C4 vs caches

General discussion of the Project Reality: BF2 modification.
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AquaticPenguin
Posts: 846
Joined: 2008-08-27 19:29

Re: C4 vs caches

Post by AquaticPenguin »

MaxBoZ wrote:Funfact: 9/10 caches described as being in the open and being covered by an LAV, can actually be destroyed by the LAV or a HAT kit from the same position.
I don't really think that's true. There's lots of instances where the cache is hugging a wall and couldn't be hit with a LAV or HAT, or the cache is behind a second wall or below ground. Equally it requires the LAV/HAT to know exactly where the cache is, rather than just the general area, and have at least a reasonable LOS to it. My experience of HATs, too, is that they either require a lot of shots, or a direct hit to destroy the cache.

MaxBoZ wrote:This simply means the insurgents aren't using their given advantages of mobility and portable firepower.
One problem is that insurgents portable fire power is mitigated by the fact that the objectives are stationary.
Yes exactly that - If an APC/IFV can sit there unopposed the more time that passes the more assured blufor success becomes. If you believe an APC is untouchable I'd like to introduce you to my friends the RPG and SPG, not to mention mines IEDs and bomb cars.
At the range the APC will be sitting, the RPG is a bit of a long shot. If you get close, sure you might be able to get it to return to base, but while you try to slowly crawl through the long grass, or skirt round open ground to get a better shot, they can easily drive their humvee to the cache and blow it to bits. Firing RPGs from in the cache area as the humvee attack is semi-effective, but it's easy to lose LOS on humvees and a single hit isn't necessarily enough.

Fair enough about SPGs, though I've never found static SPGs to be particularly effective - If you miss the APC with the first shot, you're screwed, and on some maps it's very hard to find concealed places that blufor aren't going to run into.

Mines are only effective area denial, and you generally only have enough time and mines to protect the more obvious routes. If there's open ground around the cache they're ineffective. IEDs have similar problems, you can sometimes protect against C4 by placing IEDs around the walls, but in my experience it's often hard to see the infantry as they approach, and once you hear the beep of the C4 it's too late.

Ok bomb cars, they're a very good way of getting rid of APCs.

My problem with C4 is that it's a tactic that requires little teamwork to execute, but a lot to mitigate. You can have a great squad who are really good at defending, but if they haven't got LOS at the critical time and can't bring their guns to bear the cache can be lost to a lone wolf with a humvee.
KiloJules
Posts: 792
Joined: 2011-03-17 18:03

Re: C4 vs caches

Post by KiloJules »

AquaticPenguin wrote:
Ok bomb cars, they're a very good way of getting rid of APCs.
If they haven't been wasted on FOBs or even infantry groups.
MaxBooZe
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Joined: 2008-03-16 09:46

Re: C4 vs caches

Post by MaxBooZe »

AquaticPenguin wrote:One problem is that insurgents portable fire power is mitigated by the fact that the objectives are stationary.
This is actually an advantage for the Insurgents. The Technicals and bombcars aswell as RPG(teams) and IED-Sappers have the freedom of movement of the entire map with fast and low profile vehicles. The fact that the objective is stationary only makes it very easy to predict routes of attack, APCs are usually limited to areas that they can actually maneouver in. The static position makes it so easy for insurgents to set up a static defense in dense situations around the cache and leave a large part of the map open for quick and decisive hit and run groups.

It's not the APCs overpoweredness if the RPG keeps shooting from the same building whilst he could shoot and relocate. Using mortars to suppress and fix enemy assault phases. Often the BLUFOR take their sweet time in assaulting a cache and get sit up on hills and everything. This never works to their advantage if you know how to counter it. In the end, you don't have the ticket limitation they do, the longer they stay up there getting shot every 1 minute. If every insurgent has a K/D of 1 to 5 and the BLUFOR are still on a hill or stack up positioned FOB it's still in the Insurgents favor.
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Fractal
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Joined: 2008-12-28 08:28

Re: C4 vs caches

Post by Fractal »

I find it very unrealistic to pop C4 out of bag and destroy cache in the cave by placing it on top of a hill.
I believe this should be banned on all servers.

But if you place it in the cave or underground places and it takes cache down it's OK as detonation inside is very lethal and damaging in reality.
smgunsftw
Posts: 242
Joined: 2012-10-26 21:43

Re: C4 vs caches

Post by smgunsftw »

From what I hear, the use of C4 against will be revamped in 1.0, first of all, only the Rifleman Specialist will be equipped with a C4 stick, which is C4 will a smaller blast radius and a timer, but the same damage. Also the C4 pack will be removed from the Combat Engineer class in Insurgency maps, among with Incendiary grenades from most classes.
Unhealed
Posts: 365
Joined: 2012-09-15 16:33

Re: C4 vs caches

Post by Unhealed »

smgunsftw wrote:only the Rifleman Specialist will be equipped with a C4 stick, which is C4 will a smaller blast radius and a timer, but the same damage. Also the C4 pack will be removed from the Combat Engineer class in Insurgency maps, among with Incendiary grenades from most classes.
I really like that change. Specialists should be more usefull than they are now. Maybe they even should add supressor on weapon for them becouse they are really special now. :D
Any info/rumours about what devs did with anti-personal kit? it's kinda useless right now.
waldov
Posts: 753
Joined: 2012-06-26 04:01

Re: C4 vs caches

Post by waldov »

What about bridge and asset demolition? the C4 has a important role in PR i like the idea of C4 blocks for the Specialist but the Engineer need those big C4s. Also the destruction of Caches using C4 is not at all realistic and is actually one of the most common methods IRL to destroy hardened enemy positions. No doubt the Engineer is a neglected kit but deployable minefields and keeping the C4s will keep him useful.
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pr|Zer0
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Re: C4 vs caches

Post by pr|Zer0 »

Truism wrote:INS is a total joke of a mode anyway; close to impossible to enjoy. But I've been writing that for years now.
Oh, obviously, you have never played OPFOR. INS is a LOT of fun.
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smgunsftw
Posts: 242
Joined: 2012-10-26 21:43

Re: C4 vs caches

Post by smgunsftw »

waldov wrote:What about bridge and asset demolition? the C4 has a important role in PR i like the idea of C4 blocks for the Specialist but the Engineer need those big C4s. Also the destruction of Caches using C4 is not at all realistic and is actually one of the most common methods IRL to destroy hardened enemy positions. No doubt the Engineer is a neglected kit but deployable minefields and keeping the C4s will keep him useful.
I disagree with you on the topics of Bridge and asset demolition capabilities for the Engineer class in Insurgency. Take a look at IRL, foreign military forces rarely (almost never) blow up bridges and other transportation pathways in a town. As for retaining the mine capabilities and defuse capabilities of the engineer, I believe the devs have already implemented a BLUFOR INS-Oriented engineer kit, which probably won't have C4.
IWI-GALIL.556FA
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Re: C4 vs caches

Post by IWI-GALIL.556FA »

It all comes down to your SL and what he is willing / wants to try against the enemy
K4on
Retired PR Developer
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Re: C4 vs caches

Post by K4on »

smgunsftw wrote:From what I hear, the use of C4 against will be revamped in 1.0, first of all, only the Rifleman Specialist will be equipped with a C4 stick, which is C4 will a smaller blast radius and a timer, but the same damage. Also the C4 pack will be removed from the Combat Engineer class in Insurgency maps, among with Incendiary grenades from most classes.
50% of what you heared is true. Dunno who invented the other stuff :)

Combat Engineer will keep the big C4 even on Ins mode. Specialist gets small C4. Both types of C4s do different damage, however both will be enough to blow a Cache if placed directly on it.


We are also aware of the "C4 through Wall kills cache" tactic.
Lets just say for now, it wont be that easy in 1.0.
Souls Of Mischief
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Re: C4 vs caches

Post by Souls Of Mischief »

'[R-DEV wrote:K4on;1898214']50% of what you heared is true. Dunno who invented the other stuff :)

Combat Engineer will keep the big C4 even on Ins mode. Specialist gets small C4. Both types of C4s do different damage, however both will be enough to blow a Cache if placed directly on it.


We are also aware of the "C4 through Wall kills cache" tactic.
Lets just say for now, it wont be that easy in 1.0.
THANK YOU BASED GOD!

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IWI-GALIL.556FA
Posts: 511
Joined: 2013-03-25 20:51

Re: C4 vs caches

Post by IWI-GALIL.556FA »

That will be sweet!!! :lol:
Quobble
Posts: 123
Joined: 2012-05-13 09:19

Re: C4 vs caches

Post by Quobble »

saXoni wrote:Enough C4 would blow the fuck out of weapon-caches in real-life, so I don't mind it. The defenders just need to be a bit more organised and set up a perimeter to defend so the CE won't get through.

What do you mean with "a real-life weapon cache"?
In "real-life" you wont be able to "destroy" a weapon storage by just blowing a bit off around them.

You need to make sure the arms are UNUSABLE so the insurgences cant salvage the rest of the leftovers.

Imo they should make the cache being able to take 2 c4 detonations.
They worked it out with hydra missiles, so it should be able to set the cache damage from c4.
"Artyom! If it's hostile - you kill it."
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