Feedback on deviation

[obpmgmua]

Psyrus;1986071']You notice I listed from where deviation was introduced.

Considering how little recoil the guns have [concerning like the TAVOR and such] it would be like playing star wars again with laser guns

That really wasn't a bad thing. I quite liked how the guns behaved in .5, a refreshing 180 degree turn from Vanilla BF2. It may have not been realistic, but it was perfectly balanced between hardcore and casual.

I know I put 0.5 up on a pedestal alot. But that's because it's true it really was the best FPS game/mod I ever played. I'm sad to see it's gone. I tell ya, if the R-dev's took what they had with .5, and published it as a standalone game, it would be remembered as one of the greatest FPS games of all time. There was nothing like it at them time, and with the way videogames are going now, there probably will be nothing close to it for a very long time.

I have more fond memories of .5 basrah, than I do with any other video game.

[_Fizzco_]

Really?

You liked waiting more than the full settle time, not moving the cross hairs at all, aiming at 300meters, and the shot lands 5 meters off to the side of where you were aiming?

I prefer it to being a fucking super soldier with a pistol, seriously it wasn't even that bad. We still managed to kill everyone before 1.0 with shitty deviation so i don't see it being that bad

I think it would be better if it was halfway between 1.0 and pre 1.0. Not ridiculous but not OP.

[Nate.]

I think it would be better if it was halfway between 1.0 and pre 1.0. Not ridiculous but not OP.

Amen

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[Wadziu]

I have to stress this again: there should be an effect on deviation when changing stance from standing to crouched and back - Frogging is STILL a common occurrence, and in my opinion at least on par with bunnyhopping if not worse. It looks ridiculous and is practically an exploit, allowing you to get a shot off at an enemy before their bullet can even hit you.

For those of you who don't know what I mean,it's when you're behind cover that conceals you when crouched - You stay crouched, sight in, pop up for a split second, line up your target, pop back out for another split second and fire. It's practically impossible to counter.

Alternatively, if possible, reduce the speed of the stance change?

I think it was discussed hundred times and would be changed long time ago if it was possible. It's most noticable with AR's, because tbh it's the only legimate tactics with current "deployed" settle time. If it wasn't for frogging as you call it, you would be headshoted 10 times from random rifle before you could even hit side of a barn with LMG. Sad but true.

[Murphy]

Really?

You liked waiting more than the full settle time, not moving the cross hairs at all, aiming at 300meters, and the shot lands 5 meters off to the side of where you were aiming?

Unlike most of the people belly-aching about old deviation I learned to use it to my advantage and force situations that gave my opponent little chance to settle his weapon. I know plenty of people who won firefights a lot easier with the old "time vs distance" deviation system because while some were complaining about "missing a guy 5 meters in front of me by a country mile" others were adapting and learning how to use it to disadvantage opponents.

It made the game more methodical, and mistakes much more apparent as you were a lot less likely to manage a 360 no-scope kill on an insurgent who has the drop on you. Shot placement and patience were king, now it's more akin to "more rounds better odds" because you can go from full sprint to prone-diving headshot at 200 meters in a few seconds.

It feels like going from the original Ghost Recon to GR:Advanced War Fighter. Sacrifice the paced, tactical core of the game for shinier toys with bigger explosions to cater to players with shorter attention spans.

Most players will quickly disagree with my opinion, and I can see that's why the deviation was all but removed from 1.0. The need to garner more players in a market saturated with "tacticool shooters" which are nothing more then interactive Michael Bay movies has probably driven the decision to speed things up not only where gun play is concerned but also spawning and movement speed across the maps.

TLDR

Yes, I liked the old deviation as it made the core gameplay slower and more rewarding for patient players who use their head.

[Spook]

I am suprised to hear that from you, since in the past I felt like reading the opposite in your posts. But whatever, I fully agree with you. Thats exactly what i said a thousand times back then when the beta started.

[Mikemonster]

I'm with you on that as well Murphy, although I prefer the newer deviation because it makes the games I play more fun.

Previously it was easy to win a 1v1 as long as you stayed calm and shot them in the head (after a 4 sec wait). This could be extended to shooting 1 member of a squad and then (without moving) waiting for them to blunder round and knowing you could get a couple of shots at them before they too could shoot back.

Now if you are outnumbered, or they see you first, you are screwed. Previously you could use an inexperienced player's spraying of bullets to your advantage (they tended to miss and spoil further accuracy). Now some of them hit..

I've just changed to allow for the new system - I prefer it as it feels more realistic and it also levels the field a bit.

That said, the marksmen rifles are a tad too good. I shot 4 players in 4 shots within 2 seconds, one after the other, all at ~200m (leg shots).

Actually all deployed weapons are a bit too good. AR gunners can simply wait for 4 secs behind a corner to let the deviation settle, and then can take the 1 step out and have excellent accuracy up to about 200m. If you are covering that corner, and you only have a normal gun, you might as well not bother now..

[ComradeHX]

We could use a little longer(0.25-0.5s) settle time, but the new maximum deviation is just fine.

[Murphy]

Spook is referring to my more recent posts concerning the AK series I believe. This discussion is about deviation as a whole, where as my views on the AK series being horribad in 1.0 are related to effectiveness versus 5.56 NATO weapons. That's a different rant for a different thread

A compromise like ComradeHX suggested is a good start, I would venture to suggest a little longer (1-1.5 seconds maybe).

(Post slightly rephrased to remove reference to deleted posts - Spec)

[fatalsushi83]

We could use a little longer(0.25-0.5s) settle time, but the new maximum deviation is just fine.

A compromise like ComradeHX suggested is a good start, I would venture to suggest a little longer (1-1.5 seconds maybe).

Good point. The old maximum deviation, especially for the LMGs, was overdone and people were complaining about how odd it felt to "shoot bullets out the side of your gun." If the engine doesn't allow deviation to be affected by things like stamina and suppression, 1.0 maximum deviation WITH slower settle time sounds like it might be a good compromise. As many people have said here, ambush tactics and patience aren't rewarded enough with the current deviation. This, along with the high recoil for the AK weapons makes playing as insurgents so, so painful.

[ExNusquam]

(Reference to deleted post(s) removed - Spec)


As for deviation, I agree Comrade that a little bit of settle would be useful. Just enough that people can't drop you at 300 meters out of a sprint, and enough to give a static player an advantage over someone who's moving. I'd like to keep max deviation fairly tight though, so it's not as ridiculous as it was in .981.

[fatalsushi83]

As for deviation, I agree Comrade that a little bit of settle would be useful. Just enough that people can't drop you at 300 meters out of a sprint, and enough to give a static player an advantage over someone who's moving. I'd like to keep max deviation fairly tight though, so it's not as ridiculous as it was in .981.

I couldn't have said it better.

[Wheres_my_chili]

(Reference to an argument removed - Spec)

In a game thats touted as "realism redefined", when somebody you have the drop on can spin around, go prone and drop you in less than half a second, something is wrong. When I can sidestep through a doorway covered by an MG3, hipfire wildly, then take aim and headshot the gunner without even so much as a scratch, something is wrong. When I can dolphin dive and accurately place rounds on target at 200 meters from a dead sprint in less than a second, something is wrong.

There's something wrong here, but thats just my opinion.

[Nate.]

(Reference to an argument removed - Spec)

go prone and drop you in less than half a second, something is wrong

Well I think the deviation punishment with going prone is still pretty high isn't it? But still different to the old version I guess.

In former versions you always had that feeling of superiority when your enemy that just came around the corner was going prone (noob mistake). Knowing he would never hit you in time, you could take your time to aim and take a precise shot after deviation settled. I can't remember this happening with 1.0 really.

The new system is very noob friendly. This is good. But any player can drop anyone very very very easy. It was hard for new players in earlier versions - but also more rewarding and better for the gameplay in my opinion.

Maybe change deviation back towards a 0.98ish system and introduce the 'deviation brackets' for all weapons? Get the gameplay with the improved deviation and still avoid 'wtf'-moments with deviation.

[Bringerof_D]

We could use a little longer(0.25-0.5s) settle time, but the new maximum deviation is just fine.

this. Although i like it as it is now i feel it can be improved by maintaining the current max deviation, but increase the settle time required for max settle. Just a little more. I feel we are very close to getting the perfect deviation settings for this mod.

[Spec]

Cleaned up a bit and reopening. Infractions issued to two people.

[K4on]

The current deviation model in PR:BF2 is NOT going to receive any bigger remakes in general.
This doesn't mean that there won't be any small tweaks here and there, but don't expect such huge gameplay changes like you've seen in 1.0 anymore.

[fatalsushi83]

this. Although i like it as it is now i feel it can be improved by maintaining the current max deviation, but increase the settle time required for max settle. Just a little more. I feel we are very close to getting the perfect deviation settings for this mod.

I'm guessing that this would be a "small tweak," not a "big remake," and that the devs will consider this suggestion But yeah, I also think that overall the deviation has definitely been improved. Don't get me wrong on that. Just some tweaking to slow things down a little bit would be nice.

[Souls Of Mischief]

(Reference to an argument removed - Spec)

In a game thats touted as "realism redefined", when somebody you have the drop on can spin around, go prone and drop you in less than half a second, something is wrong. When I can sidestep through a doorway covered by an MG3, hipfire wildly, then take aim and headshot the gunner without even so much as a scratch, something is wrong. When I can dolphin dive and accurately place rounds on target at 200 meters from a dead sprint in less than a second, something is wrong.

There's something wrong here, but thats just my opinion.

Yeah, something is wrong with your aim.

[SIDEKILL3R]

(Reference to an argument removed - Spec)

In a game thats touted as "realism redefined", when somebody you have the drop on can spin around, go prone and drop you in less than half a second, something is wrong. When I can sidestep through a doorway covered by an MG3, hipfire wildly, then take aim and headshot the gunner without even so much as a scratch, something is wrong. When I can dolphin dive and accurately place rounds on target at 200 meters from a dead sprint in less than a second, something is wrong.

There's something wrong here, but thats just my opinion.

agreed to what you stated here somewhat