Adding medic to Insurgents on skirmish layers

[MrTomRobs]

No man, they're fun. The 'independency' as a civilian in PR is one aspect that makes this modification so unique.

I'm more inclined to align with the 'Pathetic civi' route on this topic, simply because the civis don't have the option to align with either side. In RL, a civi can choose to give intel to Blufor or opfor. Because civis in PR can only give intel to Opfor because you can only define 2 'teams' with the BF2 engine, a civi pretty much equals insurgent with a spawn delay, and they just piss you off so you just end up killing more.

In a perfect world when PR2 has been completed and they've created their own modified engine with 3 or more sides to a game, then yes, civis would be a viable option because they can defect (or even go double agent so to speak) for either side. However, civis should be able to be shot regardless because of the nature of the combat zone. Even if they don't have a weapon, 9 times out of 10 that civi is either telling the opfor where they're getting shot from.

I think by actually having a medic would be overall better for gameplay within the limits of the engine.

[Stemplus]

I guess there should a medic kit for insurgents, that would have a pistol or a scorpion, and the civi would stay with the same loadout as it is now. This way people would be able to choose if they want to stay more with their squad and fight, or have a rope, binos and well, be... civilian.


By the way not every civilian wants to stone you to death or bait you into an ambush, today on karbala 2 civilians actually saved my life. They were giving me patches, and covering me with their own body. After the insurgents got killed or ran away, these civilians let me walk away, they even let me take their RPG (from a recently destroyed cache, I only had a crewman and I was bleeding because I got ambushed by IED). Of course, this story would be too sweet, so while I was going to the nearest FOB, (I don't think I should call it near, it was 2km away..) I got shot 100m from the fob. Lovely.

[Hunterman0101]

No man, they're fun. The 'independency' as a civilian in PR is one aspect that makes this modification so unique.

What 'independency' if there are bluefour noobs that kill insurgents with out any reason.Need to be a bigger punish if they are killing ins.

[ghostfool84]

I guess there should a medic kit for insurgents, that would have a pistol or a scorpion, and the civi would stay with the same loadout as it is now. This way people would be able to choose if they want to stay more with their squad and fight, or have a rope, binos and well, be... civilian.


...

#2

I like to play PR because its Squad and teamorientated and if you are Bluefor in INS or play AAS and play as medic, it is fun for me to support my squad and have the ability to fight. But as Insurgent we often dont have one who wants to play civi, and nobody is there to heal. Its a completly different role to every other kit in pr and takes away much of the "play together" spirit if you are not interesented in this no fighting role. And if you dont like and are not good in this role you are giving much intel away to the blue for but if you want to have a healer u have no choice...
Thats the main reason i dont like to play as insurgent. It would be nice if there were a medic kit with lee enfield or pistol and maybe decreased number of field dressings as alternative/addition to the civilian for those who dont want to stay with binos on the roof.

sry for bad english

[risegold8929]

I'm more inclined to align with the 'Pathetic civi' route on this topic, simply because the civis don't have the option to align with either side. In RL, a civi can choose to give intel to Blufor or opfor. Because civis in PR can only give intel to Opfor because you can only define 2 'teams' with the BF2 engine, a civi pretty much equals insurgent with a spawn delay, and they just piss you off so you just end up killing more.

And it is our fault that you can't control yourself? This is exactly why I love being a civilian, because ill tempered BluFor like you keep killing me, never to reveal another known cache. Control your anger, use teamwork and grab your squad's specialist and shoot my ***.

Civvies are just another piece of the puzzle that helps the Insurgents to be able to balance against the BluFor. While the BluFor are all running around in their tanks with zoom and thermals, the civvies can relay information to the Insurgents without having to risk their head being blown off.
Balance does not always have to come from the exact same assets on each side.

[MrTomRobs]

And it is our fault that you can't control yourself? This is exactly why I love being a civilian, because ill tempered BluFor like you keep killing me, never to reveal another known cache. Control your anger, use teamwork and grab your squad's specialist and shoot my ***.

Civvies are just another piece of the puzzle that helps the Insurgents to be able to balance against the BluFor. While the BluFor are all running around in their tanks with zoom and thermals, the civvies can relay information to the Insurgents without having to risk their head being blown off.
Balance does not always have to come from the exact same assets on each side.

I wasn't saying I'm the one killing the civvis, but I've seen plenty of rounds where civvis just keep running out and then getting blown apart, but my problem is that the role of the civilian in PR isn't really living up to its real life counterpart because of the way the engine has been developed in that it cannot allow 'true' civilians.

I suppose the crux of my argument is that in PR, a civilian isn't really a civilian, instead it's a collaborator, and in most rules of engagement, acts that show collaboration with an enemy force allow for force to be used. All 'civilian' kits in pr are geared towards helping the opfor, which really should mean that they should be able to be killed without punishment, which would make sense to create an insurgent medic kit that is armed to more suit the engine on which PR is built.

[Mikemonster]

Don't forget the civvy isn't a cililian, we just misname the kit that for convenience sake. It's a collaborator kit. Just like in real life, often in a counter insurgency forces know someone is working for the enemy but aren't allowed to shoot at them due to ROE. Northern Ireland is a good example.

[MrTomRobs]

Don't forget the civvy isn't a cililian, we just misname the kit that for convenience sake. It's a collaborator kit. Just like in real life, often in a counter insurgency forces know someone is working for the enemy but aren't allowed to shoot at them due to ROE. Northern Ireland is a good example.

Hmm, good point! Didn't really think of NI as an example, Kudos!

Not actually read the OP for a while, but it might be an idea to add both a collaborator kit AND a medic kit to insurgency? Obviously with differing roles? Possibly this was suggested already

[Stemplus]

if so then it would be a nice addition to remove their icon from the map (if possible)

[saXoni]

And it is our fault that you can't control yourself? This is exactly why I love being a civilian, because ill tempered BluFor like you keep killing me

This is exactly why the civilian kit is so pathetic. You're not a civilian, you're simply an insurgent without a gun, and you're able to run around pissing people off. Serious changes are required in order to keep the kit.

As some people already have stated; you can't choose which side to support. You're stuck on the insurgent team, you can't give BLUFOR any intel, which basically makes you an insurgent, and nothing less than that. You can be jumping up and down throwing rocks at the opposite team like a fucking spastic and the other team can't do jack shit about it because there are three armed insurgents with AKs waiting around the corner.

[Navo]

Besides, the intel penalty isn't even high enough to properly punish Blufor for killing civilians. Finding unknowns is a piece of cake, and as nearly all teams in insurgency are incompetent, killing enough insurgents to counter the penalty is easy.
I just shoot all civies that throw rocks in my direction.

[risegold8929]

This is exactly why the civilian kit is so pathetic. You're not a civilian, you're simply an insurgent without a gun, and you're able to run around pissing people off. Serious changes are required in order to keep the kit.

As some people already have stated; you can't choose which side to support. You're stuck on the insurgent team, you can't give BLUFOR any intel, which basically makes you an insurgent, and nothing less than that. You can be jumping up and down throwing rocks at the opposite team like a fucking spastic and the other team can't do jack shit about it because there are three armed insurgents with AKs waiting around the corner.

If the civvy kit even had a choice to help BluFor, that would make the teams extremely unbalaced. Why? They can tell them where the Caches are (e.g. Leading them there through movement or if VOIP was somehow enabled between teams). Teams will be unbalanced. You may actually have only 25 actual people playing "for" (either killing BluFor, reviving, healing, reducing intel points) vs 39 BluFor players as 7 players decided to defect to BluFor.

PR cannot represent all aspects of reality, and some things are needed to be added to balance out the teams or else you face domination. The civvy kit does this. It forces BluFor to check their fire instead of shooting any arab that moves, whereas the Insurgents can shoot at any BluFor without blinking which closes the imbalance due to better Assets and Scopes/Weapons, and it allows the Insurgents to actually delay BluFor getting intel (only when faced with idiots who don't check fire on insurgents) so they can wait just a little longer before BluFor armour comes rolling in and blasting everything apart.

I honestly don't see why you have such a problem with civvy kit. They are just there throwing stones, they can't do any real damage except revive insurgents and/or delay intel if your team decides to shoot them. I love seeing civvies when I am Blufor, I show them the end of my shotgun whenever I can, and I love being a civvy as Insurgent so I can be shown the end of an AR or MG.

I love the kit just the way it is, it's up the players to cope with it and develop strategies to get him or ignore him.

[SShadowFox]

If the civvy kit even had a choice to help BluFor, that would make the teams extremely unbalaced. Why? They can tell them where the Caches are (e.g. Leading them there through movement or if VOIP was somehow enabled between teams). Teams will be unbalanced. You may actually have only 25 actual people playing "for" (either killing BluFor, reviving, healing, reducing intel points) vs 39 BluFor players as 7 players decided to defect to BluFor.

PR cannot represent all aspects of reality, and some things are needed to be added to balance out the teams or else you face domination. The civvy kit does this. It forces BluFor to check their fire instead of shooting any arab that moves, whereas the Insurgents can shoot at any BluFor without blinking which closes the imbalance due to better Assets and Scopes/Weapons, and it allows the Insurgents to actually delay BluFor getting intel (only when faced with idiots who don't check fire on insurgents) so they can wait just a little longer before BluFor armour comes rolling in and blasting everything apart.

I honestly don't see why you have such a problem with civvy kit. They are just there throwing stones, they can't do any real damage except revive insurgents and/or delay intel if your team decides to shoot them. I love seeing civvies when I am Blufor, I show them the end of my shotgun whenever I can, and I love being a civvy as Insurgent so I can be shown the end of an AR or MG.

I love the kit just the way it is, it's up the players to cope with it and develop strategies to get him or ignore him.

I don't think that's what he meant, actually, the civi can help the BLUFOR, but he'll get banned as well as the BLUFOR guys that accepted the help.

I think he meant that, since the civilians aren't a separated Faction (a third team) it'll be fixed to help the Insurgents and won't have any actual chance to help the BLUFOR if they wish, without getting banned.

If it was possible, civilians could get a map with the location of the caches (in a 200 meters radius from the marker), and the BLUFOR wouldn't have the intelligence points anymore nor the map with the approximated location of the caches, then they would need to conquer the "hearts and minds" of the civilians in order to have access to the cache locations.

But as this isn't possible, remove civilians.

[risegold8929]

I don't think that's what he meant, actually, the civi can help the BLUFOR, but he'll get banned as well as the BLUFOR guys that accepted the help.

I think he meant that, since the civilians aren't a separated Faction (a third team) it'll be fixed to help the Insurgents and won't have any actual chance to help the BLUFOR if they wish, without getting banned.

If it was possible, civilians could get a map with the location of the caches (in a 200 meters radius from the marker), and the BLUFOR wouldn't have the intelligence points anymore nor the map with the approximated location of the caches, then they would need to conquer the "hearts and minds" of the civilians in order to have access to the cache locations.

But as this isn't possible, remove civilians.

Oh I see.

Anyway, I still disagree with removing civvys. I believe they really do help balance out the game a bit. They remove intel points that the Insurgnets lose to being cannonfodder of enemy Scopes/APC's/Choppers/Tanks, Whatever, you name it. If it wasn't for civvys, almost every INS game would be over in a matter of 30-60minutes unless the INS team decided to hide for 20 minute interludes due to the amount of kills BluFor can rack up and gather intel points.

[SShadowFox]

There's something that I've seen being talked over here, the called "counters", if the USMC have the Viper in Muttrah, then the MEC should have a powerful asset as well, that is the 30mm MTLB.

So if the BLUFOR have 2 APCs and 6 Armed Vehicles, then the INS should have enough RPGs and IEDs to counter them, if it's not possible to give the INS enough firepower to counter the assets the BLUFOR will get without getting unrealistic, then the BLUFOR should get less vehicles.

The INS team biggest "counter" is the civilian, he can just walk anywhere he want and search for FOs and Mortars without being killed, which is unfair, I simply shot them which is easier.

It doesn't make sense telling that INS would get overrun easier, the Taliban doesn't have the collaborators, doesn't have pick-up kits, but are still awesome and hard to fight against.

[Psyrus]

The INS team biggest "counter" is the civilian, he can just walk anywhere he want and search for FOs and Mortars without being killed, which is unfair, I simply shot them which is easier.

They can easily be killed/arrested, just bring a shotgun. Even at range, with no body armour values they go down extremely easily to the shotgun.

[Mouthpiece]

This is a really, really good idea for Insurgency game mode. No, really - think about it. Now it's somewhat a problem - most people clearly dislike civi kit. That's why insurgents are using "run -> get killed -> respawn" tactics, not "run -> get killed -> revive" tactics. Basically that means BLUFOR is much more OP as they mostly have a medic in squad.

Please add a medic class in Insurgency. If it will fail, it can be taken out. But I know it will work perfectly and improve Insurgency a lot (now some people really dislike it).

It would make insurgent gameplay much more fun.

One thing that would probably have to change are the ticket count that insurgents have - if there will be a dedicated medic, the ticket count should be lower as the squads will use medic to revive them when needed/possible. Not like now when there's usually no civi in squad, and the smurf doesn't stop when you yell at him in Mumble.

[risegold8929]

It doesn't make sense telling that INS would get overrun easier, the Taliban doesn't have the collaborators, doesn't have pick-up kits, but are still awesome and hard to fight against.

I would have to disagree with this. They are too easy to fight against, the only reason the rounds can last as long as they do is crazy hard caches such as the caves on Lashkar Valley.

the ticket count should be lower

Have you seen the amount of Insurgents that get killed? Besides, INS doesn't have tickets for deaths, just caches.

As Psyrus mentioned, Civilians are easy enough to counter with a shotgun. TBH all I am hearing is that BluFor is too lazy to grab a shotgun kit and actually use it against the civvies.

[40mmrain]

civies are broken as fuck but nothing is as hilarious as pulling a shotgun out of the backseat of an APC and blasting a civi or two thats jumping around on your armour

take that you smug *****

[Walmarx]

civies are broken as fuck but nothing is as hilarious as pulling a shotgun out of the backseat of an APC and blasting a civi or two thats jumping around on your armour

take that you smug *****

^Totally done this, it is a truly wonderful feeling.

Arresting civies with the shotgun is one of my very favorite things to do in PR. They dance around inside their bubble of perceived invulnerability, and then catch a cranium full of buckshot from a rooftop. Ahh yes, that glorious "bleep" and bold, amber text, confirming your juicy intel boost, are truly reward enough to justify an entire life and death.

Conversely, I also love playing the Collaborator. I gladly trade in my rifle for a badge of limited immunity, and even more so, a license to troll the ever living hell out of Blufor tards. Every time I can harass or confuse a western imperialist to put me in the dirt, I rejoice in my victory and arise anew, class III trolling permit in hand.

Seriously though, Collaborators add a great deal of fun and complexity (a rare combination indeed) to Insurgency. It would be nice to see all civies, even those not filling the role of squad leader, given the ability to place map markers, if possible. I also support the addition of an insurgent medic, but perhaps give him fewer field dressings and epipens. As it stands, many Collaborators will choose to avoid reviving fallen teammates, to avoid losing their civilian status.

Also, about the Taliban, please return the Lee Enfield to its former glory. I cannot understand why its deviation was so damnably worsened, and I pray nightly on an altar of blood and conquest that 1.0 shall see its power restored. That is all.