Feedback on deviation

[SIDEKILL3R]

How about making it so that even slight suppression lowers your accuracy so that you're not guaranteed hits at med-long range? This wouldn't require overhauling all of the deviation code, just adding a "if suppressed, -2 accuracy", kind of thing, right? Getting the jump on the enemy AND suppressing fire would become even more important, and people would get the slower, more intense firefights they crave.

Anyway, great suggestion, waldov.

I like this

[Psyrus]

I believe there is no way to dynamically set the deviation based on an event external to the player, or at least that's what I read ages ago. That being said, I've seen some pretty cool things done with memory hacks here (thermals?, BUIS) so it may be possible through that route??

[Cpt.Future]

[quote=""'[R-CON"]Psyrus;1985021'][ Version | Change | Community response]

0.9 to 0.97 - No major changes "The CQB deviation is too high, I shouldn't have to wait XX time to get a decent body shot @ X meters"
1.0 - Deviation overhauled again, made to be much more accurate overall "Too little deviation!"

[/quote]

So why wasn't the CQB deviation reduced then, if that's what the community wanted? I agree that it was ridiculous in older versions that you had to wait like 3 seconds to hit somebody who was standing right in front of you. But on long ranges settle times should be higher.

[quote="Prevtzer""]This is how I'd make it:

Increase weapon deviation settle time - This way people will think about engaging an enemy instead of just opening fire.

Decrease recoil - When I walk 20m behind an enemy and pour half a mag into his back he has 50% chance of survival because the recoil makes the gun dance all over the place.

Decrease movement speed - Slower gameplay, people will think more instead of just running around.

Increase AR deviation - I believe AR's were very OP in the previous versions because the 'deployed' deviation was way too low and they were basically snipers. I've never suppressed an enemy because why bother, as soon as they pop out I can just kill them.

Decrease marksman deviation - Deployed mode isn't nearly as good as it should be.[/quote]

+1 to all

Marksman kits are also pretty hard to shoot. What I can hit with a carbine from 300 meters I can't hit with an SVD or any marksman, even after letting it settle for 10 seconds while aiming on a guy that standing in the middle of a flat desert.

I think you are using the sights wrong. DMRs are really accurate, settle times are high in deployed mode but very low in undeployed.

I completely agree here. I hope the marksman rifles get improved. And yeah, the recoil for the AK-47/74 is overdone. Makes you feel so vulnerable even in close quarters. Think the 74U is very usable though.

AK47 having high recoil at least somewhat simulates that the Taliban suck at shooting.
Unfortunately they can't really do planned ambushes in PR because the gameplay is way too fast. So it's just about running around, getting shot and respawning if you play as taliban or insurgent.
Taliban IRL might have a higher casualty rate than ISAF units, but they're not suicidal.

[Brainlaag]

Didn't play back

And here it stops.

Honestly, people bitching about current deviation have obviously not witnessed the horrors of older builds. Anyone who started playing post 0.9 has no right to voice his opinion on deviation and be taken seriously

I agree that the game pace is really putting off now but it has little to do with the deviation itself but it's rather a product of multiple bad ideas and concept choices clashing into each other making the gameplay less enjoyable (yes I'm looking at you running speed change of 0.95).

The current gun handling is as sweet as I can imagine it to be on the Refractor engine, with the exception of some minor tweaks for scoped and deployed weapons here and there.

Personally i have welcomed the new 1.0 deviation, but i see what you mean about the shorter firefights. The problem is that IRL when people are trying to kill you, you don't simply take aim and drop them like you can as of 1.0. Ideally I think your accuracy should be reduced to almost .98 levels if bullets land within up to 10 meters of you to simulate the fact that accuracy rapidly deteriorates under large amounts of stress, pressure, tension etc. In this way the first initiation of battle would be very deadly (like lots of ambushes IRL where more then 50% of casualties are in the first minute) and then proceed to break down into drawn out engagements that require each team to act decisively to break the dead lock. Not sure if that would be possible though.

Suggested aeons ago, impossible to do on the engine.

[Prevtzer]

And here it stops.

Honestly, people bitching about current deviation have obviously not witnessed the horrors of older builds. Anyone who started playing post 0.9 has no right to voice his opinion on deviation and be taken seriously

I agree that the game pace is really putting off now but it has little to do with the deviation itself but it's rather a product of multiple bad ideas and concept choices clashing into each other making the gameplay less enjoyable (yes I'm looking at you running speed change of 0.95).

The current gun handling is as sweet as I can imagine it to be on the Refractor engine, with the exception of some minor tweaks for scoped and deployed weapons here and there

Well I'm sorry, I didn't know representatives from Pre 0.9 Master Race were in this thread. Next time I'll try to contribute I'll make sure to consult Master Race first (semi srs).

Please explain what was so wrong with pre 0.9 deviation.

[Mj Pain]

There was nothing wrong with it.. just people dont seem to understand that it actually takes some time to come from a full sprint to landing a fairly accurate shot on a 50m target (btw, you could ingame but people like to exaggerate).

But yeah.. Gameplay vs realism, im reallife operator so i know this stuff vs military advisors?

[Brainlaag]

Well I'm sorry, I didn't know representatives from Pre 0.9 Master Race were in this thread. Next time I'll try to contribute I'll make sure to consult Master Race first (semi srs).

Please explain what was so wrong with pre 0.9 deviation.

0.85's deviation was like 0.9, with the difference that the settle time would reset on every minor movement. Imagine you were standing still for 8 seconds, your aim was fully aligned and settled and then you tapped either one of your direction keys, bam, your aim would get reseted and your shots started flying all over the screen (exaggeration), as if you were running the past 20 miles and opened fire instantly (serious). While I personally had never issues with it and the long range engagements were actually pleasant, any encounter below 100m was just a joke to watch, or participated in.

Current system, at least in terms of CQC, is miles superior. As for long range engagements that is arguable and probably can be further elaborated.

[Murphy]

I kind of miss the days when I could get into contact and live long enough to plant one good burst. The whole dynamic of firefights has changed since 1.0 did away with deviation. I guess I'm the only one who used to enjoy having an edge by knowing how long to pause before being accurate...kinda like an intuitive feeling of time vs distance to gain the situational advantage. Sure CQB was awkward and all about who had more rounds to throw at the guy 2 ft in front of you, then it was all luck, nothing but pure luck of who got hit first. It gave AK users a clear advantage in up close fights due to its hard hitting round and solid ROF, I miss the fear of going toe to toe with superior weapons when using Blufor guns. The new deviation combined with the current penetration bug means M4 and L85s are unstoppable at any range, and any unconventional factions have been constantly catching nerfs to their gear (Enfields and Mosins everywhere, while blufor has zero deviation weapons almost across the board).

[ComradeHX]

AK47 having high recoil at least somewhat simulates that the Taliban suck at shooting.
Unfortunately they can't really do planned ambushes in PR because the gameplay is way too fast. So it's just about running around, getting shot and respawning if you play as taliban or insurgent.

7.62 AK with no muzzle brake does have high recoil.

But it's a lot more controllable with AKM and any AK-74 because of advanced muzzle brake design.

[Tarranauha200]

Current deviation is superior to pre 1.0 deviation in every way. In 0.85 for example you could not hit a person in the other side of the room because of the deviation. CQB was horrible.

[brunoff]

Deviation pos 1.0 is far better. It's not the deviation alone that's lowering the firefights time. Other factors contribute more to that like:
more spawn points availiable,
1 shot kill against unconventional factions,
players overall playing more carelessly lately as they tend to just spawn and run in a straight line towards the objective without taking proper cover on the way in.

One thing that could possibly help lower the pace of battle, decrease that run and gun behavior and also increase realism is if we had an additional factor for the deviation calculation based on the amount of stamina you have. So if you have been sprinting too much you get your overall deviation increased by a factor that is bigger, the lower your stamina is. But stamina should only start afecting deviation when it's lower than maybe 70% or so.

[fatalsushi83]

AK47 having high recoil at least somewhat simulates that the Taliban suck at shooting.

The Taliban/insurgents suck at shooting argument doesn't make sense. If the game is supposed to simulate them being unable to handle their weapons with competence, why do you have pinpoint accuracy, especially with the bolt-action rifles? Either the devs don't intend these faction to be bad shots in-game (which is how it should be for balance purposes because they're already at a disadvantage with iron sights) or there are inconsistencies which need to be fixed.

Also, I agree that the running speed is way too fast. Definitely feels like it's encouraging arcade-style run-and-gun gameplay and making people less dependent on transportation.

[Roque_THE_GAMER]

Deviation is a ridiculous ting in whatever game, if you cant put something to say your weapon is ready and put just a radon ting to spread bluets all over the god dam place, Arma can give you this visual clue shaking your aim when you hurt o tired why cant PR just make a visual clue just to know the deviation of your weapon, some were some one make a deviation bar in the ammo counter why its not been added? "Hard Code"?

[=MeRk= Morbo5131]

I have to stress this again: there should be an effect on deviation when changing stance from standing to crouched and back - Frogging is STILL a common occurrence, and in my opinion at least on par with bunnyhopping if not worse. It looks ridiculous and is practically an exploit, allowing you to get a shot off at an enemy before their bullet can even hit you.

For those of you who don't know what I mean,it's when you're behind cover that conceals you when crouched - You stay crouched, sight in, pop up for a split second, line up your target, pop back out for another split second and fire. It's practically impossible to counter.

Alternatively, if possible, reduce the speed of the stance change?

[Wheres_my_chili]

Hardcoded, brah. The devs kind of fixed it with the HATs when you go from prone to crouch, but theres nothing that can be done about crouch to standing. Besides, its not THAT unrealistic to take pop out shots at an enemy that has you pinned.

[=MeRk= Morbo5131]

Hardcoded, brah. The devs kind of fixed it with the HATs when you go from prone to crouch, but theres nothing that can be done about crouch to standing. Besides, its not THAT unrealistic to take pop out shots at an enemy that has you pinned.

That's a shame. But with the level of accuracy it's doable with, it really isn't realistic.

[obpmgmua]

@[R-CON]Psyrus
You forgot the best PR release.

.0.5 - Deviation non existent, following shot went where the recoil settled the gun.

[Psyrus]

@[R-CON]Psyrus
You forgot the best PR release.

.0.5 - Deviation non existent, following shot went where the recoil settled the gun.

You notice I listed from where deviation was introduced.

Considering how little recoil the guns have [concerning like the TAVOR and such] it would be like playing star wars again with laser guns

[viirusiiseli]

As far as realism goes and gameplay enjoyment, the maximum deviation you can achieve with normal rifles is too accurate. You can simply not hit that small area that reliably IRL with infantry rifles. Otherwise the deviation is just fine.

Source: Finnish Defence Force gonascript