No more bird watching?

[Souls Of Mischief]

That's not really the issue, though. IMO, weapons in PR should be deadlier. For example, I'm not that scared from rifle suppression, but if there is a SAW suppressing me, I'll keep my head down. But, hopefully, 1.0 with the deviation tweaks will change that.

[Lesten]

I'm willing to wait and see how the game turns out without binoculars, but I'm very skeptical to it. No binoculars is one of the main reasons I don't care much for Vietnam and Falklands.

Also, I would like to add that if binoculars are removed then ALL kits for conventional armies should have the option of scopes. Is there a realistic reason why the alternative version of medics, specialists, HATs etc. aren't allowed to have scopes on their rifles? ("Who needs to see what you're shooting at when you have a grappling hook?") Even fewer people will want to play as medics and that will hurt the game. I know some players prefer ironsights at all times but not everyone does.

And even fewer players will want to play as squad leaders because it'll be MUCH more work than it is now. Apart from your regular duties you'll be the only one able to see jack shit and the squad will completely rely on you for intel about targets. And PR can't really afford to lose squad leaders.

So, remove binoculars, fine... BUT GIVE THE OPTION OF SCOPED WEAPONS TO ALL KITS (of conventional armies)!

[Midnight_o9]

COuld you please stop with the assumptions like "people won't play this or that anymore..."
YOU don't like this or that, ok, but stop talking for other, you don't know everyone in PR.

Even fewer people will want to play as medics

I've never experienced a game where we were lacking medics, I often play medic and enjoy it a lot, and it's certainly not because of binos.
The lack of scopes for specialised kits is meant to reduce the combat ability of said kits to make them focus on their main ability, like medic, anti tank launcher, support like rope and such... etc...

And even fewer players will want to play as squad leaders because it'll be MUCH more work than it is now. Apart from your regular duties you'll be the only one able to see jack shit and the squad will completely rely on you for intel about targets. And PR can't really afford to lose squad leaders.

Most squadleaders play this role because they like to... LEAD... more leading work to do, happier leaders. The SM will now be kinda forced to listen to the SL, so for leaders it's a pretty good change more than a bad one.

[nAyo]

I only play medic, I never play anything else than medic. I would say that I use my binos as much as I use my main weapon, always helping te SL spot targets since you're not supposed to be the first one fighting. It might be good to take them out from scopped kits in teamplay improvement purposes, we'll see, but absolutely pointless if they're removed from kits such as the medic : how would this improve the gameplay?

I'm really looking forward to playing PRv1.0, and I remain hopeful about that binos removal thing.

[RazoR41]

I never used the bino's, so it doesn't matter for me.

[mockingbird0901]

Most squadleaders play this role because they like to... LEAD... more leading work to do, happier leaders. The SM will now be kinda forced to listen to the SL, so for leaders it's a pretty good change more than a bad one.

What I'm thinking as well. Will make keeping the squad working togethet that much more rewarding hopefully.

[Pvt.LHeureux]

You guys still don't understand that's it's easier to spot people and stuff a distance without binos because of how the game renders objects and terrain. A perfect map to test that is Fools Road, when unzoomed most of the trees have less leaves and bad LODs, so you can see people walking in the forest, then when you zoom you lose them behind the new better objects LODs.

The method to spot targets in PR is the following :

1. Scan around with your normal view.
2. Spot some black pixels at the distance.
3. Take your binoculars/scope to confirm they are enemy units.
4. Derp shoot

Now how it will be :

1. Scan around with your normal view.
2. Spot some black pixels at the distance.
3. Look at your map or use your scope to confirm they are enemy units OR wait for someone with binos to confirm.
4. Derp shoot

Using the map as always been the easiest way to confirm if what you see is enemy or friendly anyway.

[Anderson29]

I only play medic, I never play anything else than medic. I would say that I use my binos as much as I use my main weapon, always helping te SL spot targets since you're not supposed to be the first one fighting. It might be good to take them out from scopped kits in teamplay improvement purposes, we'll see, but absolutely pointless if they're removed from kits such as the medic : how would this improve the gameplay?

I'm really looking forward to playing PRv1.0, and I remain hopeful about that binos removal thing.

the bolded sentence in that quote is one of the worst things i hate about SLing. the fact your dumbass sqd members think they are helping when they are hurting the tactical advatage. think about it(i swear i would have to explain this shit everyday i played)... when everyone is on the ridge looking through binos it gives away intel if spoted ie the size of your sqd type of kits possibly and instead of someone just thinking its 1 man....now they know its a full sqd which will most likely get reported to other sqds instead of them thinking its just 1 man they could care less about.

me to my sqd when this happened the first time. "WTF r u guys doing...didnt i say stay down below the ridge...i dont need your god damn help spotting enemy....now get your f*ing guns out and pull security."

[nAyo]

After 17 pages you still feel forced to pull off that argument again. I think we've all clearly understood your point of view of anti-bino-guys, no need to repeat it again and again and again and again and again and again.

In what I said, I didn't mean sticking to the SL, aiming at the same direction, using binos whenever he does, etc. If I were in the situation you gave as an example, if there was an enemy LMG covering that ridge which has to be spotted quickly, why the fuck would I 'help' the SL try to spot it as well, taking the risk to be exposed and killed? I would stay in the back not showing myself it's obvious as hell.

It's about goddamn common sense.

[Lesten]

COuld you please stop with the assumptions like "people won't play this or that anymore..."
YOU don't like this or that, ok, but stop talking for other, you don't know everyone in PR.

Of course I can only speak for myself and those I play with regularly. But don't believe we're the only ones of this opinion.
And I don't think people won't play as medics, just that some might not find it as fun as it is now. I play medic once in a while but I might not be as keen on volunteering for it in the future. Same goes for other unscoped kits.

The lack of scopes for specialised kits is meant to reduce the combat ability of said kits to make them focus on their main ability, like medic, anti tank launcher, support like rope and such... etc...

I get that but that it could also be a good idea to throw a bone to those who otherwise would like to use those kits but won't because of the ironsights (and now no binos). They can still perform their specialized duties even if they have scoped rifles, and if they're good teamplayers they will.

Most squadleaders play this role because they like to... LEAD... more leading work to do, happier leaders. The SM will now be kinda forced to listen to the SL, so for leaders it's a pretty good change more than a bad one.

Well, yeah. But often when I play there's a lack of people stepping up to lead squads and there's a risk that even fewer will do it. I squad lead at times, when I'm in a good mood for it, but it's a lot of work and a lot of responsibility. Without a second pair of eyes you won't do much else than spotting for your squad and squad leading could lose some of its appeal. More rewarding maybe but also more exhausting.
On the other hand people might go SL just to get the officer kit with binos

[ComradeHX]

the bolded sentence in that quote is one of the worst things i hate about SLing. the fact your dumbass sqd members think they are helping when they are hurting the tactical advatage. think about it(i swear i would have to explain this shit everyday i played)... when everyone is on the ridge looking through binos it gives away intel if spoted ie the size of your sqd type of kits possibly and instead of someone just thinking its 1 man....now they know its a full sqd which will most likely get reported to other sqds instead of them thinking its just 1 man they could care less about.

me to my sqd when this happened the first time. "WTF r u guys doing...didnt i say stay down below the ridge...i dont need your god damn help spotting enemy....now get your f*ing guns out and pull security."

Of course they cannot simply remain hidden from direction of enemy while spotting possible enemies from other directions. Nope, not possible; stoopid squad.
/sarcasm

[Midnight_o9]

After 17 pages you still feel forced to pull off that argument again. I think we've all clearly understood your point of view of anti-bino-guys, no need to repeat it again and again and again and again and again and again.

In what I said, I didn't mean sticking to the SL, aiming at the same direction, using binos whenever he does, etc. If I were in the situation you gave as an example, if there was an enemy LMG covering that ridge which has to be spotted quickly, why the fuck would I 'help' the SL try to spot it as well, taking the risk to be exposed and killed? I would stay in the back not showing myself it's obvious as hell.

It's about goddamn common sense.

After 17 pages you still feel forced to pull off that argument again. I think we've all clearly understood your point of view of no-more-binos-will-ruin-the-game, no need to repeat it again and again and again and again and again and again.

I often play as medic, and I rarely do that as poping your head out to watch often end up with you dead killed by a sniper or a tank shell or something... I usually go to a safe place, relatively far from the rest of the squad, or in the center of the squad, the safest place. As Medic you are the most important asset of the squad, good leaders also often assign someone to my protection, someone who has to stick with me at all time. I rarely use my binos, and honestly as the others have binos, it's useless, you have an ironsight gun, super effective in CQB, let the ones with scopes spotting and just protect them on close calls.
As for the last part, except if you are using cheatcodes :
1 - ARs don't go on ridges, apart from stupid ones
2 - You'll only spot them once they opened fire at you if they were waiting for you, so... useless to say (I would be safe if it was a dangerous situation, you never know in PR)

Of course I can only speak for myself and those I play with regularly. But don't believe we're the only ones of this opinion.
And I don't think people won't play as medics, just that some might not find it as fun as it is now. I play medic once in a while but I might not be as keen on volunteering for it in the future. Same goes for other unscoped kits.

Sorry, assumptions still... many people will like that change, so I could say you're a minority because most of my mates agree with this change and we don't really care about the minority?

I get that but that it could also be a good idea to throw a bone to those who otherwise would like to use those kits but won't because of the ironsights (and now no binos). They can still perform their specialized duties even if they have scoped rifles, and if they're good teamplayers they will.

Assumption... again. This change was made to prevent lonewolves and you can't "mod players", and certainly can't go with a IF they are teamplayers MAYBE they wont waste assets.

Well, yeah. But often when I play there's a lack of people stepping up to lead squads and there's a risk that even fewer will do it. I squad lead at times, when I'm in a good mood for it, but it's a lot of work and a lot of responsibility. Without a second pair of eyes you won't do much else than spotting for your squad and squad leading could lose some of its appeal. More rewarding maybe but also more exhausting.
On the other hand people might go SL just to get the officer kit with binos

We lack SLs because it's a lot of responsabilities, a lot of communication, and quite skills demanding. Plus you have to know how to use the radio and all those stuff, and most people NEVER read PR manual or watch tutorials.
You can see it the other way around, maybe people will tend to go SL more because now they are more important, it's not just the dude putting markers on map, it will be actual leaders as in "no leader means you're screwed".

[Lesten]

Sorry, assumptions still... many people will like that change, so I could say you're a minority because most of my mates agree with this change and we don't really care about the minority?

Huh? So if my opinion isn't supported by a majority of players I shouldn't voice my concern?

All I said was that I and the guys I usually play with might not be as keen on playing with certain kits without binoculars or scopes. And yes, I ASSUME we're not the only ones thinking that but given some of the comments I've read in this 18 page thread or heard while playing I think it's a fair assumption. I never claimed it's what the majority of players think, I'm not psychic.

Assumption... again. This change was made to prevent lonewolves and you can't "mod players", and certainly can't go with a IF they are teamplayers MAYBE they wont waste assets.

Isn't that kind of point of removing the binoculars, to "mod players"?
And I think it's fair to say that good team players don't waste assets (in fact, it's basically the definition of team player). Since you need 4 guys in the squad for most kits I don't think people will start lonewolfing just because you give them a scope. If they do you can always kick them from the squad and perhaps even the server.

You can see it the other way around, maybe people will tend to go SL more because now they are more important, it's not just the dude putting markers on map, it will be actual leaders as in "no leader means you're screwed".

Possibly. And I hope you're right about that.

[Mikemonster]

Because most players play PR for the teamwork part, not for the l33t kill streaks and achievements. I definitely think we play different games Mike, no offense, but I really don't see PR like you do. And as a fairly experienced PR (0.3) I can assure you most experienced players still enjoy Infantry role a lot, and always will, like you said, it's the core of PR.

I played most around a year ago, I'll probably have run into you and played with you if you were about then. I got frustrated with the game and quite jaded and my enjoyment (and then play-time) dropped off a lot.

I know we both want PR to improve constantly and somehow we have different experiences with the game. I squad led 99% of the time when I played most often, and really want it to be something people aspire to and that the game rewards most.

Fingers crossed we get there, see you in the game if you're around mate.

[Midnight_o9]

I played most around a year ago, I'll probably have run into you and played with you if you were about then. I got frustrated with the game and quite jaded and my enjoyment (and then play-time) dropped off a lot.

I know we both want PR to improve constantly and somehow we have different experiences with the game. I squad led 99% of the time when I played most often, and really want it to be something people aspire to and that the game rewards most.

Fingers crossed we get there, see you in the game if you're around mate.

Hehe I'm pretty sure everyone here had these periods when you just get frustrated or bored and quit PR, I barely played last year due to real life stuff and a bit of frustration too, plus the fact that PR is really time consuming.
I hope for the best as well and I'm sure everything will be fixed rather soon if anything goes wrong, like if binos removal is really a bad thing be sure they'll be back very soon. Have faith in the devs!!!

@Lesten : I'm sorry I expressed myself rather badly. I just mean we can't assume a majority likes it or dislike it just because most people we know like or dislike, it's not relevant, we would need a poll with a significant number of answers to see what the community thinks (?) But till then I think it's better to argue without implying that "people will stop playing".
As for the second part, I totally support the scope choice for every kit, but fact is so far it worked pretty well at preventing people to go lonewolfing, like imagine a medic who can engage at distance and heal himself with his 11 patches? Freaking rambo!
And you can't possibly say "hey, just kick him", first, if you kick him from the squad he still have the kit, and therefore your squad doesn't, so your squad is definitely penalised more than that lonewolf. And I'm sure SLs don't want to manage such things and have to deal with those people (this is why there are more and more locked squads where SL invite only people they know... end up new players are alone in the harsh PR world and eventually leave)

[HunterMed]

COuld you please stop with the assumptions like "people won't play this or that anymore..."
YOU don't like this or that, ok, but stop talking for other, you don't know everyone in PR.

I've never experienced a game where we were lacking medics, I often play medic and enjoy it a lot, and it's certainly not because of binos.
The lack of scopes for specialised kits is meant to reduce the combat ability of said kits to make them focus on their main ability, like medic, anti tank launcher, support like rope and such... etc...



Most squadleaders play this role because they like to... LEAD... more leading work to do, happier leaders. The SM will now be kinda forced to listen to the SL, so for leaders it's a pretty good change more than a bad one.

And you are making assumptions just like everyone else here Which we have to because we are talking about an event in the future...

You are right people will be more concentrated on one job only then. But I ask myself do I want this?

On a map like Kashan or any other vehicle based map being a medic is not my favorite choice, and with no binocs I won't like it more but less.
And yes I assume there are many people who think the same way...

Also being concetrated on one job only takes away your abilities to do something, and that's not exactly what players want most of the time. Obviously a balance in PR must be found as we want a "realistic" approach where we are not all super soldiers (hence different kits).

I just think the binocs should stay for fun reasons and that you have something to do while the grenadier or whatever scope kit hits or misses its targets and you are not degraded to only stand around and listen to what the SL sees...

I always use the binoc, scoped or unscoped and it is a great tool to see the big picture (bigger than your mini scope).

Removal of binocs makes the game more difficult which at this point is not needed in my opinion.

[Heavy Death]

Medics job is to hunker down/watch the rear/return fire if needed (when not doing the medic part of the job obviously...), not to fuck around with binocs looking at the shiny tanks. That why it has no scope in the first place.

Go play something else, just go...

[Mikemonster]

On a shiny tank map good luck finding a medic in your squad!

[karambaitos]

As for the second part, I totally support the scope choice for every kit, but fact is so far it worked pretty well at preventing people to go lonewolfing, like imagine a medic who can engage at distance and heal himself with his 11 patches? Freaking rambo!

implying that the medic already isnt a rambo that mows down everything (even tanks, and jets, and helicopters), and then revives an entire squad flippin medics


anyway a great way to lower the amount of lonewolves would be to just remove the kill and death counters, i mean people that lone wolf or go and rush a squad alone do it only for the kills thatll show up on the scoreboard, i know i do it a lot (the rushing into stuff not the lonewolf part), if they dont have instant gratification theyll do it less, or not at all. The kill/death counter has been discussed so much and yet no change, and so counter intuitive to what the mod is striving for.

On a different note how am i suppose to be a medic spotter now, i mean ill actually have to play the role properly and pick an SL...

[Midnight_o9]

Removal of binocs makes the game more difficult which at this point is not needed in my opinion.

Damn, you're one step further, not even an assumption, you're stating something you haven't even tested yet! That's sick dude.

Also you keep saying being medic on a tank map like Kashan will be aweful but seriously, if you are infantry on kashan you have nothing to do in the open, you're either safe in bunkers or covered by armors. Fact is, you see tanks as an overpowered tool... You tend to forget that they are also super vulnerable to HAT and other vehicles... The fact that you don't have binocs anymore wont get you more killed by tanks than before... also tanks are a pretty bad exemple as they are big enough to be spotted in the distance, also with the limitation engine, in the distance some parts of the ground disappear and make things kinda fly... and therefore easier to spot.

As stated before, no leaf on trees, no complete terrain, black spot... you are too used to binocs, you should try to play a round without using your binocs and you'll see how easy it is to spot enemies in the distance without binocs.

And you never have "only one job" you're supposed to cover a position at all time, being aware of the surroundings, build stuff up... Also no more Binocs = one free slot for something else, maybe a shovel for the medic, or a new tool... wait and see.

You maybe always use binocs... I barely use them, as a medic, I'm often the only one with an unscoped gun so I better stay with gun ready in case of a close encounter than uselessly take the risk of being shot down while trying to look at things far away...

I also play at a resolution of 1368x780, which isn't a lot, and I really had no problem spotting stuff in the distance on Falklands, and I used to play on 1920x1080, it was indeed better but lower isn't that bad.

But again I play PR for the teamwork part, and pretty much only for that, I have other games like BF3 or MOH for the killing spree and the "fun" part, so maybe I'm just seeing the game in a different way you do.