Armor on Insurgency Maps

[smgunsftw]

I've played more games than I can count where a $2 million dollar vehicle is taken down in the blink of an eye by a SPG, LAT, HAT, or Arty IED. Although this isn't entirely realistic, I can understand this was implemented to balance the game out for Opfor forces; the best thing we can do is deal with it.

The fragile aspect of armor is more clearly demonstrated in Insurgency maps, where the terrain is mostly urban and close quarters combat, meaning a change from traditional AAS tactics of engaging targets over longer ranges. Urban settings block out heat signatures from thermal and break up the line of view for vehicles; the compactness of urban environment also allows for one easily-placed IED to take out a entire armoured column of vehicles, or a HAT popping out of nowhere and killing an APC instantly.

Now you might think staying afar from the battle may solve this problem, but a SPG techy or an experienced player with a HAT kit can take you down without you even seeing him. Plus, you are not supporting infantry that are planning to take out a cache (which usually results in them dying and complaining about a lack of APC support . According to the PR manual, APCs are to support infantry columns to increase effectiveness, but what ends up happening most of the time during a combined armor/inf assault is the APC being taken out by a RPG or SPG, and the infantry dying from LMG or HMG fire.

What is the best way one can keep armour alive on insurgency maps, as well as playing the objective and supporting the team?

[Jolly]

Hey smgunsftw,
If you are new to this game, you should try inf first instead armor, then u will know where should be a good spot to ambush BLUFOR.
Yes, armor is supposed to support inf sq, and armor is unlikely to be destoried by small fire arms. I use them to cover the road and key position more. not actually really to find the ins and kill'em all.(Block off the road is useful when attacking known, INS can not reinforce cache after died.)
RPG and bomb car or known as BIG RED, are real threat.
Never forget, you are not alone! Go with other apcs or tank, smoke some area. more important, keep good communication with infantry ppl and they will take care of the armless RPG guy.


One more thing, armors are big *** target. they can attract lots of attention, which makes it possible for infantry ppl to destory the cache easier.

[Sgt. Mahi]

In my opinion armor should avoid entering urban areas. I find the best support a armored vehicle can provide is from a distance of the edge of the city shooting everything that pops up near the enemy cache while the infantry is moving in. This usually allows the infantry to get really close to the cache before meeting resistance. But being alone in the open as armored vehicle is dangerous because of bomb cars. You should try to position yourself so it's hard fot the enemy to sneak up from behind.

[ComradeHX]

I've played more games than I can count where a $2 million dollar vehicle is taken down in the blink of an eye by a SPG, LAT, HAT, or Arty IED. Although this isn't entirely realistic, I can understand this was implemented to balance the game out for Opfor forces; the best thing we can do is deal with it.

Being expensive does not make vehicles invulnerable to everything ever thrown at it.

[[md]MadMak[rus]]

Modern RPGs can penetrate 1m of armor. It doesn't matter how strong your armor is or how expensive it is. It is all about how many explosives you need to take it down.

[Gracler]

Even a 2 mio$ vehicle will be blinded if the weak areas like optics are hit, all-though it's unlikely that the crew would die or the tank would blow up there is currently no way to blind the crew after a certain well placed rpg so the alternative is to make it simply blow up. Making the tanks on insurgency maps stronger will simply be another nail in the coffin for the already out-gunned insurgents.

After-all tanks where not built to enter city's so the fact that you easily get blown up if you enter one is fair I think. You could just park outside and cover what ever you can see from there.

MadMak[rus];1870296']Modern RPGs can penetrate 1m of armor. It doesn't matter how strong your armor is or how expensive it is. It is all about how many explosives you need to take it down.

You got any evidence of that? Armor is not just steel on modern tanks you know.... it's many many layers of composite materials that only the ones who built them really know what is made of. Many years ago our car's where strong and the passengers died inside...today they can take an incredible impact and the people would live.... not because the cars are stronger...but because they collapse in a certain way.... Some believe that is similar on modern armor....and only multiple hit's on the exact same spot would penetrate it, and even with a rifle it's hard to hit the same spot twice...now try with an unguided RPG...

[SShadowFox]

It's realistic, the PG-7 rocket warhead have a immense penetration capacity, being able to "spit" a hot liquid (some kind of melted metal), that penetrates the armor and being able to kill the crew, this is why the Americans than made the Reactive Armor.

Then the Soviet made the Tandem warhead, to penetrate tanks with Reactive Armor.

I gonna try to find a video that shows how the PG-7 rocket works against normal armor and Reactive Armor.

The best way to survive is to keep out of closed areas, since you won't have time to turn your turret to get the RPG guy, he'll kill you first.

[[md]MadMak[rus]]

You got any evidence of that?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RPG-29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9M133_Kornet

gunner Keith Nuernberg (or something like this) got killed.

[izoiva]

this is why the Americans than made the Reactive Armor.

The idea of counterexplosion (kontrvzryv in Russian) in armor was first proposed by the Scientific Research Institute of Steel (NII Stali) in 1949 in the USSR by academician Bogdan Vjacheslavovich Voitsekhovsky (1922?99). The first pre-production models were produced during the 1960s. However, insufficient theoretical analysis during one of the tests resulted in all of the prototype elements being blown up. For a number of reasons, including the accident, as well as a belief that Soviet tanks had sufficient armor, the research was ended. No more research was conducted until 1974 when the Ministry of the Defensive Industry announced a contest to find the best tank protection project.

Similar work was carried out by a West German researcher, Manfred Held in 1967?69. For the first time, reactive armor, created on the basis of the German experience, was installed on Israeli tanks during the Arab-Israeli Conflict in 1982 (the Lebanon War) and was judged effective.

[SShadowFox]

You must learn to interpret what is written, I told "that's why the Americans made Reactive Armor" (for the Abrams).

[CanuckCommander]

Using armor on INS is rather simple if you adhere to a few principles and tricks:

-Abuse the range of your weapons and optics. Stay as far back as possible from your target area.
-Don't drive into the city. Do this instead. Guard important streets near the cache and prevent reinforcements from crossing.
-Hull down or hide behind cover when possible. RPGs are not as accurate as HATs, so when using obstructions in tandem with long range, your APC will never get hit by a RPG
-Driver should occasionally hop out to listen for vehicles, garies, spg techies and cars all have distinct sounds.
-Driver should request new crewman kits and throw smoke on the APC to save smoke dispensers for emergencies.
-Driver should do most of the target acquisition since his optic turns faster than the turret. Call out the degree and range of contact so gunner can engage.
-Most importantly, as a universal rule, always put yourself in your enemies shoes. If you were your enemy, where would you place the SPG, mines or RPG teams. That way, you can beat them easily.

[Tarranauha200]

And most importantly, dont stay too long at one place. If you stay, they will have time to pinpoint your location for SPGs, bombcars and RPGs.

Edit: Btw wikipedia says that syria video is fake. RPG-29 was not the thing that killed it.