Increased Armor or Decreased Damage? (0.6)

Promagnum · Post by **Promagnum** » 2007-05-31 22:25

Well, I've been playing .6 beta for about 5-6 days now searching for possible bugs. However, most of them from what I've read up on have already been discovered with the exception of a few.
One thing I have surely noticed is the decrease in infantry damage and an increase in infantry recoil, armor (tank, apc) damage and accuracy.
What was wrong with the bullet damage in 0.5? Nothing, in fact it was close to actual 1 shot 1 kill if you managed to get an above the chest shot off. Now I've successfully put 4 bullets into the enemies upper body & head 3 feet away to make them drop. I need to research if this is what happens in real life but I'm pretty sure it isn't, I don't know though...
The infantry damage changes (or body armor as I haven't figured out which it is) need to be thought over and reverted if possible, otherwise its simply a full armor mod (even more so then .5) as infantry is quite useless with the current class matching in these maps.
The balance is extremely lopsided;
Insurgents vs British = British
US vs Mec = US (with the exception of Burj)
Militia vs British = British (militia has ww2 weapons)
China vs US = US (with exception of Qwai)

Other issues
One I've experienced numerous times is when driving an apc and at any point if I switch to the gunner seat and switch back to the driver. I experience a stuttering effect, almost like rubberbanding lag but worse. I'm not sure what causes this (I don't believe its poly clipping as much as I think it has something to do with the modifications to APCs). It has done this a few times on different maps, not all the time but it has happened with and without passengers.

- G3 Scope. I've found out is completely useless unless you sit there for quite a long time before you conefire that magic bullet and get 5 inches of recoil straight up! Seriously, I think with the amount of conefire the G3 already has, putting a scope on it and lowering its recoil would be the logical choice. I mean the gun is useless automatic anyhow so why not just let the chance be taken with the conefire, especially semi-auto and prone.
Currently its, Decreased Damage + Super Recoil + Scope = Scrap Metal

- FPS. Seem to be experiencing a lot more drops in frame rate, I pass this off to the current state of the maps. I.e. a lot of clipping objects, miscellaneous objects in the air, etc. But I haven't changed a thing graphic wise and it is seriously bringing my comp to its knees now. This should be looked into as I'm fairly certain half of the players have less of a high end rig then myself. Not some cheap attempt at self-importance either, merely mentioning it cause I don't even push this mods video settings and I'm experiencing this in 0.6.
*Usually happens at random times, weather you're looking at the ground or simply another char changing weapons. It's rather strange, almost as if the server is hanging up and you've received the connection warning. This is completely seperate from the stuttering APC/Tank issue.

- Foliage. Any way to make this forced client side? Otherwise its pointless, formation is pointless as well (which I tried to explain to fuzz) but you can turn all terrain foliage/undergrowth off client side. Meaning if you don't know already, I and everyone else can see you where you are, thinking you have cover in the high undergrowth. You don't, that's why I shot you.
Forcing this client side would bring a tremendously large change in game play, think of all the cover you actually could use or be worth a damn. cause right now its terrain bumps and trees.

- Bleeding, any class that doesn't have a medic class should either have satchels that actually do shit or just die. What is this bleed for 15 minutes from a stubbed toe all about? Has the bleed out time increased or has the amount of damage taken before you start bleeding been decreased?

One huge bug in 0.6 I have found, not sure anyone really noticed but I'm positive some did, but apparently Al Basrah is still in Project Reality. I've been up for the past two days and I'm still failing to figure out how it is possible that this map keeps sneaking into the releases. I'm going to check on it a bit more to see if I can find out how to successfully remove it. Viruses are a *****...

- Tank/APC disabling is great. I noticed however that on Mestia when the British APC is disabled, it literally can bounce out of control almost 5 feet into the air.

What exactly are the point of the civilians?

Expendable Grunt · Post by **Expendable Grunt** » 2007-05-31 22:41

Al Basrah is supposed to be in the game...

Promagnum · Post by **Promagnum** » 2007-05-31 22:47

Did you feel that breeze of wind just now or was it just me?

El_Vikingo · Post by **El_Vikingo** » 2007-05-31 22:48

Yeah, wtf you on about?!

The games gun based on realism, not to suite your needs.

Promagnum · Post by **Promagnum** » 2007-05-31 22:53

Wait, what?
Somehow I thought I was talking about realism and bugs, not my needs. Actually I take that back cause its a double standard, my needs are realism in the game so what exactly are you going on about?

Post by **Katarn** » 2007-06-01 00:06

Gun damages were not decreased and recoil was not increased. The only recoil changes iirc were to the 5.56mm weapons in which it was decreased. I dunno what you are on about on the g3 scope though - most people are saying it's too good, never not good enough. We really can't do much along the lines of foliage except increase the undergrowth draw distance which would further decrease your framerate - adding onto the ones you already have.

Framerate issues are most likely to do with the way Project Reality maps are different from vBF2 ones. Project Reality maps have viewdistances and objects drawing at distances 4x as far as vBF2 - however the clipping objects are usually due to the uncorrectable 4km bug. Random stuttering and stuff like that is usually due to the amount of python code running in the background and other jittery things - optimizable.

Bleed start was increased from 40% to 50% health for this release.

Al Basrah is an excellent map with a quite a few additions and positive changes (imo) so you shouldn't dismiss it like you just did. Great gameplay can be found on this map.

The British APC dancing when disabled is a bug currently being fixed.

MichSt-Spartan · Post by **MichSt-Spartan** » 2007-06-01 00:07

Promagnum wrote:Wait, what?
Somehow I thought I was talking about realism and bugs, not my needs. Actually I take that back cause its a double standard, my needs are realism in the game so what exactly are you going on about?

You're bitching about Basrah, the best city map ever made for PR. If you don't like it, don't play it.

daranz · Post by **daranz** » 2007-06-01 00:13

The civilians are there to provide recon, medical and repair assistance, and improved mobility to insurgents in a realistic way. They're also there to simulate real life ROE, which in today's world isn't "shoot everything you see, then shoot some more before asking questions."

NYgurkha · Post by **NYgurkha** » 2007-06-01 00:22

it stil only takes a few shots to bring a person down. Using the G3, AK or SKS (those 7.62 guns) will kill a armored infantry with reletively few rounds. Its most likely that your expireiencing the BF2 hit box glitch.

Every faction has a medic, some cant revive, but all can heal. For the insergents the civi's are a sort of medic.

Civi's are extreamly important assets, with the ability to grapple, has binocs, lots of field bandages.

/me thinks you might be a bit crazy and the viruses are not in your computer but in you

ArmedDrunk&Angry · Post by **ArmedDrunk&Angry** » 2007-06-01 00:26

Civilians RULE
One of the greatest inovations in the game and added to a revamped excellent map.
Al basrah was totally overplayed in .5 and yet there was still at least 1 24/7 server up last time I checked.
As far as your high end rig goes ....maybe it's not as high end as you thought or you should check out some of the optimization tips available on the forums.
http://realitymod.com/forum/showthread. ... timization

Promagnum · Post by **Promagnum** » 2007-06-01 03:36

'[R-DEV wrote:Katarn']Gun damages were not decreased and recoil was not increased. The only recoil changes iirc were to the 5.56mm weapons in which it was decreased. I dunno what you are on about on the g3 scope though - most people are saying it's too good, never not good enough. We really can't do much along the lines of foliage except increase the undergrowth draw distance which would further decrease your framerate - adding onto the ones you already have.

Maybe it was a combination between the latter that you described and the fact that armor has been increased.
i.e.
Recoil x frame rate/stutter is doing this.
But I do know for certain that something was changed with the damage, be it increase of body armor or decrease in weapon damage as it was not like this before. I'm fully capable of testing things ingame and believing my own eyes even if I don't know the exact change but rather the changes effect.

'[R-DEV wrote:Katarn']
Framerate issues are most likely to do with the way Project Reality maps are different from vBF2 ones. Project Reality maps have viewdistances and objects drawing at distances 4x as far as vBF2 - however the clipping objects are usually due to the uncorrectable 4km bug. Random stuttering and stuff like that is usually due to the amount of python code running in the background and other jittery things - optimizable.

Bleed start was increased from 40% to 50% health for this release.

Al Basrah is an excellent map with a quite a few additions and positive changes (imo) so you shouldn't dismiss it like you just did. Great gameplay can be found on this map.

The British APC dancing when disabled is a bug currently being fixed.

Ok that answers a few questions.
Though I'm not dismissing my comment, but I have dismissed that map from the moment it was released. You know every forum troll can say its great, there is a 24/7 server for it, yadda, yadda, that is equivalent to saying de_dust for cs is good and realistic because a lot of people like it.
I'm sorry but good games or not, doesn't make it good nor realistic and if you'd like I can make an article depicting all the problems with it, both for accurate realism in comparison to Al Basrah or simply for the sake of bad level design.
You know, there were a few custom maps for infiltration long ago that were played consistently because that's what certain people who played the mod wanted to play consistently. But they were not official maps for a reason and you know what? simply for the sake of argument, abiding to what the gamers want may be realistic in a sense of marketing, however it isn't realistic by staying true to what this mod is supposed to be about. And I stress what this mod is supposed to be about by the title and what has been said since its first public mini-mod release, realism.
If simply stating that a map is terrible by breaking it down to what it really is (regardless if it doesn't get me in good with the moderators or Dev's or even a higher fucking post count) will get me flamed or interpreted as some sort of outsider by the troll community, then we might as well start calling this project CS. Cause the more that this mod goes way off in the lackey direction, the more it makes it just the same old shit. In which anyone who plays realistic fps could give two shits about.

*And by lackey I mean people who think they know what realistic is (and also think 300 is a fucking documentary).

NYgurkha · Post by **NYgurkha** » 2007-06-01 03:53

wow, what is it with all the hate and anger towards people in the forums and for Al Bashra.

The dev's lovingly created that map, and by all accounts looks very realistic.

/alas im just positng becasue i want to be here before the lock, where is viking btw?

Post by **Jaymz** » 2007-06-01 04:24

@Promagnum: Weapon damage was not decreased mate, I think Katarn and myself would know.

gerardnm · Post by **gerardnm** » 2007-06-01 08:36

whay the increase from 40-50% for bleed effect.

40% imo is too high

Post by **Outlawz7** » 2007-06-01 09:17

Well, you dont bleed out right away ^^

Insurgents have no body armor, thats why they are easier to kill now...
All the rest was probably the hitboxes lag, we cant do anything about BF2's crappy codes...

jerkzilla · Post by **jerkzilla** » 2007-06-01 10:15

I won't bother posting my own comments on civilians so I'll just comment on the G3 thing.
You probably get the impression of 5 inches of recoil because of the zoom on that scope. As far as I know, all other scoped assault weapons currently in game are of a smaller caliber than the G3 and you probably got used to those but when you used the G3 with it's 7.62 mm caliber, it's big recoil looks even bigger while zoomed in.
I agree about the foliage idea, too bad it's hardcoded...

BlackwaterEddie · Post by **BlackwaterEddie** » 2007-06-01 10:23

the M14 is also 7.62mm and doesnt suffer the same problems.

El_Vikingo · Post by **El_Vikingo** » 2007-06-01 12:19

Prognarum, a realistic game is still a game.

The recoil seems higher because you have a scope, ffs it's not that hard to understand.

Al Basrah, is the most popular map, and is one of the best maps made for PRM, infact even BF2v.

Oh yeah, and stop complaining about performance issues. If your PC isn't capable of running Al Basrah, then either upgrade, lower your settings or join the army.

Post by **Bob_Marley** » 2007-06-01 12:37

The reason the weapons appear to do less damage is because of the greater prevalence of bodyarmour in v0.6. All standard classes apart from SF have bodyarmour. Which means that all pick up/requestable kits that are taken by non-SF using players also have body armour.

This means that the weapons (most notably the G3 because it no longer has an effective 1 hit kill against medics and whatnot) feel slightly less powerful than in v0.5.

Also, when using a scope recoil feels substantially greater than it actually is because although the weapon moves the same distance you are looking at a smaller area through your 4x scope than you see through the 1.5x iron sights.

Long Bow · Post by **Long Bow** » 2007-06-01 14:55

Promagnum wrote:If simply stating that a map is terrible by breaking it down to what it really is (regardless if it doesn't get me in good with the moderators or Dev's or even a higher fucking post count) will get me flamed or interpreted as some sort of outsider by the troll community, then we might as well start calling this project CS. Cause the more that this mod goes way off in the lackey direction, the more it makes it just the same old shit. In which anyone who plays realistic fps could give two shits about.

Spot on there, if Al Basrah is included PR = CS, PR - Al Basrah = not CS. That is perfect math right there. No grey area with math.

This is a modification just about to hit 0.6. That is 0.4 away from 1.0, math can be fun kids

With each release the Devs make improvements in the maps to make them more realistic. However some concescions need to be made due to the limitations of the BF2 engine and peoples computers. I for one think that every single building in Basrah should be destructible = realistic. However we both know that could never happen, so the game must retain certain "gamey" limitations. I know your not nieve enough to ask for something like that and that you probably have actual facts and figures on what would be realistic for Al Basrah. I think that bringing those facts into the map would be great however it will take time and some items simply can't be added or changed.

Oh and I take offence to the troll/lemming comment I prefer blissfully ignorant internet genius