Convoys

[L0rdMasta]

dude that convoy did great! we built 4 fobs before we got destroyed, and when we actually DID get destroyed it was because we tried to go past the south mountain, I told you we were probably going to die when that happened, but everything up to that point worked great! =P

it was great, that's going to become a standard to you, two Humvees/Jeeps and one Logi truck in the middle.

[Blackburn92xBHD]

in my opinion this is a great idea.. driving in convoys is reducing losses in military for many years now... its a great protection against technicals they would easily just kill every logi they came across.. and against bombcars also... still big threads are RPG's but many screens see more then one screen! and the only thread thats bigger are IED's but in real life its also like that but this doesnt prevent NATO armys to drive in convoy's in afghanistan or iraq

[waldov]

Convoys work very bad in Bf2 because everyone die instantly in the event of a vehicle taking to much damage. And 'im not only talking about arty ied's... they should cause instant death... but if your vehicle is already damaged and a machine gun shoot at you...everyone dies with no chance of revival.

Every vehicle is like a bomb car... you never know when its gonna blow up and cause 200 tickets loss in a split second.

small "convoys" work well (gun truck and logistics for example)


Big convoys makes insurgents eyes light up light Christmas trees because it makes there job much easier... 1 guy in a sneaky bomb car can fok up a well organised convoy where 1 angle is left unattended for a few seconds.

If vehicles didn't instant kill there passengers i could see much more potential for them....... A disabled vehicle should have 10 times more "health" than a "fresh" one... so if they really want to blow it up it would take a lot of damage.
Disabled vehicles should be burning and after some time maybe 5 min (the same you have when wounded) they would turn to wrecks if not repaired.

Yeah that addition could seriously make convoys more doable. Really people need to look at it like this:
1. There is an aspect of modern warfare currently unstimulated in this game.
2. This aspect could have potential to improve the gameplay and realism of the game.
3. How could this aspect be simulated in the game taking into consideration:
-Engine limitations
-Game play
-Realism
in that order.
So I think the idea of convoys has overcome 1 and 2 what its stuck at is number 3.

Someways that convoys could be partly simulated in game is giving bonuses to those who are in them (as in real life). In real life in a hostile zone groups of vehicles will almost always form up into groups because of the overwhelming advantages it offers, so for the concept of convoys to work in PR they essentially need advantages as well. Most people would argue convoys in PR are actually a disadvantage and this is the root of the problem. The current disadvantages of using convoys in PR needs to be overcome without completely fundamentally changing the game or negatively affecting other aspects of the game.

So far id say these ideas fit to some degree within these boundarys:
-Point bonuses for working in convoys/formations (obviously not the biggest motivator but still worth it for the competitive advantages).
-The ability for Vehicles to be disabled instead of totally destroyed and more time for people to escape from burning vehicles (cant guarantee how that fits in with the engine limitations).
-Reduced damage/destruction radius of Bomb trucks and Artillery IEDs against vehicles (they shouldn't be able to destroy 3-5 Vehicles at once and instead require better timing/accuracy on behalf of the operator).
-Realistic deviation for RPG ie. quicker to deploy and more accurate (lone vehicles can get picked off easier instead of speeding past before the RPGs have a chance to be fully accurate.)

The current problems that make convoys under valued in PR:
-Overpowered Arty IEDs and Bomb trucks.
-Instant death in Vehicles


These modifications could definitely make convoys more viable without drastically changing the game itself and improve 2 things that PR has always aimed for.. realism and gameplay.

[heldro]

I bombcar'ed a 3 HMMWV convoy yesterday, good times.

[Pronck]

Convoys are very effective on the more open maps such as Karbala, Basrah and Archer. However it does need a different mindset. First of all you need guys to clear up the roads of IEDs, no rush and gamble like we do now. People are just too lazy to get out of the vehicle and investigate for IEDs they often rush, get killed and blame that the IED is OP.

When this issue is solved it is a piece of cake, just have everyone watching their sectors and you are well defended. On maps such as Karbala and Kokan air cover from Kiowas can get more effective due to cover from the ground.

I think in PR 1.0 with the better up-armored humvees and the Mk. 19s you will be very effective with a convoy. You only need just three guys on front to clear up the road and you are basically ready to go.

IEDs and Bombtrucks are not OP, it is just the mindset of the BLUFOR soldier which makes it OP.

[waldov]

Convoys are very effective on the more open maps such as Karbala, Basrah and Archer. However it does need a different mindset. First of all you need guys to clear up the roads of IEDs, no rush and gamble like we do now. People are just too lazy to get out of the vehicle and investigate for IEDs they often rush, get killed and blame that the IED is OP.

When this issue is solved it is a piece of cake, just have everyone watching their sectors and you are well defended. On maps such as Karbala and Kokan air cover from Kiowas can get more effective due to cover from the ground.

I think in PR 1.0 with the better up-armored humvees and the Mk. 19s you will be very effective with a convoy. You only need just three guys on front to clear up the road and you are basically ready to go.

IEDs and Bombtrucks are not OP, it is just the mindset of the BLUFOR soldier which makes it OP.

I see where you are coming from and your mostly correct except for the Garys and Arty IEDs. I think there power is realistic but there radius against vehicles is too large IRL explosives are not so devastating to even lightly armored vehicles as they are in PR.

[Moszeusz6Pl]

I think that PR maps can be too small for convoys, because if you want to make convoy, with anti IED team on front, enemy have enough time to prepare serious ambush with all his forces on your way. IRL, there usually is no time to move to position and prepare ambush, when insurgence have reports, that convoy is coming, they are just going onto hills, and getting ready to trigger IEDs, that they have planted before.

Second aspect is that you need nearly whole team to do convoy, so combining it with low speed to be secured from IED, enemy can send all enemies to attack it, and have enough time to plan it. If battles were bigger, they would have to always leave some troops to defend other parts of the maps, and BLUFOR could send much bigger convoys, which could deal with ambushes.

The reason ISAF is not losing that many forces IRL is that they usually have advantage in number, when they are ambushed, which combined with superior firepower let them win firefight. In case of bigger ambush, they call reinforcement, and are able to kill many enemies with single JDAM.

[sprint113]

Well, the biggest issue factoring an attack against convoys is the risk vs reward factor. In game, there is pretty much no risk in engaging the enemy. Worst case, you die, wait 30 seconds, walk back and try again. You might take out a vehicle, which is a bonus and will probably show up as points on your scorecard and an even KDR.

IRL on the other hand, you risk dying, and with a convoy, the risk of dying increases. This affords convoys security in numbers because dying, for most people, is an unacceptable outcome for a situation, regardless of how many kills you get.

Unfortunately, it is extremely difficult simulate a realistic attachment to life in games without prohibitively interfering with gameplay. It would be interesting if PR had the playerbase to support a server that banned you for 24 hrs after dying in game to see how that affects player behavior.

[waldov]

I think that PR maps can be too small for convoys, because if you want to make convoy, with anti IED team on front, enemy have enough time to prepare serious ambush with all his forces on your way. IRL, there usually is no time to move to position and prepare ambush, when insurgence have reports, that convoy is coming, they are just going onto hills, and getting ready to trigger IEDs, that they have planted before.

Second aspect is that you need nearly whole team to do convoy, so combining it with low speed to be secured from IED, enemy can send all enemies to attack it, and have enough time to plan it. If battles were bigger, they would have to always leave some troops to defend other parts of the maps, and BLUFOR could send much bigger convoys, which could deal with ambushes.

The reason ISAF is not losing that many forces IRL is that they usually have advantage in number, when they are ambushed, which combined with superior firepower let them win firefight. In case of bigger ambush, they call reinforcement, and are able to kill many enemies with single JDAM.

I see what youre saying but i was just thinking of convoys proportional to the size of the map not like 20 vehicle convoys more like 4 or 5 vehicles in a convoy. I just think certain additions could make this feasible such as no instant death when you vehicle is destroyed, reduced radius of Garys against vehicles and points for teamwork between vehicles.

[emmanuel15]

I have to feel sad for anyone who hasn't been in a good convoy in PR before its an awesome experience especially when it works. One thing that PR did well was increase the teamwork and communication within squads so that game play revolves a lot around working as a squad, for example sticking together as a squad increases your points massively and being in a squad gives you access to multiple weapons. To take it to the next level similar concepts could be applied to Vehicles to create a more team orientated use of them. ie. no solo Logi rushes, solo squads roaming in Humvees, APCs speeding off and doing raking up kills instead of helping the team. I think just as working together in squads has advantages so should working together in Convoys and formations.

i have been in a convoy once lead by Wicca for what i remamber (and a member of R-CON , Phoenix)at Kokan and it was super awsome!!! we dominaited the guys at the cashe's with six 50Cal's (1st and 2nd platoon squads, i was on 2nd and the 4 vehicle gunner) all aiming for the same area and we didn't need any other support and we got at least 2 cashe's, i was still new to PR at that time and it was super awsome!! but you know what the problem was?? after a few cashe's we lost a little from the command if i remamber and few of us got including me got taken out by mine's. my point here is that convoys are great the problem is that you can be easily wiped out if you don't watch your driving or the other team has a good coordination and you just loose your assets withn seconds. in INS convoys ae wiped out instantly the moment you get to close to a cashe or ente the city...


one mine and your convoy could be in total chaos.

[emmanuel15]

I have to feel sad for anyone who hasn't been in a good convoy in PR before its an awesome experience especially when it works. One thing that PR did well was increase the teamwork and communication within squads so that game play revolves a lot around working as a squad, for example sticking together as a squad increases your points massively and being in a squad gives you access to multiple weapons. To take it to the next level similar concepts could be applied to Vehicles to create a more team orientated use of them. ie. no solo Logi rushes, solo squads roaming in Humvees, APCs speeding off and doing raking up kills instead of helping the team. I think just as working together in squads has advantages so should working together in Convoys and formations.

*EDIT*=ignore this post and read my latest one on this thread.i wrote false info here about the gameplay.

i have been in a convoy once lead by Wicca for what i remamber (and a member of R-CON , Phoenix)at Kokan and it was super awsome!!! we dominaited the guys at the cashe's with six 50Cal's (1st and 2nd platoon squads, i was on 2nd and the 4 vehicle gunner) all aiming for the same area and we didn't need any other support and we got at least 2 cashe's, i was still new to PR at that time and it was super awsome!! but you know what the problem was?? after a few cashe's we lost a little from the command if i remamber and few of us got including me got taken out by mine's. my point here is that convoys are great the problem is that you can be easily wiped out if you don't watch your driving or the other team has a good coordination and you just loose your assets withn seconds. in INS convoys ae wiped out instantly the moment you get to close to a cashe or ente the city...


one mine and your convoy could be in total chaos.

[Ron-Schultz]

it was 128...oh yeah right

[Darman1138]

Honestly I think convoys wouldn't get so decimated if they would just spread out some more. A lot of videos I see with PR convoys, everyone is practically riding on the guy in front of them. If the column comes to a stop, everyone slams into each other because they're too close. If you keep a good distance between everyone, you won't lose the whole convoy to one IED. And if one vehicle gets hit and needs cover, everyone's in a fast moving vehicle. They'll catch up in 5 seconds. They don't need to be there in .25 seconds.

[emmanuel15]

I have to feel sad for anyone who hasn't been in a good convoy in PR before its an awesome experience especially when it works.

it was 128...oh yeah right

this is the exect footage i was talking about i was there with RON on the same squad (IDF101 sgtEMMANUEL15) and i was one of the gunners and it was so much fun. i mistook Ron Schultz as a member of R-CON/Y cause of his name. and it wasn't 2 platoons(that was on a diffrent time) and it was a 12 man squad so i mistook it for to squads.you can see in the footage i was talking a few times on wrong chat(was still new) and at 5:50 i was the first of the 3 who got destroyed and at 7:20 i crashed from the server and last at 12:30 that's when we got dominated and we lost command . anyway it was what made me love PR even more,great there is footage out there and it will be nice to play with you again Ron an waldoy you may some time play with us.

[waldov]

Yeah i always look forward to a good convoy id just like to see convoys be a integral part of PR not just a "remember that crazy time" aspect of PR. I think there is some slight additions that could make his possible , mainly not making vehicles not instantly kill everyone in them, From the numerous first hand accounts ive seen and watched from Iraq and Afghanistan vehicles almost always get disabled and a few guys inside are injured or killed not totally destroyed and everyone inside instantly dies (as in PR ATM) if this was fixed (as well as adding teamwork points for being in a convoy) i think convoys would be more common. it would be nice to see teamwork applied to vehicles as well as infantry.

[Ron-Schultz]

yeah once i lead a convoy with 6 hmwvs (driven by my squad (12men)) and 2 infantry squads getting transported by it in kokan (24 men). we were a platoon and i think that was one of my best PR moments (it was a public game) sadly there is no footage about it

[Vicious302]

I remember hitting one of those with a Gary once and getting 18 kills, it was super awesome.

[waldov]

I remember hitting one of those with a Gary once and getting 18 kills, it was super awesome.

That is the problem, that shouldn't be possible. IRL a devastating suicide attack against a convoy would destroy/disable 3-4 vehicles and kill 6-8 guys and wound 12-20 at the most. It could be more like that with out unbalancing the game.

[Cassius]

Its fun but more a liability than anything. IRL you wouldnt send out lonely trucks far in between because if one gets ambushed its an acceptable loss, but you can use that kind of think in a game.

[IWI-GALIL.556FA]

We can get some massive convoy's going with these 100 player servers!!!