For the time being, get rid of Officer kits

[Vicktor Vauhn]

This thread has been mostly just people explaining it to you:

Having the SL be a certain kit requires him to use his squad for support, he now needs a medic, needs support, ect....

You say that their is no advantage to the current system, it only disadvantages those using it incorrectly. But by hindering those who aren't playing with a more diliberate style isn't there automaticly and advantage given to those who are?

Player limits encourage formation of squads large enough to contain proper supporting roles

If the kit could be requested at any location it might as well not be required. The majority would exploit this by waiting to request the officer kit until they needed to place the RP, picking back up their old kit right after.

I think the 75m is legit, if it is shortened it shouldn't be much....In the same way that you often leave your vehicle and approach on foot from a short distance Id prefer to have a distance to group our selfs and be far enough back to circle around and attack from the other side if need be on the next spawn.

I would however like to see The min players set to 3 though.
Last night for instance I was in a good squad with an active squad leader. To keep potential stragglers from getting separated he would kick anyone not playing with the squad after a warning. This often left us with a three man squad. We could have kept a 4th in just for the sake of numbers, but at the cost of some of our SL's authority.
Ive had similar circumstances before, it seems that late in the round when there is already 2 full squads it can be hard to gather up 4 team players.


Edit: Just thought it should be re-stated that so much of the problems complained about is cause by the players...The devs do need to take into account real life inefficiencies, but more so the players just need to be more efficient.

[ayjazz]

I agree, the min number needed for being able to take the officer kit needs to be reduced down a bit, of course, not down to one for obvious reasons. The biggest problem is that this officer kit and rally point business seems to be set up to function in a perfect server with a perfect team, and that is not always the case. If we just add some new features that would force squad leaders to take the officer kit, such as they not being able to request another kit until they place down a RP, would could solve some of our problems.

[Ranbir]

I have to say, this whole attitude that "They don't know how to play, tough on them" is very bad.

I don't think you can honestly expect we are EVER going to get a point where everyone playing on a public server will know all there is to know about this mod.

Let the SquadLeader by default be able to set the RP. It isn't harming all the 'L337' Project Reality players and is at the very least helping those newcomers ease into the game. Besides, the last thing they should be worrying about or having to learn is how to get the ability to set RP when there are far more important aspects of this mod.

The biggest problem is that this officer kit and rally point business seems to be set up to function in a perfect server with a perfect team

I concur. This set up is under the assumption everything and everyone is playing perfectly. That seems like a very rare case and generally one side is going to suffer from this than from the actual playing of this fantastic mod.

[Smitty4212]

Sorry, no where in the Wiki could I find a why it is a good idea to make a really important part of the game unnecessarily complex. Perhaps you could explain, o' PR guru.

Give me break. Unnecessarily complex? Because it makes you actually TRY to be able to have the advantage of rally points? Rally points are a privilege for squads that know what they're doing. If you can't squad leader or find a good squad, oh well, not every team you'll play on is good, not every server you'll play on is good.

Anything that weeds out people who can't learn the simple basics of getting an officer kit and placing out a rally point sounds good to me.

[sarcasm]But seriously, giving all SLs the ability to drop rally points at any time would really make the game so much better. Having to defend against infantry spawning at APCs, main bases, their squad leaders, and 7 constantly changing rally points placed randomly around the map? BRILLIANT IDEA.[/sarcasm]

Having the ability to always be able to create a new spawn for your squad without putting in any work and using the officer kit (which is essentially what you are suggesting) is a bad idea. Basically all you want is an extra spawn point when your squad leader doesn't know or care to place a rally point by using the officer kit. What I could see coming from this change is a lot more Vanilla style play. Spawning at rally point, rushing into the battle, killing and dying quickly because you know your rally point will be there and repeating. As is now, if you don't have a rally point, you are forced to really care about your life. Knowing that you may have a 500 meter run if you die should make you a lot less inclined to die.

Any suggestion that is based around easing in the new players is, in my opinion, a terrible idea. Because once everyone does learn the game and we don't need this 'feature' any more, we're stuck with a crappy gameplay change. If you don't bother to read the manual or learn the game beforehand, you don't have a right to complain. And it's been what, less than two weeks since 0.5 has been out? Not everyone, even those who DID read the manual and DO know how to play the game, has adjusted. So before you make suggestions that would drastically alter the game and decrease the learning curve (which is one of the greatest things about PR), I suggest that you give it some more time.

[Ranbir]

Ok, surely it should be possible to automatically give the SL the officer kit? Afterall we want the SL to have the OK, right? It's out the way, the SL has the OK, let's get to setting up all that squad base of operations and get those objectives. He also can't switch to another cause he's a SL, yeah?

Now we don't have to depend on the SL getting the OK kit, we just have to depend on him using it. Surely this must sound reasonable for all concerned?

[.:iGi:.U.G.H.]

Possibly the 4 worst points ever made in this forum??

Pretty much.

I've been playing all week on pub and in matches and the rally points have been great.

[DrMcCleod]

Give me break. Unnecessarily complex? Because it makes you actually TRY to be able to have the advantage of rally points? Rally points are a privilege for squads that know what they're doing. If you can't squad leader or find a good squad, oh well, not every team you'll play on is good, not every server you'll play on is good.
.

This is where you are wrong. They are not a 'privilege', they are a crucial part of the new spawning system. As such, they should be easy to use and no squad should be short of one because the SL forgot to pick up a particular kit when he spawned. Especially since the extra kit serves no obvious other purpose.

[Hides-His-Eyes]

I agree, the min number needed for being able to take the officer kit needs to be reduced down a bit, of course, not down to one for obvious reasons. The biggest problem is that this officer kit and rally point business seems to be set up to function in a perfect server with a perfect team, and that is not always the case. If we just add some new features that would force squad leaders to take the officer kit, such as they not being able to request another kit until they place down a RP, would could solve some of our problems.

I like that idea a lot.



SL can still reject officer kit and take another, but he can't try to fill a specialist role in his squad when he's needed as an officer

[Maistros]

The solution to this is for people to un-learn previously formed Squad Leading tactics and Re-Learn how to effectively lead and deploy a squad in .5

Radical changes to gameplay mean radical changes to tactics.

The only change I could see being implimented is limiting the Squad Leader's kit request choices to officer kit only, like the commander.

[Vicktor Vauhn]

The mod isn't made for everyone, maybe it isn't the mod for you?

The point is not to pander to the lowest common denominator, why does everything need to be made drop dead simple?

You request a kit, then place a rally point. Its not even that complex.

I'm a terrible squad leader, and I pulled of getting rally points set no problem.

If you don't plan you fail, as it should be.

[DrMcCleod]

Maistros']The solution to this is for people to un-learn previously formed Squad Leading tactics and Re-Learn how to effectively lead and deploy a squad in .5

Radical changes to gameplay mean radical changes to tactics.

The only change I could see being implimented is limiting the Squad Leader's kit request choices to officer kit only, like the commander.

I think that would be the ideal solution, TBH.

[DrMcCleod]

The mod isn't made for everyone, maybe it isn't the mod for you?

The point is not to pander to the lowest common denominator, why does everything need to be made drop dead simple?

You request a kit, then place a rally point. Its not even that complex.

I'm a terrible squad leader, and I pulled of getting rally points set no problem.

If you don't plan you fail, as it should be.

That really is the most stupid remark. This mod is still in development, changes to game-play are experimental. If they work well, they are kept. If they don't they are changed, that is why we have these discussions on this forum - to feedback thoughts and ideas on how the people who play this game think it should develop. If you are such a fanboy that you cannot handle that, then maybe you should return for Release 1.0, when nothing will disturb you harmony.
In my opinion, taking the Officer Kit is an unneccesary step in what is otherwise a very interesting spawn system.

[Ranbir]

The only change I could see being implimented is limiting the Squad Leader's kit request choices to officer kit only, like the commander.

Sounds like it will please everyone here in the thread. And with that, I'm off to play...too bad most of the servers are in the US (Dare not play on them, high ping, detrimental for my teammates!)

[Fenix16]

For petes sake, if the mod is too complex for you, go back to vanilla.

[Fluffy918]

The RP system works great, you just have to get used to it.

[DrMcCleod]

For petes sake, if the mod is too complex for you, go back to vanilla.

For pete's sake, if you dont understand the process of software testing, maybe you should stick your head up your big, fat arse.

[{9thInf}GunnyMeyer]

Okay, this is getting really personal. First, let's just step back and look at the thread. The supporthas mainly been for keeping the kit. It isn't going and that is how it is. We don't need to change for the lowest common denominator. That is another aspect of games. If you cannot understand it, then try to form to the game or leave. That is why people hate EA, they change to the lowest common denominator and take all skill out of the games they have. I do not want to see that for this mod.

[Smitty4212]

I really like the idea of making officer kits the only request kit available to squad leaders.

I really dislike the idea of spawning squad leaders with the officer kit.

[Robbeh]

For pete's sake, if you dont understand the process of software testing, maybe you should stick your head up your big, fat arse.

Your not software testing your just being lazy...
This game is about tactics, each kit/army/vehicle has its strengths and weaknesses it just so happens that the officer kits main strength is the ability to deploy a rally point.
PR isnt meant to be easy and it does have a big learning curve from vanilla but everything you learn adds to the gameplay and if you cant be assed to figure simple things like this out then maybe this mod isnt for you