Civilians killing with rocks?

[Truism]

Before anyone feels the need to say it, yes, a 9mm can cause a lot more tissue damage than a rock. But not if it hits a plate. "Heavily armoured" targets are all but impervious to 9mm these days. And that was the example he used.

Edit: and the science of throwing things turns out to be fantastically interesting. Did you know the fastest an object can be thrown is determined by the upper limit of the elbow's capacity, not by muscle effort? If, for example, a pitcher threw a ball any faster, their arm would snap, but that the upper limits of torque generated by muscular effort are sufficient to throw a much heavier weight at almost the same speed as a baseball?

[Mikemonster]

What mechanism limits the muscles to not exceed the strength of the bone, out of interest?

[Truism]

It's the elbow joint actually. Apparently 40nm of torque is the most it can take and it's the highest point of force in the system. I don't know the biomechanical system that creates the feedback and limits it, but no matter how strong someone is they won't exceed roughly 40nm of torque on their elbow, which is why the max speed for pitching is so similar for so many pitchers (ie. less than 10% variation between records and normal throws).

Edit (some months later, because I'm still finding this really interesting): This is what happens when you break the body's control mechanisms and throw harder: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unF08R9YcOQ

[Henrique_Dalben]

There's a reason for that. Pistol rounds can't penetrate kevlar, let alone steel/ceramic plates, though IIRC, headshots are still one hit kills with the pistols. The rocks take 4 hits to kill at close range; i. e. the range at which you easily hit someone in the face with a rock in real life. If civies have closed to that range, you should be able to easily arrest them, or shoot them with a shotgun.

I know pistol rounds can't penetrate kevlar, but neither can a rock. I played with a civvie mob of 9 civvies stoning BLUFOR squads all day, as it was instakill at every single soldier. And if we're talking plates, 5,56 or 7,62 shouldn't make it through SAPI and ESAPI plates either. But for the sake of balance they do, the same way that for the sake of balance rocks shouldn't kill with 4 rocks to the chest either.

Oh well, last time I checked you cannot kill with a rock at 40 m. Again, did you understood the issue?

Oh, but you can! Don't get me started on how much fun it is to get 6-7 civvies and start a rock artillery at BLUFOR squads. You won't kill them all, but with some luck you can get all of them bleeding heavily.

[Pronck]

Stop frikkin whining about those bloody stones , if you can't even stand a civilian with only rocks , why bother fighting against armed insurgents? If they are a problem to you either scare them away or shoot them. Or even arrest them , but I guess you BLUFOR whores are too scared for that. Anyone complaining about those stones is a sissy.

[Henrique_Dalben]

Stop frikkin whining about those bloody stones , if you can't even stand a civilian with only rocks , why bother fighting against armed insurgents? If they are a problem to you either scare them away or shoot them. Or even arrest them , but I guess you BLUFOR whores are too scared for that. Anyone complaining about those stones is a sissy.

Armed insurgents i can shoot, civilians i can't. Arresting a group of 4+ civilians without a shotgun is impossible, as they will stone you to death and you can't do anything. Even if you do have a shotgun, you can only have one specialist in your squad, a marksmen shoot him dead and the civies gang up on you. It has happened before, and it will happen again for as long as i'm able to stone BLUFOR to death with no consequences.

[Pronck]

You can shoot civilians , shoot one of the four and they will bugger off. If you people even complain about those stones what's next then? The "unarmed" kit's fists?

[40mmrain]

You can shoot civilians , shoot one of the four and they will bugger off.

yes, the civilians whose object to die, which aids their team in victory will FLEE when the enemies are helping them accomplish their goal.

[tankninja1]

Honestly the whole civi system is pretty abused. Rocks are a highlight of this because they can throw rocks and all you can do is run after them with a relatively useless restrainer that is hard to use when they are bunny hopping around.

Besides in a hot and heavy battle how many "innocent" civis are really around.

[Murphy]

I think the root of the issue is how civilians/collaborators meta-game. Had there been a mechanic in place to ensure civilians treat their lives as they would in reality we would have a lot less of these really odd situations in which civilians are throwing themselves into the line of fire to serve no ultimate goal other then getting shot. Martyrdom could easily be sighted as reasoning for such behavior but martyrs have a cause and are sacrificing themselves for a tangible goal, this cannot be simulated in PR as much as we would all like. A martyr will fight and stand for what he believes to be right, while our ingame counterparts are simply running into splash damage from heavier ordinance, or acting in a fashion no human would ever consider in real life.

[40mmrain]

I think the root of the issue is how civilians/collaborators meta-game. Had there been a mechanic in place to ensure civilians treat their lives as they would in reality we would have a lot less of these really odd situations in which civilians are throwing themselves into the line of fire to serve no ultimate goal other then getting shot. Martyrdom could easily be sighted as reasoning for such behavior but martyrs have a cause and are sacrificing themselves for a tangible goal, this cannot be simulated in PR as much as we would all like. A martyr will fight and stand for what he believes to be right, while our ingame counterparts are simply running into splash damage from heavier ordinance, or acting in a fashion no human would ever consider in real life.

a well articulated argument.

The civilian is mostly broken and doesnt serve the game well. The ROE are unrealistic in lots of ways too. Youre definitely ALLOWED to shoot dudes holding binoculars looking at you while a guy next to him is blasting away at your guys with a PKM lol.

[Elirah]

How about that:
Make the punish for the Bluforteam much worse -10 Tickets, -10 Intel, Stats : 0 -100 0.
However, if the Civi dies by whatever Bullet, he gets the normal punishment (1:30 Spawntime?).

What that does: I often see bluefor raping the civis, now its really bad for the bluefor team and bluefor may stop killing civis without them being a harm. However, most people wont like to wait 1 minute and 30 seconds to spawn: civis get more rare on the battlefield, maybe no civimob at all. So the life of a civi get much more valuable, they dont like to die often, and if they die, the bluefor suffer a much greater punishment.
What do you think?