Muttrah Gameplay improvements

[Zeno]

Having played Muttrah ALOT these last years i have some suggestions to present:

1. Remove Cobra, have 2 Attackhueys, (1 respawn, 1 dont), switch MTLB 30mm to BMP-1.

2. Keep Cobra, add Shilka,

3. same as 2 but also add 1 M1A2 and 1 T-72, Remove LAV25 and MTLB 30mm

4. Remove Cobra, Respawnable cashuey, add 1 LAV25, Add BMP-1

5. As a suggestion to spice the map up after all these years, move the MEC main to A-13 mountains and add more PoI on the eastern highway, and make the AAS be able to cap from both directions (reduce the meatgrinder, let the easter side get some much wanter action)
(add more city to the east along the coast and have another flag there.)

please discuss

[zloyrash]

Dont forget more skirmish\infantry layouts

[Rhino]

Some interesting ideas, haven't actually considered a BMP-1 for the map I must say.

Shilka or any Air Defence Vehicle (ADV) would be too powerful on the map IMO since it wouldn't just be used as a counter against the cobra, and instead its main role would be to decimate the USMC's airborne logistics chain which would result in the USMC being pretty crippled.

add more city to the east along the coast and have another flag there.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@23.62197 ... a=!3m1!1e3

As you can see there, isn't much there, although since I made the map there is a lot more greenery there, and once you go outside the map's borders you enter Muttrah's main park (with a giant intense burner), and going much further down the coast (well outside the map's borders) you finally get to Takia. But there are a few POI I could add round there sure. Such as adding that roundabout, car park, more buildings, funny pond and gardens, but generally there isn't that much of interest there







Splitting the invasion into two is also risky from a gameplay perspective, it makes it a lot harder for the attackers to split their forces on this type of map but it is something I've considered and may do at some point, if I ever get round to updating the map which as noted I've been wanting to do ever since I first released it, just never had the time and had bigger fish to fry

A13 is a possible MEC base ye, but only has one route out which while yes, that is somewhat true for the current main, it is far more predictable where the forces will travel from by it, especially going to East city, and realistically there is no other routes out.


But ye, worth talking about these ideas, but I dunno if I will ever get round to doing a significant update to the map.

[Zeno]

My main concern is that something needs to be done with CAS, because the way it is now, CAS gunners get minimum 30-40+ kills each round, thats not good gameplay. My opinion the ATGMs just break the gameflow instead of helping it along.

The cas hueys are much more enjoyable for both sides as it still provides the punch that the US needs to attack and still is not OP so it becomes horrible for the MEC

[Rhino]

Can't say I've played Muttrah yet in v1.3 but the Cobra never use to be much of a problem, and only the very best of pilots (with spotters etc) could get any significant kills with it and with the recent changes to AA missiles and chopper physics and flares, I would have though it would be easier to kill the Cobra than previous releases, and with a longer spawn time less of a threat?

As for the CAS Huey, some actually find it a much more devastating bit of kit in some cases.

Would be interesting to hear if anyone else has noticed the Cobra being more powerful in the current release and/or if its been a huge issue in previous releases?

[PricelineNegotiator]

My main concern is that something needs to be done with CAS, because the way it is now, CAS gunners get minimum 30-40+ kills each round, thats not good gameplay. My opinion the ATGMs just break the gameflow instead of helping it along.

The cas hueys are much more enjoyable for both sides as it still provides the punch that the US needs to attack and still is not OP so it becomes horrible for the MEC

Even playing in 1.2.10 and 1.3, it's hard me for and my gunner to get more than 20 kills. Your team has to be constantly relaying information to you and APCs must present themselves often to really get above that number.

[Rabbit]

Having played Muttrah ALOT these last years i have some suggestions to present:

1. Remove Cobra, have 2 Attackhueys, (1 respawn, 1 dont), switch MTLB 30mm to BMP-1.

2. Keep Cobra, add Shilka,

3. same as 2 but also add 1 M1A2 and 1 T-72, Remove LAV25 and MTLB 30mm

4. Remove Cobra, Respawnable cashuey, add 1 LAV25, Add BMP-1

1. I think MEC armor is already better on the map, and the bmp-1 is better than the MTLB, it can one shot any of the US vehicles.

2. Would destroy infantry in the city.

3. Marines, so it would be M1A1. It would be interesting to see tanks on the map, but cobra would need to be removed.

4.Nice idea, but BMP-1 is OP as hell against the Marines armor.

[Steeps]

I have a piece of feedback about the US repair station. How and when does it spawn? We had to wait 14:30 minutes into the game before it and the logi truck spawned.

It really hurts US forces in that helicopters have to be completely relied upon until that truck spawns. It also hurts AAVPs that get hurt and have to just sit there waiting for 5 minutes for the repair station to spawn.

[ComradeHX]

Having played Muttrah ALOT these last years i have some suggestions to present:

1. Remove Cobra, have 2 Attackhueys, (1 respawn, 1 dont), switch MTLB 30mm to BMP-1.

2. Keep Cobra, add Shilka,

3. same as 2 but also add 1 M1A2 and 1 T-72, Remove LAV25 and MTLB 30mm

4. Remove Cobra, Respawnable cashuey, add 1 LAV25, Add BMP-1

5. As a suggestion to spice the map up after all these years, move the MEC main to A-13 mountains and add more PoI on the eastern highway, and make the AAS be able to cap from both directions (reduce the meatgrinder, let the easter side get some much wanter action)
(add more city to the east along the coast and have another flag there.)

please discuss

1. Cobra is fine now(as far as I have played muttrah in 1.3, which about 10 rounds); it's a city, not a desert. I think everyone need to play a few dozen rounds of Muttrah before judging on changes to CAS layout.
2. I could see this working somehow; but Shilka would be very easily destroyed by U.S. LAT and destroy infantry easily if not...the map would be too reliant on ONE single vehicle.
3. No way. Tanks don't have the elevation to deal with taller buildings nearby.
4. BMP-2 would work better; BMP-1 has ATGM which could be too cheesy.
5. A-13 mountains is a nice spot that smarter players fight over(because it watches over constructions, city, and northern road); having that be the main reduces the amount of city to fight in, because current MEC main has very little of...anything(the castle is either easily defensible or impossible to retake, and IIRC the most enterable building near that place is the parking lot).

1. I think MEC armor is already better on the map, and the bmp-1 is better than the MTLB, it can one shot any of the US vehicles.

Armour balance on Muttrah has been greatly upset by changes to smoke.

[tankninja1]

Remove it?

[ComradeHX]

Some interesting ideas, haven't actually considered a BMP-1 for the map I must say.

It wouldn't be realistic to use a BMP-1 in cities because of the minimum range of ATGM IRL.

Consider BMP-2.

[viirusiiseli]

Repair station spawns 10 minutes after Docks has been capped if I'm not wrong. Similarly MEC APCs spawn with their respective delays after South City has been captured.

A layer with MEC main to the right side of the map, H10 tiny city or M6? on the far right could be interesting. This way you would be able to have MEC main suburb as a flag, would bring lots of fun IMO. Wouldn't be a big thing to change right?

Just a different repair station, vehicle spawns and added flag. It would probably move the fight down into the south, could be interesting.

[Spook]

Remove it?

OUT!

My main concern is that something needs to be done with CAS, because the way it is now, CAS gunners get minimum 30-40+ kills each round, thats not good gameplay.

40 kills on Muttrah is damn good and rare, Muttrah doesnt work without extreme good ground spotting at all. Even on 1.2 you had hard times on Muttrah cause anywhere you attack you can be seen from all parts of the city, and usually there are 2-3 aa's manned and firing at you.

With the new AA system I am not sure if Cobra or Huey are even effective at all on the map, didnt try yet.

[Rhino]

I have a piece of feedback about the US repair station. How and when does it spawn? We had to wait 14:30 minutes into the game before it and the logi truck spawned.

It really hurts US forces in that helicopters have to be completely relied upon until that truck spawns. It also hurts AAVPs that get hurt and have to just sit there waiting for 5 minutes for the repair station to spawn.

Repair station spawns 10 minutes after Docks has been capped if I'm not wrong. Similarly MEC APCs spawn with their respective delays after South City has been captured.

Correct, I could look into lowering this spawn time a little to something like 5 or 7.5mins.

A layer with MEC main to the right side of the map, H10 tiny city or M6? on the far right could be interesting. This way you would be able to have MEC main suburb as a flag, would bring lots of fun IMO. Wouldn't be a big thing to change right?

Just a different repair station, vehicle spawns and added flag. It would probably move the fight down into the south, could be interesting.

Without significant edits to the map, would make base raping far easier, even outside of the base since the sea front road is very long and exposed epically for M10, and its the only way to get into the city.

Would have to do quite a lot, mainly with building up a defensible and protected area around there, with probably lots of AA weapons to really put off any choppers going near that area, but that in turn will narrow their area of operations quite a bit. Red = possible AA sites with max range (from map's VD of 700m) and the orange is how far people can see from what location on the sea wall.


A base in M10 would also seriously need at least another 1 more route out of it, which the only thing I could possibly do is make the old mountain path to the suburbs area, although technically it realistically starts outside of the map's borders so would have to make it a bit different from r/l, would require a lot of rework of the SW mountains and not sure how good it would be for vehicles to use
Walking route ???? | Oman Trek - Day 1 - Muttrah Corniche | GPSies









But doing all of this would significantly increase the re-enforcing time for the MEC to their front lines, although that can of course be worked around with other changes to the map

[BigBang]

Quick tought about some changes



Arrows represent flags (cap points).
1 - big ?parking lot? cor containers etc. and some silos, first flag of US in nowdays layout, repair st. etc
2 - alternative MEC base
3 - alternative routes from point 2, not matching r/l
4 - expand: mut. roundabout, lake and more buildings
5 - part of town
6 - Riyam park
7 - real walking route
8 - few buildings and alt. road, not matching r/l but may help to get in cover, maybe only parking lot with some vehicles, gas station and 2 other buildings

Alt. scenario: MEC base at 2, US pushing from docks and Riyam park to the middle of the city. Pairs of flags from each side, US need to cap both flags to get to the next flag(s).

What do you think?

[Rhino]

1. Ye, its there in r/l and would make a good staging area. Also wouldn't be as big as that.

2/3. As said before, not so keen on the idea and if done, it would really need those routes but going up and over the mountains would make them very exposed to CAS in the skies, and even more so from AT hiding in the city.

4. Ye, as said before its what is there in r/l, I just never got round to doing that when first doing the map, but in r/l it isn't as big as you've made it.

5. Would be quite a bit of rework.

6. The actual park is outside the map area and looks like this:

But there is a bunch of greenery leading up to it which ye could do.

7. Ye, as mentioned above, but would only really be of much use if either a, you had the MEC main in M10 area, or if you had an attack from the west into the centre, and one of the flags was the suburbs.

8. I would say its probably better adding lots of trees and greenery around there for concealment. Although yes, buildings would give hard cover, as you noted there isn't any there in r/l.

[BigBang]

The "3" routes would have required some rework of the mountains so cars won't need to go to the top of the hill. Something like valley hidden from the eyes at city center. But I don't know how far you want to go from reality And also my alt scenario could be without cas, only trans hueys and maybe one cas huey with long respawn time

At 8 a lot of threes and bushes it's also the solution and more close to the r/l.

The sizes of areas was only as example. They were not meant to be exact that area

Mountains slightly modified to cover the "3" routes. Sorry for bad quality but it's hard to do this changes on big pic with grit on top of it


I see one big problem with MEC base at M10. It's the huge rape fest at J7 and 8 area of incoming US troops... On the other hand there is acces to the land at G1.

[Zeno]

how about this, make a "mountain camp" main for the MEC in K-13 and make 2 dirt roads, 1 leading to the suburbs and one leading north to the highway.

This way it would make much more use of the overall map, as currently 1/4 of the map is unused and unplayed. maybe also remove 1 flag from the route so that its easier for the US to reach the Southeast part of the city. making Suburbs the last cappable flag.

Also adding a park in M10 area would be very cool.

[Rhino]

Mountains slightly modified to cover the "3" routes. Sorry for bad quality but it's hard to do this changes on big pic with grit on top of it

Ye, just the biggest issue I have with this is it going off so much from the real city layout.

I see one big problem with MEC base at M10. It's the huge rape fest at J7 and 8 area of incoming US troops... On the other hand there is acces to the land at G1.

Ye, reason why I put the orange radius there to show how far they can see from that location. Isn't so much of a problem now since people have to go out of their way to do any spotting there and its right on the edge of the VD so they have hardy any time to engage a target with a HAT or w/e but if they spawned there would be more common.

However they do have G1 as you noted and there are a few other options.

how about this, make a "mountain camp" main for the MEC in K-13 and make 2 dirt roads, 1 leading to the suburbs and one leading north to the highway.

Would be a tall order getting equipment up there:


It is an idea thou but ye, something to maybe think about.

Also adding a park in M10 area would be very cool.

Wouldn't be the park, would just be some greenery leading upto the park since the park is outside the map's borders.

[viirusiiseli]

Correct, I could look into lowering this spawn time a little to something like 5 or 7.5mins.

Without significant edits to the map, would make base raping far easier, even outside of the base since the sea front road is very long and exposed epically for M10, and its the only way to get into the city.

Would have to do quite a lot, mainly with building up a defensible and protected area around there, with probably lots of AA weapons to really put off any choppers going near that area, but that in turn will narrow their area of operations quite a bit. Red = possible AA sites with max range (from map's VD of 700m) and the orange is how far people can see from what location on the sea wall.

Maybe make a version of muttrah with the main moved to H10 and just add a couple of quads and make it a maptest event I'm sure with a proper DOD it would work nicely.