Automatic Rifles OP

[Mats391]

We will not go back to the prone only for deployed ARs. We had that in the past and it simply makes them useless.
Yes, standing in the open w/o anything to deploy on is unrealistic. However killing someone that does that is a rather easy task.
In my opinion the ARs are in a decent place right now. If you are having trouble being pinned down, get a bigger gun to help

[Rabbit]

I like LMG's MMG's in their current state. Granted I do use them more than any other kit but they are less accurate than their real life counter parts already. I don't see them needing balance atm but if they do I would only change deploy speed pr reload speed to make them talk longer. But that is only if they needed changing I feel they are fine atm, remember they are the largest causality producing weapon for infantries.

[SANGUE-RUIM]

SANGUE-RUIM, as someone who takes the AR and go solo around maps, exploiting the "standing with no place to deploy your AR but still firing in deployed mode", it does not surprise me that you don't want it to change.
(everybody does the deployed standing, but not everybody goes vanilla-solo with an AR)

I liked it more when it took sometime to adjust the sights, when the scope image was blurry and shaky. Better than current 5 seconds (or so) rule.

who goes around soloing with AR?

[PlaynCool]

Can't we add overheating MG's for AR's (just like on vehicles) and make them useless after continuous fire for 30 secs or so. This would be realistic, since in RL some squads carry extra barrels for MG's precisely for that and the overheat time could simulate the barrel being changed. If i remember correctly in vbf2 the inf AR could overheat but after a lot of fire.

[crazygamelover]

I found out recently that if you fire the M249 or MG3 excessively enough, it will overheat and you won't be able to fire/reload it. You have to fire a LOT of rounds (roughly 400-500) without a break, but it's possible. I haven't tried for the FN-MAG series, but I assume it would take quite a bit longer since its rate of fire is lower.

[Roque_THE_GAMER]

I found out recently that if you fire the M249 or MG3 excessively enough, it will overheat and you won't be able to fire/reload it. You have to fire a LOT of rounds (roughly 400-500) without a break, but it's possible. I haven't tried for the FN-MAG series, but I assume it would take quite a bit longer since its rate of fire is lower.

no one will ever fire like that on a normal situation, the only time i suffer this was on the insurgent side, i get high i was in the cashe with a PKM and i shoot non stop on the enemy direction, but then its over heat over a minute and then a a squad pass in front of me and i could't shoot at they, its was the fist time i meet this system.

[RunsWithBears]

What's the point of higher artificial suppression on LMG if you can't kill enemies much more effectively than with standard rifles?

Suppression from LMG works because you can see/hear a stream of mostly-accurate bullets; it tells you that you will die if you keep running out in the open.
Not because of some arbitrary amount of time when screen is blurry...

If one round from LMG does much heavier suppression than standard rifle; then how it is balanced with 45(the worst)-200 rounds?

Yes and no.

In PR the fear to die is not present as it is in real life (obviously). This fact alone makes "natural" suppression (for the lack of a better term) a lot less effective than it should be.

The other problem is that in PR, you can fire at your opponent whilst only exposing a sliver of yourself. The age old problems of "firing out of your eyes". So even when someone is supposed to be naturally suppressed, it is still possible for him to aim out of the window without the MG gunner being able to punish him as would happen in real life and sometimes even being able to kill the MG gunner.

To compensate for these factors which make suppressive fire much less effective than it should be, a mechanic like a blurry screen or slightly less accuracy whilst under fire are necessary to keep combat realistic.

[ComradeHX]

Yes and no.

In PR the fear to die is not present as it is in real life (obviously). This fact alone makes "natural" suppression (for the lack of a better term) a lot less effective than it should be.

The other problem is that in PR, you can fire at your opponent whilst only exposing a sliver of yourself. The age old problems of "firing out of your eyes". So even when someone is supposed to be naturally suppressed, it is still possible for him to aim out of the window without the MG gunner being able to punish him as would happen in real life and sometimes even being able to kill the MG gunner.

To compensate for these factors which make suppressive fire much less effective than it should be, a mechanic like a blurry screen or slightly less accuracy whilst under fire are necessary to keep combat realistic.

No, you don't know what I was talking about.

[sudsy]

This is where the COD myths come out, people believe that MGs and ARs are wildly inaccurate bullet hoses. The standard when I was a machine gunner in the army was first round hits with the c6 SF/c2 combo at 1600m, even with a bare naked c6 first burst hits off a bipod out to 800-1000m were not overly difficult. Then you have the c9(m249) which is just as if not more accurate than a c7 rifle.

[fatalsushi83]

I actually wish ARs in PR were closer to reality in terms of accuracy. I remember trying to take out guys with controlled single shots at relatively close range (under 100 meters) when there wasn't time to deploy my SAW, and I just couldn't hit them at all because it was so damn inaccurate, hitting completely off the crosshair. Made me feel like I was shooting a paintball gun.

I can't speak from real-life experience but it also seems strange that it takes so long for the deviation to settle. Do people really fire that inaccurately after a sprint? Even hitting a target at 100 meters is nearly impossible unless you wait the full 6-8 seconds. I also don't understand what the logic is for making deviation settle time so much longer for deployed mode other than for balance issues.

[KaB]

The succession of movements in BF2 are extremely fast compared to reality. For example, jumping on two boxes and aim accurately at your target can take you 2 seconds ingame, while it would take around 10 or 20 IRL, considering you're a tired soldier wearing shitload of equipements.
So the deviation is here to simulate those slower movements, as, once you've finished doing them, you need to wait for the real soldier you could be IRL to finish doing them.

[Cossack]

AR's are fine. Like said before, they are killing machines and working even worse than RL counterpart.

[Frontliner]

I can't speak from real-life experience but it also seems strange that it takes so long for the deviation to settle. Do people really fire that inaccurately after a sprint? Even hitting a target at 100 meters is nearly impossible unless you wait the full 6-8 seconds. I also don't understand what the logic is for making deviation settle time so much longer for deployed mode other than for balance issues.

Well, there's a number of things you have to consider, such as the soldier's fitness and how well one is trained with a rifle, the weight and bulkiness of the gear you're carrying(particularly body armour can be very cumbersome), terrain features(solid ground, sand) and, last but not least, stress and psychological factors. Even under very favourable conditions it takes (some) time for you to be sure that your round will hit the mark, even on rather low distances like a hundred meters, and the settle time is meant to simulate this.

With that said, then we have to consider the limitations of BF2/how BF2 handles stuff, for example that your rifle doesn't sway(which is something you'll not be able to reproduce in reality unless you can rest your rifle), it doesn't tilt even ever so slightly to the side, soldiers don't tire out and you sight into your rifle instantly whilst perfectly aligning the sights. If the game could emulate all of the above according to reality it would allow for a more "natural" and reliable way of knowing when you're ready to fire(Squad Devs, make it so), but even if that were the case, there's still a disconnection between mouse and keyboard, and an actual physical object you have to hold steady, straight and on target in order to hit.
Incidentally these are the reasons why soldiers aren't(? can't speak armies other than the Bundeswehr*) trained in their rifle profiency via videogames.


*Well, there is a simulator for us[AGSHP], but it still works with mock up rifles featuring actual recoil(air pressure cycles the rifle after a "shot") and sensors detecting various parameters in order to improve proficiency rather than mouse, keyboard and accuracy statistics.

[LakeMole]

I still believe deviation is too little on all weapons, US army uses 250k bullets per insurgent killed.
US forced to import bullets from Israel as troops use 250,000 for every rebel killed - BelfastTelegraph.co.uk

Obviously, we should not increase deviation to those numbers, but it would be nice to know what the current bullet per insurgent is in PR and make some changes based on that. .98 had good deviation in my opinion.

[KaB]

.98 had good deviation in my opinion.

I second that.

[tankninja1]

Isn't the point of ARs to be a little bit OP?

I mean they should be a feared weapon that you wouldn't just blindly rush at.

[LakeMole]

Isn't the point of ARs to be a little bit OP?

The argument is that ARs are supposed to lay down suppressing fire to allow the rest of your squad to flank the enemy, call in CAS, or call in armor to take out the enemy like modern armies do. The problem with this is that infantry squads don't need to call support because they're unrealistically effective, and likewise don't have the time to call in support. When most engagements lasts less than minute you cannot call in support.

By nerfing ARs, you're effectively removing it from play because why use it as a suppressive weapon when every other rifle is a dead accurate laser beam? You would have to increase the deviation of all weapons to make the AR viable again.

[fatalsushi83]

KaB, just let us fire the new BAR

[zloyrash]

I still believe deviation is too little on all weapons.
.98 had good deviation in my opinion.

from 3:00
https://youtu.be/-mSxXXpapwQ?t=3m