[Concept] More Technicals

[sylent/shooter]

There have been many things that have been suggested. One of them is that when it is going to be developed (by community modellers) it will not be able to depress enough to actually harm infantry. I.E it'll only be able to shoot from the rear and turn maybe 90 degrees either way. And will always be at an angle relevant so that no infantry could be slaughtered using it. https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f388-pr-bf2-community-modding/108111-vehicle-hilux-zpu-4-concept.html

and https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f388-pr-bf2-community-modding/108286-vehicle-toyota-dyna-wip.html

[Bringerof_D]

Ok, learn to read what I said and quit being so indirect with your snide comments.

FOR GAME PLAY BALANCE was there not a developer move to limit the ZPU ability to completely rape infantry?

YES, however the balance can be achieved without unrealistically nerfing the ZPU. if you limit it's angle, then you are seriously hindering it's ability to perform in one of it's major rolls. it is already on an elevated platform now you could simply go prone in any situation under 300m on level ground. could we possibly consider OTHER FORMS OF BALANCE. ability to read isnt the issue here, it's closed mindedness.

If anything i'd support a major increase in the deviation of the ZPU. thus against aircraft in the open the heavy wall of lead should still be deadly enough. while infantry on the ground might be luckier to find cover in the initial discovery of the weapon.

This is another issue that comes down to the players. If the blufor players are stupid then they will get slaughtered. play it realistically and you wont. keep your spacing and keep full awareness of your surroundings. always be near cover so you can hide when something large comes along. I will say this again like i have in many other threads, Proper drills saves lives.

ps. i'm generally a blufor player.

[rushn]

Gaza strip never gets bombed.....CAS must mean something other then Close Air Support as well I assume.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=6&cts=1331734120186&ved=0CF4QFjAF&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.telegraph.co.uk%2Fnews%2Fworldnews%2Fmiddleeast%2Fisrael%2F8345734%2FIsraeli-jets-bomb-Gaza-Strip.html&ei=VqZgT6L2DYiD0QGO8sSPBw&usg=AFQjCNFLd3akgfzNFOYEC7Sa_Sv25nzYOA

[Murphy]

could we possibly consider OTHER FORMS OF BALANCE. ability to read isnt the issue here, it's closed mindedness.

If anything i'd support a major increase in the deviation of the ZPU. thus against aircraft in the open the heavy wall of lead should still be deadly enough. while infantry on the ground might be luckier to find cover in the initial discovery of the weapon.

Agreed. There needs to be serious checks in place.

I'm only opposed to throwing in a shiny new rape-wagon if there are no real balances to keep blufor from being overwhelmed. In the end this ZPU will most probably be used like a .50 techie, which is a role that is fulfilled by said asset, except the ZPU will, by far, be much more ferocious when encountered. My fear is the guerrilla force will be coming closer in play style to a conventional force because a weapon that can down an Air Tank (Huey) in a few short moments can devastate everything short of that I'm not entirely sure how well Strykers/APCs stand up to this weapon. However I am sure we will get to see if/when this makes it ingame.

I know head to head the obvious victors will be blufor, I did not say it will be hard to destroy if/when the crew makes mistakes. I'm saying give this to a bunch of skilled operators and consider the outcome, don't be stuck thinking in the box as successful insurgent players cannot afford this luxury. I've got thousands of kills with both spg and 50 techies and 90% of the kills come from ambushing entirely oblivious victims. Correct positioning and the enemies lack of situational awareness are the key ingredients here, and with the ZPUs explosive rounds thrown into the mix it becomes IFV light.

This is why I am very very very wary of this weapon being used against infantry, consider my position more of a cautious and somewhat conservative one as opposed to being entirely negative.

PS- Didn't need articles about jet's bombing Gaza it was my sarcastic reply to the poster who made a comment about jets not bombing cities, and we all know it happens.

[Sgt.Desert Tiger[TR]]

PS- Didn't need articles about jet's bombing Gaza it was my sarcastic reply to the poster who made a comment about jets not bombing cities, and we all know it happens.

So you didnt understand what I said. I said CAS will never attack to targets which in close combat with their soldiers. And Gaza is not like this.

[Bringerof_D]

here's another idea for balance. Recoil.

Since this is mounted on a vehicle with suspension and what not we could have MAJOR recoil attributed to firing the ZPU. IF possible it would be ideal if the recoil was bound to the aim angle. the lower your angle the higher the recoil, this should allow it to still take out air targets easy but make it harder to hit ground. This is to simulate the way a vehicle would bounce around on it's suspension. the lower the angle you fire at the more rocking you'd get, while the higher you aim more of the force is directed straight down.

[spiked_rye]

here's another idea for balance. Recoil.

Since this is mounted on a vehicle with suspension and what not we could have MAJOR recoil attributed to firing the ZPU. IF possible it would be ideal if the recoil was bound to the aim angle. the lower your angle the higher the recoil, this should allow it to still take out air targets easy but make it harder to hit ground. This is to simulate the way a vehicle would bounce around on it's suspension. the lower the angle you fire at the more rocking you'd get, while the higher you aim more of the force is directed straight down.

If it can be done that would be the best solution I've heard so far, its realistic, would allow the asset to be used accuratly against aircraft, and limit it's usefullness against ground targets without nerfing it totally. Like that idea alot.

[Murphy]

;1744876']So you didnt understand what I said. I said CAS will never attack to targets which in close combat with their soldiers. And Gaza is not like this.

Except someone posted an article which I commented towards, and you come back with your daft responses that don't further the conversation. If you're trying to troll you're doing it wrong.

Did you even read the posts at all?

[Sgt.Desert Tiger[TR]]

Except someone posted an article which I commented towards, and you come back with your daft responses that don't further the conversation. If you're trying to troll you're doing it wrong.

Did you even read the posts at all?

Yes I am reading all of them but probably you dont.

Because I am asking can you show me a helicopter, jet or artillery/mortar attacking enemy while their soldier fighting with them in close combat(urban battle max distance 50-100m). In that case this assets will not attack enemy because avoid the harm their soldiers.

Also me and most pll who want zpu-techy not want zpu-4 mounted one(rarely used) we want zpu-2 mounted one. Also there will be loading unlike fixed one now. Also if they will not give the optic for zpu like now fixed ones it will be hard to hit target. With this much negative effect not enough for you guys???

Also chinook's minigun have exploding dmg since last patch and I didtn see many pll in here opposing about it if I am not wrong.(7.62 bullet making explosive dmg:shock

[40mmrain]

So, in conclusion of this thread.

The ZPU techi should be added to maps where the insurgents lose incredibly frequently to quell this.
The ZPU techi should be added to maps where the insurgents win and lose at an equal ratio, however BLUFOR's cas should be upgraded subsequently, or the techi should not be added at all.

Any questions?

[fabioxxxx]

Soon my dog of war... Soon
hehehe

transport technical for the win.

[rushn]

So, in conclusion of this thread.

The ZPU techi should be added to maps where the insurgents lose incredibly frequently to quell this.
The ZPU techi should be added to maps where the insurgents win and lose at an equal ratio, however BLUFOR's cas should be upgraded subsequently, or the techi should not be added at all.

Any questions?

well this discussion was suppose to be about adding more variety of technicals ut turned into ZPU techie argument

[40mmrain]

well this discussion was suppose to be about adding more variety of technicals ut turned into ZPU techie argument

well the only two were rocket artillery, and ZPU. Rocket artillery isnt worth discussing, it's hard to see it as OP, and it's decently realistic. Adding it would simply be more content, with no chance of obfuscating balance, which can only be seen as good.

[HMARS]

I think we're done here.

[PricelineNegotiator]

Make sure you understand which ZPU cannon you are talking about. There are different calibers for the ZPU's. I believe the ZPU which is in game would be called a "ZPU-14.5-4", denoting a ZPU with 4 14.5mm barrels. That ZPU is called the ZPU-4. There are also two other emplacements in question when you're talking about - the ZPU-23-2 and the ZSU-23-4. Those both fire the 23mm round, but are fixed in either 2 or 4 barrel configurations. However, the ZSU-23-4 is a cannon mounted within the Shilka, which is self-propelled.

ZPU-4: 14.5mm cannon with 4 barrels "stationary"
ZPU-23-2: 23mm cannon with 2 barrels "stationary"
ZSU-23-4: 23mm cannon with 4 barrels, which is self-propelled

Just pointing out that they are NOT the same caliber and definitely do not weigh the same, so please don't confuse the ZPU-23-2 as a 14.5mm cannon. I think the DEVs know, but when people are arguing about this stuff, I can't tell what their reasoning is based off of.

Limiting the amount of ammunition and also magazine size would be a good way to ensure proper use/balance of however this is mounted.

[godfather_596]

doesn't the hydra backblast kill operator? in any case zu23 technical is amazing all insurgents use it it'll be great for those pesky kiowas

[Rhino]

doesn't the hydra backblast kill operator?

They tend to either sit inside the vehicle, in front/under the launcher, or from a control wire, firing it from a distance.

[Wo0Do0]

My main concern is asset balance, not whether PR is staying consistent to real life armaments.

Currently the Insurgents have the SPG-9 techie, which is the prized "hard-counter" to APCs. It is balanced because there is only one of them, sometimes that results in a lot of flame when it ends up in the wrong hands, but I can't see a way to fix that currently.

We need a Anti-Air hard-counter equivalent. The Strela and .50 cal techie aren't effectively fulfilling that role at the moment. Similar to the SPG-9 techie. There will only be one of them, if it is used by the right group of people. You can have a very dynamic air to ground counter cycle.

[Hunt3r]

Just slap a 14.5mm ZPU to a technical, BTRs can trash helos on Muttrah, an extra 3 barrels firing should kill them even faster.

[Mongolian_dude]

It sure would be nice to see a ZPU 1 or 2 on the back of a flatbed. Would give the unconvntional forces a fighting chance against airpower.


...mongol...