medic kit suggestion

[wooly-back-jack]

I think that doing all of that except for a few of the suggestions that Mongol made could be bad for the medic class. I mean, they already have 6 defib shocks, carry no frags, and have limited amount of ammo. You really think someone is going to play as a medic if you nerf it or make it more complicated? People want to play as medic to help people out, but they still want to be able to fight as well.

there are good medics like that but they are outnumbered by players who pick the class purely to heal themselves, either to dip their balls in their medipack half way through a firefight to give them an edge, do stuntman jumps and heal themselves or just keep topping up on health as they dont like waiting 31+ seconds.
I have had medics crawl over my injured body, even steal my kit. No I dont expect them to run through a shower of bullets to get to my body. If I feel myself dying I will try and die in a shed or behind a tree or something.
Doesnt hide the fact that they just walk right by you or stop and have a quick look, get their breath back then run away.
Nearly all good suggestions in this thread so far, apart from suggesting they arent a good idea.

[DrMcCleod]

One issue I have which affects the medic class is the amount of time it takes for a smoke grenade to build up a decent amount of cover. If a friendly goes down in the middle of a street DrMcCleod isn't gonna sprint over and zap him back on his feet, no siree. He is gonna lay some smoke down first, but given the new (cool looking, but slow) smoke deployment, by the time he can do it safely the patient has expired.
This may be just an issue on servers that set lower spawn timers (FOOLS!) but faster smoke deployment would be nice.

As to changing the medic mechanics, the Egglord's idea is a good one. Howabout a revive requiring the medic to 'medkit spanner' the injured party back up to 25% health (or so) before he can stand. This way, the medic has to work on him in situ rather than zap, sprint and heal. Not sure how this would work considering the limited amount of time you have to get to a fallen comrade, might require quite a few changes to the code.

[.:iGi:.U.G.H.]

eggman']The only current changes planned for the Medic are to require that they "fire" the medic kit like the Wrench. The intent of these changes is to avoid them healing when sprinting and, possibly if it works the way I hope, avoid them healing themselves (tho they carry a field dressing and can use that).

That sounds fine for the 'fired' healing of other players but I can see a lot less medics playing if they can't self heal. If they are going to be nerfed like that then at least give them body armour, and more points for healing! As it stands I only find my fellow clan members healing me really as there is next to no points reward for it so little incentive for people to bother.

[$kelet0r]

Hopefully all PR maps will have a repair station and medi-centre at the base flags

Because of the issue with bandages is it possible to require them be used (left click to use)

[wooly-back-jack]

being able to resupply yourself with bandages at main bases (not just the uncap) would be nice.
Say for example theres a medical room at industry and you can resupply yourself with a bandage while you are there aswell as getting ammo. (I dont mean at every flag obviously)

[Aljen]

As to changing the medic mechanics, the Egglord's idea is a good one. Howabout a revive requiring the medic to 'medkit spanner' the injured party back up to 25% health (or so) before he can stand. This way, the medic has to work on him in situ rather than zap, sprint and heal. Not sure how this would work considering the limited amount of time you have to get to a fallen comrade, might require quite a few changes to the code.

I really like that idea. It would need much more dedication and work then simply to dive&zapInFlight as is usual in vBF2. If you as a medic would have to zap and then heal to x% on the site before your patient is able to walk = follow you to finish healing under some cover (Currently some braindead patients usually run to the middle of firefight after revive = lost defib charge as they are down in 2s spamming "medics!" again! Oh how I hate that!) then it would be more interesting to choose this kit.

[.:iGi:.U.G.H.]

I really like that idea. It would need much more dedication and work then simply to dive&zapInFlight as is usual in vBF2. If you as a medic would have to zap and then heal to x% on the site before your patient is able to walk = follow you to finish healing under some cover (Currently some braindead patients usually run to the middle of firefight after revive = lost defib charge as they are down in 2s spamming "medics!" again! Oh how I hate that!) then it would be more interesting to choose this kit.

Far too risky for most medic's to bother. I'll happily revive anyone out in the open after a quick scout around to see who killed him and maybe a smoke down if it looks risky but there's no chance i'm lying in the middle of the road for more than 3 seconds to work on getting him up! I zap and return to cover, hoping they will follow to get fully healed.

[Jaycop]

I like the "wrench-pack" idea, but what I would love to see along that is the defib being changed into an adrenaline shot instead. Would be from what I know about medics a whole lot more realistic.

[[uBp]Irish]

with all those ideas, when you look at militaries now, medics dont usually get assault rifles like the regular rifleman do (correct me if i'm wrong). Since alot of good ideas have been proposed, what if instead of a rifle, and this is going against all that i've originally thought, medics get a pistol. The tradeoff however would be that they would get say double the defibs than they usually get as well as more smoke grenades (which can actually play a vital role). this might be a nice solution to rambo medics that use the rifle more than doing the teamwork aspect of the class that is really required.

with a pistol + more defibs, i would think the tradeoff would be balanced because the medic wont be a killing machine and thus those people that play medic for the wrong reason wont want to be a medic anymore. However, the people that do like to play a true corpsman will actually be able to do the job more effectively since they will have more defib options. i would think this would be a balanced tradeoff

[M.0.D]

The thing is, that medics have a weapon in war only to defend themself and their patients, as they are not allowed to take part in the "regular" combat.

[Determined]

The thing is, that medics have a weapon in war only to defend themself and their patients, as they are not allowed to take part in the "regular" combat.

Your comment confuses me abit. During urban ops you don't have your medic kicking in the door, but when moving from point to point you come under fire, the medic is fighting alongside everyone else.

[Rick_the_new_guy]

eggman']The only current changes planned for the Medic are to require that they "fire" the medic kit like the Wrench. The intent of these changes is to avoid them healing when sprinting and, possibly if it works the way I hope, avoid them healing themselves (tho they carry a field dressing and can use that).

This is great to hear.

Doing so will slow the game down more.
Also, those who still choose to be medic will be more interested in role-playing their position in the platoon.

If this works out, there would be no need to limit the kit, because less players will pick it. The vamparic rejuvination aspect will be taken out, thus making the kit more a nitch kit and closer to real life.

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Also have to make admins on a mistake I wrote above in post number 13.
When I said I get annoyied with more than one medic in a squad. I should have wrote in an assault squad.
I do not have a problem with a medic squad that supports the assault. Therefore, I am one of those persons who DO NOT want squads to be limited in the special kits or kits that they have in them.

[77SiCaRiO77]

now hardly ever you see a medic , with does changes we are only goin to see 1 or 2 . i like the chnage of the medic about the medicbag"wrench" , but maybe you can make it like bf1942 , so you can heal you self ONLY if you arent running

[Rick_the_new_guy]

Opps, almost forgot.

I do not know if the medics in .5 can be resupplied on their revives.
So my question is. Per spawn, medics have 6 revives and that is it; Or if they get a supply bag it will reset or add more revives.

If not, I would recommend the .6 medic to have no more than 10 revives/spawn.

If the medics can recharge their pads, cool; I like that way.

[Eyre]

I feel that entirely taking away a medic's ability to heal himself is a terrible idea. Hear me out. I know that it is annoying to have lots of medics playing rambo, running around, healing themselves and ignoring people's calls for a medic. And I agree that medics sometimes abuse their ability to heal by jumping from higher ledges or during firefights. But taking away this ability to self-heal would mean that any squad that wanted to be self sustaining would pretty much need 2 medics to have the same level of survivability as you see now. The squad medic no longer has to worry about keeping the squad leader alive, but also keeping the other medic from bleeding to death when he takes damage. Otherwise, if the squad is serious about playing as a unit, the medic kit will just bounce from player to player (which doesn't do much for the sake of realism, although I'm one who is willing to forgo uber realism as long as the gameplay is fun) as members are killed and another picks it up to keep the squad alive.

Removing self healing also puts a huge limit on what risks a medic can take to revive a downed squad mate. Granted, it is unrealistic for any medic to sprint head first into an enemy's field of fire, but with some of the clipping problems the BF2 engine has (parts of bodies sticking through cover, being killed by bullets that sometimes come through solid objects) if a medic gets tagged, he has no option but to die like everyone else - one would think that he could at least be assured of being able to stabilize himself. Field dressings sure as hell don't cut it - I have only successfully stopped myself from bleeding out a few times with field dressings. Most of the time I just increase the time it takes for me to die a slow agonizing death.

I fully support instituting BF1942 style healing for teammates (a la the magic wrench style medic bag) but if changes must be made to self healing then place limitations on it, don't remove it. Require that the medic be completely stationary to heal, and decrease the effectiveness (i.e. make it take longer) if the medic is healing himself. Or limit the total % that a medic can heal himself to. It just seems counter intuitive to me that a medic in this game (that while striving for realism must also serve to make tradeoffs for the sake of playability) still has a very high likelihood of bleeding to death after a major encounter.

Without some sort of organized battlefield ambulance service, it would hurt gameplay to have medics that cannot effectively heal others to full health, and cannot AT THE VERY LEAST be assured of being able to get themselves to a resupply/other healing position without bleeding to death, especially after being wounded and successfully withdrawing from a contact.

[00SoldierofFortune00]

You described the situation at hand.

There are two polarites.

1. The more real life medic.
Found one/per Infantry Platoon in real life (limited kit 4/32 players).

Medic should never be a limited kit, because no matter how good your squad is or how tactical you guys are, your squad will always need at least 2-3 medics itself. 1 for the squad, and 1 for the SL.

Stays low and reacts to wounded teamates (Role Playing here).

That is a good idea in theory, but you really think people are going to actually want to just heal teammates and not partake in the battle around them which is the whole point of the game? Almost as bad an idea as the field cameraman.

Can only focus on one person at a time (Reduce healing orb).

Has a limited amount of equipment to heal and tend to criticaly wounded teamates (limited amount of healing and reviving; althought would be nice if they could go to a Supply crate or APC and reequipe.

How much more limited should the medic be given? He already has 6 revives which isn't very much especially when you have a hard time finding rifleman in this game instead of grenadiers. He also only has 2 smokes, and 4-5 magazines of ammo, which is only for personal protection. There is a point when you totally make the medic class useless to himself and the squad.

2. Status quo medic in .5.

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I lean more to the first polarity.
For example, two medics/squad is annoying. Granted, it is wise for the arcade nature of the game, but I like to see the game continue to approach realism. For some, this may be too realistic, but not for me. As far as I am concern, as long as the game allows unlimted respawns, it is no way close to a sim.

What you do not realize, is that this game will always be half realism and half gameplay. Make the game more realistic as what happened with the M4, and it makes the game less fun. Make the game about gameplay(SAW is not limited/no delay) and the game because too vanilla. Right now though, the medic is about as good as he will probably ever get plus or minus bandages and a few other things.

If you give them the wrench medic, who do you expect to medic the medic? What will happen is that squad members will just pick up a downed medic kit to medic the medic, and then you will have people switching kits every second and be unable to play as the one they want in the squad. I can see that giving them the wrench maybe worth a try, but PLEASE LET THEM MEDIC THEMSELVES.

Seems like people sometimes forget to realize how easy it is to die in this game. Is it really necessary to turn more people off?

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[/Quote]P.S. We can not let the vanillia "retard" players effect how the mod is made. Blank them. As I have said before, the players on the server make the game (any game) what it is.[/QUOTE]

Actually, that is what this mod is built around. Turning off the vanilla retards and making the game more realistic while still having good gameplay. If you do not think about what players will abuse and "whore" (M4), then you will have the game end up being like 0.4 with a lot of problems.


You can nerf the medics as much as you want, but that will never be the problem in this game. The problem will always be uber vehicles, grenade launcher spammers, or spammers of rockets/nades and vanilla tactics. The medic is the last class you have to worry about. The main problem though is still maps.

Trust me, this idea will never work as long as you have maps like Inishial Forest, Oman, Al Fallujah, Goods Station, Muttrah, Hills of Hamyong, And Mao Valley. The only way this seems like it would work is on large scale, spread out, and huge maps like Jabal, Kyongan Ni, Al Basrah, Greesy Mullet, and Qwai River which are not really kill fest and your squad has time to regroup.

[[uBp]Irish]

That is a good idea in theory, but you really think people are going to actually want to just heal teammates and not partake in the battle around them which is the whole point of the game? Almost as bad an idea as the field cameraman.

Actually yes, i do it. I save lives. I keep my teammates and SL up at all times. I pop smoke when crossing roads for squad cover. I run across streets to get people up and stay there till they get back to life. Why? cause i lag to much to actually have a chance at shooting someone. I play a medic in my clan's fireteam and my job is to a) make sure i stay alive b) make sure SL stays alive c) make sure others stay alive, with priority in that order (pretty basic) I only pull out my weapon when i know i'm going to be running around a corner into some bad people. The thing is, last time i checked, medics protected under Geneva Convention, are only allowed to use a weapon in self defense and not in assaulting a position. This is why i said maybe a pistol or a small SMG (carbines are what are used now in U.S) This would limit their "rambo power" yet still give them some protection.

[00SoldierofFortune00]

Irish']Actually yes, i do it. I save lives. I keep my teammates and SL up at all times. I pop smoke when crossing roads for squad cover. I run across streets to get people up and stay there till they get back to life. Why? cause i lag to much to actually have a chance at shooting someone. I play a medic in my clan's fireteam and my job is to a) make sure i stay alive b) make sure SL stays alive c) make sure others stay alive, with priority in that order (pretty basic) I only pull out my weapon when i know i'm going to be running around a corner into some bad people. The thing is, last time i checked, medics protected under Geneva Convention, are only allowed to use a weapon in self defense and not in assaulting a position. This is why i said maybe a pistol or a small SMG (carbines are what are used now in U.S) This would limit their "rambo power" yet still give them some protection.

No, medics such as the Navy Corpman carry full assault rifles(M16) and actually do defend themselves as they are represented in the game.

And yea, that is fine and all if YOU do that kind of stuff, but this is suppose to be for the masses while still being fun, and that kind of setup just isn't fun. How many dedicated Heavy AT guys do you see right now? I already have a hard time getting someone to take it in my squad for at least some of the game, let alone when a tank comes by.

And LOL, what rambo power does the medic have? He doesn't even have any nades, and if you are killed by him, you probably deserve to die.

Frankly, it seems like these topics are always created out of spite from being a couple times by one particular class instead of taking a good hard look at it.

This class is the least of your problems ingame. How can you spam or whore something that is there to save your life?

[casualtyUR]

The biggest problem with Medic is not the Medic but the soldier being healed. The injured trooper wants to stay on the front lines while being attended to and both die in a grenade attack or close assault.

I for one will start to heal a man, letting him know I'm there, and then retreat to a safer position, hoping the soldier will follow. This rarely works but ...

The push button heal is fine (wearing mouse out faster, lol).
I give the Medic back his 2 grenades.

[Rick_the_new_guy]

I fully endorse what egg said about the .6 medic.
Why? It sounds more realistic and closer to real life.
I am still lobbying for a more realistic game.


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The main logic for discussion is destroying gameplay or improving gameplay for the individual.

Will the .6 medic survive and be an asset to the platoon if played like a vBF2 medic? Heavens no.
Will the .6 grunt survive and stay alive if played like a vBF2 grunt? Heavens no.

Will the .6 medic survive and be an asset to the platoon if played like Irish describes. Hells yes.
Will the .6 grunt survive and stay alive if they understand/adapt to the limitations put on the .6 medic. Hells yes.

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The Teams and platoon that travel and assault the same way as the do in .5 will struggle in .6.
Why? Their medic will not be superman anymore.
The grunts will soon need to adapt to these limitations or die.

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If the community believes the .6 medic is too realistic and destroys gameplay, I am sure the Devs will change it back in a later patch.