

This.

C4 to cache isn't a bug. If you don't defend the building, they'll demolish the building to destroy the cache.

[imjustthatguy]

they should make it so if the wall is thick enough (like caves, tunnels,etc)
i mean a pack of c4 can probably level a small building, so putting it on a wall is reasonable, but in caves and tunnels its ridiculous how they get the cache with it.

[Xavo|xXx]

I'd only support it if you needed more than 1 pack of C4. I mean it's realistic for the C4 to blow a building and take out the cache I guess (not good for game dynamics though), but as the above said in caves and tunnels - no way.

Even if it is 2 packs to destroy, it gives a pretty even chance to both sides I reckon. At the moment its one of those infuriating things that I put up with because you can give as good as you take next round or w/e.

[PFunk]

Nobody around here having a problem with a lone wolf Kiowa pilot being able to just spam a cache with rockets and blow it up?

Apparently wicked sick air power is still so overwhelmingly epic that people forgive that. Now, which is actually harder to accomplish? 2 man team sneaking into a cache area undetected? Orrrrrr some guy in helicopter spamming every building around the active cache marker on the map?

I wonder... I suppose we'll have to nerf the kiowa then right guys? I mean... its not like you can defend against air power as insurgents right?

Yea, Kiowa spam is right up there with C4 cache in my opinion.

Its so unfair, ergo it must be a bug.

[Buren06]

I don't personally believe it should function so effectively through walls and other hard cover. If you get in in direct contact with the cache, then that's a different story - but as it is, I think it is far to exploitable.

[FLAP_BRBGOING2MOON]

Nobody around here having a problem with a lone wolf Kiowa pilot being able to just spam a cache with rockets and blow it up?

Apparently wicked sick air power is still so overwhelmingly epic that people forgive that. Now, which is actually harder to accomplish? 2 man team sneaking into a cache area undetected? Orrrrrr some guy in helicopter spamming every building around the active cache marker on the map?

I wonder... I suppose we'll have to nerf the kiowa then right guys? I mean... its not like you can defend against air power as insurgents right?

Yea, Kiowa spam is right up there with C4 cache in my opinion.

Its so unfair, ergo it must be a bug.

https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f196-p ... -list.html

Materials

Decreased 70mm unguided rocket explosion damage vs caches by a significant amount
Decreased ATGM/TOW explosion damage vs caches by 75%

if you are being sarcastic i really cannot pick it up.

[Dev1200]

https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f196-p ... -list.html

Materials

Decreased 70mm unguided rocket explosion damage vs caches by a significant amount
Decreased ATGM/TOW explosion damage vs caches by 75%

if you are being sarcastic i really cannot pick it up.

He's being overly sarcastic. Kiowa can be downed by AK fire, people just don't shoot at it. If you got a single .50 cal who's not retarded, kiowa is dead unless kiowa manages to kill the gunner with hydras before the techy can react.


People need to stop thinking 2 dimensionally when they are defending a cache. Defend the building/buildings around the cache as much as the cache itself. Don't cry bug if you think PR is a maze, and to you people are blowing holes in the hedges

[Truism]

Conversely, don't cry if an entire game mode is designed to be no fun to play as one of the two teams who gets overmatch in practically every area, with the other team relying on not dying so that the deeply flawed intelligence system doesn't reveal the locations of objectives.

Bottom line: If no one spawned on the Ins team, the Coalition team would have a harder time than they normally do.

The game mode. Is. Fucked.

[AquaticPenguin]

Nobody around here having a problem with a lone wolf Kiowa pilot being able to just spam a cache with rockets and blow it up?

It's not necessarily a deliberate tactic taken, more one of opportunity. It's also harder to execute and easier to defend against since it's such an obvious threat.

Now, which is actually harder to accomplish? 2 man team sneaking into a cache area undetected? Orrrrrr some guy in helicopter spamming every building around the active cache marker on the map?

Kiowas have limited rockets and have to hit the cache dead on, c4 guys just need a jeep and can destroy the cache through walls. They don't need to be undetected, just quick enough to not be stopped (RPGs are quite slow to reposition, inaccurate enough they're not a guaranteed hit, and aren't a guarantee kill on a hit)

Also can't tell if sarcasm..

If you get in in direct contact with the cache, then that's a different story

Agreed

Kiowa can be downed by AK fire, people just don't shoot at it.

This is something I try to do, I'll fire away at the kiowa if I think i'm in a hard to hit position. Rarely kills them, but sometimes you can scare them off.

PPSH is great for just spraying bullets into the cockpit, sometimes hits the pilot, often makes them think twice, and the drum magazine lasts about as long as their approach if you spot them early.

[Mikemonster]

Conversely, don't cry if an entire game mode is designed to be no fun to play as one of the two teams who gets overmatch in practically every area, with the other team relying on not dying so that the deeply flawed intelligence system doesn't reveal the locations of objectives.

Bottom line: If no one spawned on the Ins team, the Coalition team would have a harder time than they normally do.

The game mode. Is. Fucked.

You're right, but that instance of nobody ever spawning is never actually going to happen so it's irrelevant.

Played as it is it can be fun, but I enjoy playing Insurgents side so maybe i'm biased. Although i'm trying to learn to play Blufor.

[Fligsnurt]

This wasn't intended as a suicide run. Story leading up to this was that we had assaulted the cache several times throughout 20 minutes and had been as a team wiped out and forced to regroup. So after 2 prior Helo insertions that failed our helo pilot decided to land us on the cache building itself and then was supposed to take off after everyone bailed out. Unfortunately he took a RPG right as he was lifting off. But regardless this is still a tactic that I used to help my team win the round but isn't something I feel should have worked out like it did. Quu helo insertion - YouTube I realize I'm flaming myself for using a cheap tactic but I do feel it takes from the overall realism feel of the game and ruins how the gamemode is designed to be played.

[Brainlaag]

Fligsnurt:

Why didn't you instead focus your attention towards an easier cache? That's basically the reason why there are two.

[PFunk]

You're right, but that instance of nobody ever spawning is never actually going to happen so it's irrelevant.

PRT C8B4 Archer I believe. L4gi's CATA team decided that they were losing too many caches and decided to keep all INS in main base. NATO was forced to do random sweeps and ultimately started to find and destroy enough caches that they felt it necessary to come back out and fight us. NATO lost by 2 caches, though they were both targeted and likely to come down after a bit more pressure.

Subsequently the rules were changed to ban this tactic.

Also, this battle was host to the coolest combined assault on Castle at the round start by BLUFOR that I was ever a part of. I believe the single squad defending castle must've shat themselves wondering where that blitzkrieg came from. Oh the memories.

The above points to two points. Number 1 - that it can and has been done and is somewhat effective. Number 2 - a good sweep will always turn up the cache but then it was Archer so it was pretty easy to sweep the isolated areas, much like it would be on a map like Kokan.

However, PRT is not the norm so yes its not likely to happen.

As for my comments about Kiowa, its about how little I care about the semantics of whats a fair tactic or not. Fact is Kiowas destroy caches that insurgents are handily defending. A good pilot won't get shot down. A good stealth team can get through, but a good perimeter should stop them.

Should we punish skill for the sake of handicapping the useless players who can't defend a sector or sit on an objective? Honestly how many AAS rounds are lost cause nobody would defend a flag? Should we nerf the attacking cap rate so that it requires even fewer defenders because "you just can't expect that kind of thing out of pubbers" as was said about adequately defending a cache perimeter from C4 teams?

Do to the C4 what was done to the Kiowa, then its hunky dory. Don't like how your INS team sucks at defending? Become a PR leadership god or something. Modding the game to suit incompetent teamwork levels is not good for the mod. Promoting team work but telling them its only like a cute social gathering, have fun, don't worry about being good or anything, is the most pathetic kind of teamwork imaginable. This would become the T-ball of realism mods. <- this paragraph not directed at Mikemonster specifically

Above not sarcasm for those interested.

[Kain888]

Conversely, don't cry if an entire game mode is designed to be no fun to play as one of the two teams who gets overmatch in practically every area, with the other team relying on not dying so that the deeply flawed intelligence system doesn't reveal the locations of objectives.

Weirdly enough the game mode is very fun to play although needs some major fixes (like caches spawns and locations). I do enjoy asymmetrical warfare and many people as well apparently. You can see a lot of servers playing only INS. So let's keep facts straight here. You may not like it, many people may not, there might be holes in the system, but exaggerating is lame. I love playing Iraq Insurgents so do my friends I see no reason why you would conclude someone designed mode to be no fun. It's cheap...

Bottom line: If no one spawned on the Ins team, the Coalition team would have a harder time than they normally do.

The game mode. Is. Fucked.

Same on some maps. Let's sat Barracuda. There is no bleed so you can just sit on carrier and shoot jdam on random places to win by ticket difference.

[badmojo420]

Reduce the blast radius of C4 to 1 or 2m.


While it's true that C4 can blow through objects in real life, it's stupid to think that it would penetrate through as much as it does in PR. And not just penetrate, but also completely detonate a pile of random munitions.

Not being able to level buildings or blow holes in walls hurts both teams in different ways, we shouldn't use an engine limitation as an excuse to give blufor an exploitable advantage.

[Rissien]

I agree with mojo on that, granted I havnt played in months but I did use c4 alot when it came to caches. However I only used it directly on a cache. Wed push in take out any defenders quickly, clear the room plant the c4 and run as I blew it and got out as fast as we could. Never been a big fan of the put c4 on the wall outside and blow it. Yes sometimes thatd be an oversight of the defense but then theres those small compounds that are impossible to defend from the outside and your holding attackers off just to have the cache 'randomly' blow up because someone blew it from outside you had no way of preventing

[CommunistComma]

While it's true that C4 can blow through objects in real life, it's stupid to think that it would penetrate through as much as it does in PR. And not just penetrate, but also completely detonate a pile of random munitions.

Not being able to level buildings or blow holes in walls hurts both teams in different ways, we shouldn't use an engine limitation as an excuse to give blufor an exploitable advantage.

^^^^^^^ +1