[Vehicle] Fuchs 1A8 [WIP]

[Surround]

Puuuh, all bits done.

Ill make wire shots next. Tricount now 19,5k ops: But there are many bits that I havent even optimized. And there are few details that have waay too many polygons.

[Amok@ndy]

its looking really great surround but dont forget that the ~10k limit includes the Interior, guess you havent done anything in this direction yet ?

[Surround]

Nnnope
Including interior too aww sheet. ha ha ha.

Ill make the interior in different way. Ill start with low poly. Because I learned that for making models for bf2 doesnt need hi poly. Its just so easy to make hipoly details, but there isnt just room for the geometry :/

It helps little bit, but making too much detail in the end doesnt help much

[Surround]

No the wires.

[Surround]

More pictures

[Doc.Pock]

Oh mate optimize them tires should just he a simple cylinder with another one extruded. The rest is normals will give you 1k tris possibly

Sent from my magic contraption using Magic

[Surround]

And two more. And where to take start taking details away But now I go sleep. Ill be back tomorrow working on this again after work

[Amok@ndy]

Nnnope
Including interior too aww sheet. ha ha ha.

Ill make the interior in different way. Ill start with low poly. Because I learned that for making models for bf2 doesnt need hi poly. Its just so easy to make hipoly details, but there isnt just room for the geometry :/

It helps little bit, but making too much detail in the end doesnt help much

nowadays its always good to have a highpoly, so we could use the Fuchs for following projects like PR:ArmA or PR2

[lucky.BOY]

This looks like a perfect low polyu model to me. For newer engine than Refractor 2, that is

You should open the gunner's hatch.

There are some cyllinders with too much sides, like the back door hinges and thos elights on the back, but to get as many tris off as you can, i wouldnt leave any of those small cylinders with more than 8 sides. Then you will have to start deleting small details, i fear.

The interior for 3p model needs to be really lowdetail, its seen only by players outside of the vehicle.

[Surround]

Btw, does the 1p interior include to the 10k limit?

[lucky.BOY]

No, thats a separate model. For all i know 1p interior alone can be 10k tris (with things like hood still in it, for sure). You can make multiple LODs of the geom0, which means that you can have one model for 3p, one for 1p interior, and even one for 1p gunner's point of view, with stuff in his vicnity being more detailed, but sides, bottom and probably the whole interior deleted from that model.

[Rhino]

This I really think you could do in 8k tris quite easily, 9k tris I would say tops since its basic shape is really, pretty basic and a lot of the details can and should be done with a normal map rather than polys. Right now your spending waay too many tris on the tiny little details that add pretty much nothing other than if you get really up close and personal with this.

As for tri counts, 10k tris is really the absolute limit this should be for its 3p lod0 model, but tbh, I think you could make it a lot lower than that without loosing much detail.

If a interior is included in the 3p model that's really about if its going to be seen or not. If you have a rear hatch that opens up or some other way of being able to see the interior, you need a basic, low poly interior as part of the 3p model like the same you would have for a cockpit and passenger area of a helicopter. Best way to do this is to make a really simple one then bake the normals and texture off the 1p model with its textures and normals for the best looking, lowest poly and quickest result (although you will need to leave the baking part out until the 1p model has been made and textured).
3p: http://i.imgur.com/QUBVSbi.jpg
3p lighting: http://i.imgur.com/9vpFjs0.jpg
1p: http://i.imgur.com/2fLHLFC.jpg

But for an APC, a passenger interior etc really shouldn't be part of the 3p model in BF2 since there is no good way of opening up an APC and having players climb in and out, and they just appear out side when they exit as we all know. If you look inside the 3p model of the AAVP7A1 you won't find an interior:


But if you look at its 1p model you can see an interior:


But TBH the AAVP7A1's interior isn't as optimized as it could be, in the respect that the driver and gunner are also loading the passenger interior, and worst of all its textures, which they can't even see. If they where two different lods the driver and gunner wouldn't need to load them, like on the Wessex (although its 1p models use 3p textures since no proper, high detailed 1p models and textures have been made for it) but this is how the AAV should be setup and what you should aim to do:
3p lod0:


1p lod0 (pilots see this):


1p lod1 (passengers see this):



As for the actual 1st person tri count of each 1p LOD, a low as you can possibly make it really with trying to add more detail for the bits that are in the face of the player, so turret should be much more rounded up etc but you can have 1p models with 10k tris without any significant problems, but the important thing is to not waste the tris on things the players can't see/notice.

[Psyrus]

Quick question about this 10k tri limit... It's a guideline, not an engine limit, right? What is the reasoning behind it, assuming that LODs are done properly?

Reasons I can think of:

• Higher poly mesh means bigger mesh file size, which means more memory consumed
• More tris = bigger texture size needed (I don't think so, but I know jack about the texturing process)
• It'll be a performance killer because the refractor engine dies after trying to render 10k tris on one object (a fallacy)
• It's a performance killer having 20k tris rendering out at range, but it's inefficient to have many LODs sapping up valuable game-memory.

Have I missed anything?

[Rhino]

It is a guideline yes, there is a limit how many tris a mesh can have but it is pretty damn high.

With good lods, it isn't too much of a problem, biggest problem is mesh memory and having many objects of high poly near each other all rendering in lod0 but providing the object has good lods, with a much significantly lower lod1 than lod0 it isn't soo bad.

Texture space is a slight issue but not a significant one, really comes down to how well the packing is at the end of the day.

[Surround]

Well, it seems that i need some interior reference pictures. Pm if you know some good pics. From the cab and the crew area

But thanks for the info rhino.

[Mineral]

this might be of help (to lazy to PM soooowry )

Fuchs Light Armored Vehicle Walk Around
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... enraum.jpg
TPz 1 Fuchs Hummel Page 1

[Tim270]

10k is just a number, you can go over and under it a bit, it just needs to be justified as we have a lot of vehicles with really bad LODs so having to draw so many triangles is a problem for us. While, in most instances, adding geometry is nearly always cheaper than a texture solution.

Kill the majority of tris under the vehicle though, the suspension/axl's and inside of wheels are only seen so rarely you dont need much tris there at all.

Remember you need to weld up as much as possible too as Z-fighting will happen, all the small bolts/nuts are ones to watch. It does not really matter if it is a small isolated one, but like a hinge assembly will be super obvious when the whole thing is flickering.

[Psyrus]

10k is just a number, you can go over and under it a bit, it just needs to be justified as we have a lot of vehicles with really bad LODs so having to draw so many triangles is a problem for us. While, in most instances, adding geometry is nearly always cheaper than a texture solution.

Exactly, which is why I was a little perplexed about the 10k number being thrown around. 9k with bad lods is way worse than 18k with good lods afaik, but then again, that's why I ask these things.

You guys are awesome!

[Surround]

Actually my hull is almost solid. Only separate parts are turret parts.

Small parts are isolated because it would just add shetload of polygons

[Rhino]

[quote=""'[R-DEV"]Tim270;1868734']10k is just a number, you can go over and under it a bit, it just needs to be justified as we have a lot of vehicles with really bad LODs so having to draw so many triangles is a problem for us. While, in most instances, adding geometry is nearly always cheaper than a texture solution.[/quote]

Ye, the need to be justified is the main thing here. Spending lots of tris on small details that can't be seen, rarely be seen or worst wont be seen, simply isn't acceptable but if its a complicated object that needs the tris to look the way it needs to look, then its fine providing it is as low as it can be and had good LODs.

Exactly, which is why I was a little perplexed about the 10k number being thrown around. 9k with bad lods is way worse than 18k with good lods afaik, but then again, that's why I ask these things.

Yes, but there is mesh memory and complied vertex count which is a bit of a problem, but overall, yes, a high poly object with good lods is far better than a medium poly object with bad lods, but still not ideal.

[quote="Surround""]Actually my hull is almost solid. Only separate parts are turret parts.

Small parts are isolated because it would just add shetload of polygons[/quote]

Providing they are removed off in lod1 and at a really short distance before they zfight, and the faces under them are not black shadows and are ideally have the texture and normals baked of the bolt or w/e that was above them, that's fine, providing your poly count isn't stupidly high because of it, then you might want to consider just baking them onto the texture.