For the time being, get rid of Officer kits

[dunkellic]

okay, i´m just gonna finish this

the officer kit WILL stay and we have NO plans of replacing it any time soon - this discussion is totaly pointless

[Hfett]

I used to be heavy AT all the time when being a SL

Now i respaw Officer, set a rally point at a good point(well hidden) and still play with heavy AT =P

[Fenix16]

I really like the Rally Point style gameplay, but at the moment, too many things need to go perfectly before a Rally Point can be set.

1) At least four in the squad,
2) SL remembers to pick up Officer Kit at HQ,
3) SL gets to a suitable location without getting killed,
4) SL remembers to deploy RP.

Ok, let me reword my last post. If the above requirements are too complicated for you to understand and/or carry out, go back to vanilla. Nothing is wrong with it nor needs to be fixed, pr promotes teamwork and no amount of "software testing" is going to change the way people interact with eachother. If you take away any of those reqs your right back to a bunch of lone wolfs running around with their own personal spawn points.

[DrMcCleod]

Okay, this is getting really personal. First, let's just step back and look at the thread. The supporthas mainly been for keeping the kit. It isn't going and that is how it is. We don't need to change for the lowest common denominator. That is another aspect of games. If you cannot understand it, then try to form to the game or leave. That is why people hate EA, they change to the lowest common denominator and take all skill out of the games they have. I do not want to see that for this mod.

It isn't a question of 'lowest common denominator', it is to do with designing a system that enhances the game play that people play this mod for - team based, combined arms combat where tactics pay off and squads work together. The current Officer Kit system detracts from that system by adding an unneccesary step to deploying squad spawn points. Therefore it should be adjusted. No amount of childish remarks about 'not understanding the system' will change these simple facts. If you have an argument to put forward on why the current OK system _enhances_ gameplay then please, make it. If not, then admit it.
Bear in mind that 90% of time spent playing this game will be in a public server, with a variety of random people, the game design should be such that these people are strongly encouraged to work together, and you don't need blind fortune to have a satisfactory experience. The Rally Points are an example of a good design to achieve a level of squad work. The OK system as it stands is not.

[ayjazz]

Currently, I see three types of people in this discussion. One group refuses to admit that there are some flaws in the RP and OK system and seem to insist that it is perfect and flawless.
The other group refuses to see that the RP and OK system have their place, and insist that it be removed from the mod altogether.
I'm with the third group. We see that the RP and OK system have their place, but need some tweaks in order to work well. This can be done simply, which I have stated before, make it so that the SL cannot request kit besides the officer kit until they get the OK and place the RP. A SL job should first to lead his men, not sniping, blowing up tanks, or flying planes. Also the number of people needed in the squad for a RL and a OK should be brought down to at least three or two.(preferably three)

[TheCaptn]

It isn't a question of 'lowest common denominator', it is to do with designing a system that enhances the game play that people play this mod for - team based, combined arms combat where tactics pay off and squads work together.

It's exactly lowest-common-denominator... And your opposing classification makes no sense.
What you're asking for is a system whereby the N00biest McN00ble can be a squad leader, he automatically has an officer kit without having to put in the slightest bit of effort, and he can just drop rally points anywhere anytime. That's not tactical at all, and your own motivation should tell you as much. You want this change so that you can charge into the firefight as frequently as possible, without the inexperience of your squad leader getting in the way. Right? Well that's anathema to the whole purpose of the mod.

'Tactical' is your squad leader having to make considered choices about how he approaches the enemy and where to site the RP in that context, knowing that a failure to do so has serious consequences. Not the zero-consequence method you propose.
'Tactical' is your squad having to work together to protect their key member, the leader, so that he can do his job making sure they have a safe position to fall back on. Not just a few guys sharing a spawn point and rushing off to join the firefight as individuals.
'Tactical' is using the opportunity of a failed advance (and it happens to the best squads) to reassemble at the main base and prepare a new assault on an exposed flank of the enemy. But you're trying to avoid ever having to return to the main base at all.

Having to travel, sometimes long distances, is a key element of this game that makes it more than just a mindless shooter. The battle has an ebb and flow as assault is met with counter-assault, a wave of attackers is beaten back, or the defenders are overrun. Firefights aren't constant, they happen in generally brief but furious spurts, with the occasional protracted battle.
Please stop trying to turn the game into some kind of constantly active "All Action, All The Time!" front line.

There are a few changes that would tweak the squad system to perfection in my opinion. No timer on officer kit requests, three people needed in a squad instead of four, and supply drops that come down in about 2/3 of the time it currently takes them... To be honest I'm not even sure if I'll like the 1 Minute timer on RP placement. Seems a little too short for me.

[fuzzhead]

Thank you Mudercity, TheCaptn, Fishwork for responses.

McCleoud please read them carefully

[Deadmonkiefart]

I like it the way it already is.

[Fenix16]

As I said before McCleod, go back to vanilla BF2 or 2142. Im not going to make a long response to your last post, as the people above me have already done that for my cause, but what your suggesting IS EXACTLY the same way that 2142 is. Everybody can squad lead, everybody can lay down becons, and there is little or no actual squadwork, save the few squads consisting of clans or friends. Instead of trying to turn PR into a noob fest, go somewhere else. PR is supposed to be more complicated than vanilla. Dont try to simplify that.

[Ugly Duck]

We should all just kill our selves, life is too complicated. Why I almost forgot to breathe this morning.

[Woody]

..................That's a really depressing thought............................

[IronTaxi]

silly thread getting sillier...LOCK PLEASE!!



its not really that important and its all steps along the road to a greater version...no sense spending time splitting hairs about it right?

cheers all..

[TheOldDog]

TheCaptn you put forward the ‘ideal’ of squad behaviour. I have encountered what you describe exactly, and its very rare, as valuable as diamonds. But if only 2 squads for every 6 consistently drop RP’s then the game is simply not commonly played the way you suggest it either could or should be (at least on public as opposed to closed or clan servers.

If that’s the case its necessary to work out why and question if and how play quality and/or game design can be ‘lifted’ or ‘altered’ so that the game experience is rich for all involved. The alternative is to end up with a game that is simultaneously really enjoyable if you’re lucky enough to find yourself in a good squad and barely tolerable if you don’t.

I can see no evidence of anyone wanting to turn this into ‘All Action All The Time” because the spawn timer alone would drive anyone of that mentality insane to run off shrieking to another shooter.

[.:iGi:.U.G.H.]

For pete's sake, if you dont understand the process of software testing, maybe you should stick your head up your big, fat arse.

It was tested and as the majority here and elsewhere agree, it works fine.

[DrMcCleod]

fuzzhead']Thank you Mudercity, TheCaptn, Fishwork for responses.

McCleoud please read them carefully

Fair enough, we all want the same thing from this mod, and the developers vision is really coming together. I look forward to seeing the squad mechanics further improved in 0.6.