Kiowa Nerf

[PricelineNegotiator]

What about bringing the asset timer of some cas helicopters back to 15 min?

INB4 butthurt dedicated infantry cry rape if the timer is set back to 15 minutes. On a more serious note, the 20 minute time is out of hand. So many changes have been done to CAS assets in 1.3 it's kind of mind-boggling.

CAS now spawns 9 minutes later than it did previously (HOG for example) and when it dies, it takes 5 minutes longer to respawn. That is a minimum addition of 14* minutes to the respawning of a CAS asset. What is the average length of a round in PR nowadays? 45 minutes to 60 minutes? Let's say it's 60 for simplicity.

60 minute game - 20 minutes for first spawn = 40 minutes play time with CAS

If you go down, that's another 20 minutes off the clock.

40 minutes play time - 1 respawn = 20 minutes playtime.

The average pilot probably goes down once, maybe twice during a round. That's a pretty damned small window of opportunity for the CAS pilot to be out doing his thing, especially if he goes down twice. Only pros can afford to fly CAS now.

Let's say we changed both times to 15 min again.

60 minute game - 15 minutes for first spawn = 45 minutes play time with CAS

45 minutes - 1 respawn = 30 minutes playtime. Obviously a huge difference.

On Sunday night, I was flying the A-10 on Khamisiyah. My squad mates were telling me to go in a target that had AA surrounding it. I told them to wipe out the AA first, or else I was going to get my shit wrecked (rightfully so, the A-10 is slow as shit and AA is super OP against it now, even if you pop flares and pull evasive maneuvers). I ended up CTDing while hitting another target, right as the laze culled into view. I gave up because waiting 20 minutes at that point was just ridiculous. Of course, I love playing infantry, but waiting 20 minutes for hard assets now, just so infantry can *be more OP* is boring as fuck. This isn't ArmA, I don't know why we're taking it this far.

Basically, both times he dived in towards the cache, where I was. I got the lock as he was diving in and fired after 1-2 seconds, hitting him straight on. Even after I got the lock, he continued to dive in towards my position, trying to kill me with the rockets. Was it a mistake to keep on diving in even after the lock? Would changing direction and popping flares have saved him?

Doubtfully. I've flown kiowas just as you described and pop flares on the run, and will still be shot down. The thing is the kiowa is just too light even without the changes. The kiowa does not move fast enough to get out of the way of the missiles on a run unless your angle is extremely shallow.

[Rabbit]

INB4 butthurt dedicated infantry cry rape if the timer is set back to 15 minutes. On a more serious note, the 20 minute time is out of hand. So many changes have been done to CAS assets in 1.3 it's kind of mind-boggling.

Changes were done so one asset on a map couldn't be so powered. Maybe more changes will come, maybe with this changes they wont be walking away 50/0 and spawn times can be lowered as its more balanced. How CAS choppers are atm I refuse to put them in a map.

If CAS choppers start going 20/1 I would totally stand behind lowering their respawn times.

[fatalsushi83]

I actually wouldn't mind having the timers reduced even though I'm an inf player because now you can actually fight back.

[Mineral]

Timers arent gonna change. That's for sure.

[mat552]

Pity to hear that there are some things off the table in the quest for balance.

[viirusiiseli]

Not possible bringing back the briefing timer counting into the asset spawntime?

The problem atm is you sometimes get CAS when the game is already over due to enemy team attacking aggressively. When this happens CAS spawns a bit too late to do anything about it. Say if they spawned at 3:45 but had a 20min respawn it'd still be quite a late spawn but not too late. I thought CAS spawning at 3:50 was too early too, but 3:45 would be a good middle ground.

15 minutes should be enough time to get several AA fobs up, get your defenses ready etc. and the game would be at a more developed point where it can handle CAS without falling to pieces like in 1.2. But in the case of a team that is losing they would be able to make a difference with good prioritized CAS, unlike in some games atm. Do consider it, as it wouldn't require lowering asset spawns (that are good right now!).

[Mineral]

Briefing time is variable on a server to server basis. Hence we fixed it to provide consistency to our spawners and stop the confusion.

[Acecombatzer0]

I think 20 minutes is too long IMO, way to punishing for maps with 1 CAS like Muttrah or Beirut

But 15 minutes is too short for maps with multiple CAS, such as Saaremaa or Khamisiyah

Or perhaps a timer that is uniform for all maps (17 minutes?)

My only complaint about 15 min CAS is maps like Saaremaa where some d'bag CAS whore would just 2 man lock the squad and there would ALWAYS be a CAS helicopter in the air.

>CAS helicopters spawn 10 minutes into the match (As it was in 1.2)
>Mi-28 goes in the air, instantly gets shot down
>Mi-24 goes in the air, fly for 10 minutes, gets shot down
>Mi-28 is back in the air again fly for 15 minutes, gets shot down
>Mi-24 in the air again, rinse and repeat

There was always a CAS chopper in the air on that map with the 15 minute timer, and it never gave INF or APC's "room to breathe" after taking out a CAS chopper

On top of that, even CAS pilots are constantly hunting for enemy choppers, leaving them less likely to give their troops.... actual Close Air Support

TL;DR Make the timer variable by map, either 15 minutes for single CAS and 20 minutes for multiple CAS, or just add a 17 minute timer for ALL maps

[Mineral]

TL;DR Make the timer variable by map, either 15 minutes for single CAS and 20 minutes for multiple CAS, or just add a 17 minute timer for ALL maps

We are trying to get rid of more and more map specific changes. To provide more consistency overall. Variable timers still exist for some maps but in general we won't implement per map timers.

[viirusiiseli]

Briefing time is variable on a server to server basis. Hence we fixed it to provide consistency to our spawners and stop the confusion.

Fixing confusion over gameplay balance?

[Mineral]

Exactly...

[K4on]

CAS Spawn times wont be changed.

Though, we will change the round time of the LRG layers to be extended in the next version. Meaning that also heavy asset players can have more play time with their vehicles.

[viirusiiseli]

CAS Spawn times wont be changed.

Though, we will change the round time of the LRG layers to be extended in the next version. Meaning that also heavy asset players can have more play time with their vehicles.

Talking shit to me then editing your post? Very brave behavior.

Just FYI I don't wait 20 minutes in main for CAS, I try to help the team as much as possible before CAS is up. I was talking about situations where you cannot simply do much before air support is up (bad/unorganized infantry and armor).

In these types of games the extra 5-10 minutes for CAS can be the reason for not being able to affect the games course anymore with airsupport.

[PricelineNegotiator]

Surprising that all of the devs are so firm on their position now but let it be that way for a few years. Rabbit, your logic is flawed in that the CAS assets only get that many kills if there is NO AA. If AA exists, then CAS can do almost nothing now. The spawn timer has nothing to do it. Putting into effect the 20 minute timer plus removing the spawn timing from the briefing period gives CAS squads nothing to do in the beginning of the round. I feel like the devs aren't even playing the same game as us.

[Rabbit]

Rabbit, your logic is flawed in that the CAS assets only get that many kills if there is NO AA. If AA exists, then CAS can do almost nothing now.

Yes now,
[quote=""'[R-DEV"]Rabbit;2084787']Changes were done so one asset on a map couldn't be so powered.[/quote] meaning pre 1.3

[quote="PricelineNegotiator""]The spawn timer has nothing to do it. Putting into effect the 20 minute timer plus removing the spawn timing from the briefing period gives CAS squads nothing to do in the beginning of the round. I feel like the devs aren't even playing the same game as us.[/quote]

If CAS choppers start going 20/1 I would totally stand behind lowering their respawn times.

I dont know what logic you think is flawed here. Changes change how powerful they are, spawn times get dropped, which I am for, and sounds like you are for.

[X-Alt]

Yes now,
meaning pre 1.3




I dont know what logic you think is flawed here. Changes change how powerful they are, spawn times get dropped, which I am for, and sounds like you are for.

CAS is much more vulnerable in 1.3, bring it back down to 15 minutes, problem solved.

[Mineral]

Right. 5min less on timer and all CAS 'balance' threads will stop to exist CAS will be perfect haha

[Rabbit]

CAS is much more vulnerable in 1.3, bring it back down to 15 minutes, problem solved.

I don't think so, I think the issue is much more. If current "heavy" cas ex, ah-64, havoc are hovering up high and just in the viewdistance, I can't imagine it is much fun during the time you get to cas, I think a much deeper look is needed into cas gameplay. We only have 1 real cas whore on the team, and he doesnt code them. If you play cas a lot, and you don't enjoy it, I suggest you fix it. Don't take that as a "fuck you" response, just that we don't have anyone with the time and no how to do it.

[X-Alt]

I don't think so, I think the issue is much more. If current "heavy" cas ex, ah-64, havoc are hovering up high and just in the viewdistance, I can't imagine it is much fun during the time you get to cas, I think a much deeper look is needed into cas gameplay. We only have 1 real cas whore on the team, and he doesnt code them. If you play cas a lot, and you don't enjoy it, I suggest you fix it. Don't take that as a "fuck you" response, just that we don't have anyone with the time and no how to do it.

It's not that it's boring for INF, and CAS-CAS combat is quite enjoyable, even creating an anxious environment for some PR players. Honestly, AA is where it should be, what's not is the respawn timers.J ust let CAS spawn at 45 using the usual server start timers (and occasional confusion here and there), and keep the 20 minute respawn perhaps? Now, say a CAS squad goes 100+ in kills, it's a symbol that the team you're playing on cannot react to CAS, an army of Avengers should be able to deal with a Havoc, just saying.

[viirusiiseli]

I don't think so, I think the issue is much more. If current "heavy" cas ex, ah-64, havoc are hovering up high and just in the viewdistance, I can't imagine it is much fun during the time you get to cas, I think a much deeper look is needed into cas gameplay. We only have 1 real cas whore on the team, and he doesnt code them. If you play cas a lot, and you don't enjoy it, I suggest you fix it. Don't take that as a "fuck you" response, just that we don't have anyone with the time and no how to do it.

make me a dev ill do it