v607 Armor & Infantry Suggestions

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Wolfe
Posts: 1057
Joined: 2007-03-06 03:15

v607 Armor & Infantry Suggestions

Post by Wolfe »

Reduce/eliminate armor sliding on incline surfaces.
Even slight inclines cause armor to slide to one side. This makes it very difficult to aim at medium to long ranges which is the purpose of armor; to engage at these distances. Firing the weapon or moving slightly can trigger sliding. And I'm not talking about a 45 deg incline; it slides on 5% inclines or any surface that isn't 100% smooth and flat. We found that if the driver exits the vehicle, it stops sliding sooner, but from a realism point of view, an 80-ton tank should have a firm footing on most incline grades without having to exit all the time. Is it possible to reduce or eliminate this effect?

Increase tank torque power on incline surfaces.
For example, the APC can muscle its way up and over a steep incline (maybe even too much) while a tank, which theoretically has more power and traction, has trouble with this especially from a dead stop. Also, moderate inclines cause the tank to slide left or right while attempting to drive over it. In short, a tank cannot follow an APC through the same path of terrain and it seems like it should be the other way around.

Remove spawn ability from APC
Before anyone goes flying off the handle on this suggestion, hear me out and I think you'll agree. The APC is meant to be a support vehicle, not a mobile all-in-one spawn and equipment base of operations. If the spawn ability was removed from APC's, the following would be enhanced:
  • Infantry squads would require more cooperation and teamwork by establishing and protecting their rally own rally points instead of relying on a nearby APC.
  • Commander assets would be more valuable. If the APC was not spawnable, then the only places that an entire team could spawn is either the main base or the forward bunker. As it is now, why bother building and protecting a large, static, unarmed spawn bunker when an APC is spawnable, mobile, and armed? It makes a bunker obsolete.
Remove spawn ability from squad leaders
Again, hear me out on this one. You know how this goes; a full squad moves into a defended bunker with the main goal of getting the squad leader inside and safe so that reinforcements can pour out from within. Not a very realistic scenario. Reinforcements should come from the outside, not within.

If the squad leader spawn ability were removed, the a squad would have to be much more careful about planning, attacking, and defending an objective instead of squad members behaving like zerglings, not caring about death, because they know they can respawn in 30 seconds right on top of the action.

To the Devs:
Thanks for all of your time and effort. The mod is looking good and the 607 beta is a totally different game than .5, and for the better. I love the new sounds, the armor improvements, the distances, and the huge maps. I wish small arms weren't so accurate, but I understand the engine limitations and you can't please everyone all the time. Overall, you guys are doing a damn fine good job.
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Post by noir-colombia- »

i like ur ideas and ur speech, i support u
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ZanderArch
Posts: 216
Joined: 2007-03-07 21:40

Post by ZanderArch »

I'll have to shoot down and disagree with your suggestions.

The thing about Tanks and APCs not having very much traction is because of the BF2 Engine. It doesn't have any traction values and all movement power is based on speed. This is why a FAV or DPV can climb a hill at a 91 degree angle, but a big beefy MBT has trouble on a speed bump.
Based on what I know, I don't think it is possible to fix the sliding and traction ability.

As for APC/Squad Leader Spawn points, these are metaphors for having more troops in combat. Since the server and/or engine can only hold a max of 64 players, which is small compared to the conflicts they are engaging in, spawn points and tickets are used to give the effect of more soldiers in the fight.
And, it does take some coordination to keep an APC in a good spot for it to be spitting out freshly spawned troops, and most of the time the Crewman got out and joined the fight, so they are unmanned and easily destroyed with a AT or Engineer (Type class) attack.
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VipersGhost
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Post by VipersGhost »

I dont disagree with some of these. I'd love to test the gameplay first before doing so. We already have rally pts and now spawn bunkers. I think the rally pts might be able to take the place of SL's and spawn bunkers can take the place of APC's. Its definitely interesting and might make for a little more of a "battleline" instead of guys spawning straight onto their SL. Though SL spawn is a very nice and easy way for keeping sqaud cohesion and in public servers limiting this might really spread teams thin. It seems like it might be forcing the issue a little but who knows...I think it'd definitely be worth testing! Hell you could easily test it within a controlled environment by just having your buddies/testers not spawn on SL's or APC's in your own server or whatever. Oh and torque on tanks is being increased...dunno about the sliding stuff.
Crusader09
Posts: 179
Joined: 2007-06-26 16:51

Post by Crusader09 »

Reduce/eliminate armor sliding on incline surfaces.

Completely agree on that. BF2 engine willing, it will allow a tad more realism into the pool.

Increase tank torque power on incline surfaces.

Once again, I agree on this. In real life, an M1 tank can travel on and hold steady on a 60 degree slope with ease. I have noticed that the tracks in game act more like wheels.

Remove spawn ability from APC

This may prove to be a disaster in my opinion. If the players are smart, the APC can be used as a foward arming point because bunkers can't travel.

Remove spawn ability from squad leaders

I'm a bit neutral on this one. Most of the time when the squad is engaged in a firefight, the squad leader just goes on and fights with them when he should stay back and provide tactical support such as spotting them out with the binocs. Also there is the fact that if the leader is bleeding out, no one can spawn on him until he is healed up. Overall, I don't know about this one.
Dunehunter
Retired PR Developer
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Post by Dunehunter »

I like the first two, don't really like the last, and I'm not sure about the second. It is true, however, that once a "spawn apc" (one without a gunner) is spotted, it's clock is ticking down, so I dunno. It's not that big of a problem really, gameplay-wise.
$kelet0r
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Post by $kelet0r »

If the Devs could make it so that would be say 10 or so respawn spots on an APC and once those were depleted,the crewman needed to return to a commander outpost or rear flag for 'reinforcements', I would be delighted. Knowing the BF2 engine however.....
ZanderArch
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Post by ZanderArch »

$kelet0r wrote:If the Devs could make it so you could have say 10 or so respawns on an APC before the crewman needed to return to a commander outpost or rear flag for 'reinforcements', I would be delighted. Knowing the BF2 engine however.....
That's a great idea, but I don't think it would be possible to set up Respawn tickets specific to a certain vehicle that could be rearmed.
Great idea though.
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VipersGhost
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Post by VipersGhost »

Yeah APC is good to leave as a spawn and a nice metaphor...especially with such huge maps...cool to have fixed spawn number! I'm still out on the SL spawn...with rally's etc it might be a decent move to remove this and push the need for rally pts. It might even force the retarded SL's to drop a rally. I HATE it when whole squads run around with no rally and SL's are diving into battle 24/7 then spawning on carrier leaving maybe 1-2 squads alone and undermanned.
77SiCaRiO77
Retired PR Developer
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Post by 77SiCaRiO77 »

maybe two variants of apcs , one armed with a mg and able to spawn on it , and another with the cannon and no respawn abilitys .
Wolfe
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Post by Wolfe »

I think 2 variants of APC's may be too confusing. It is already confusing enough to remember which kits you can obtain from which vehicles in relation to their distance from a flag.
(removing SL spawn is) definitely interesting and might make for a little more of a "battleline" instead of guys spawning straight onto their SL.
That is exactly the line of thought, especially in infantry-only maps. Instead of guys spawning everywhere, squads would spawn in and move as a group, as a squad should.
As for APC/Squad Leader Spawn points, these are metaphors for having more troops in combat.
All respawning is a metaphor for more troops. But when 1 guy slips past defenses then multiplies into an infinite number, that doesn't fit into that metaphor. Squads will still have rally points and teams will sill have spawn bunkers.

The rally point acts as the reinforcement troops metaphor, and squads would have to hold the line to protect those reinforcements. Squads would behave more as a unit and have to look out for each other more instead of rushing in without fear of dying because they know they can spawn in right where they left off.
77SiCaRiO77
Retired PR Developer
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Post by 77SiCaRiO77 »

the fun is in the variety , ididnt find it to confused .
arneboe
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Post by arneboe »

you shouldn't remove the spawn on the apc.. as ppl say it's a metaphor for more troops being brought in to the fight from the rear by Armored Personell Carriers.. think it's nice the way it is.. I agree with you on the tank sliding issues though..
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VipersGhost
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Joined: 2007-03-27 18:34

Post by VipersGhost »

Seems like a mixed bag of results...probably best to keep them the way they are and wait to see if any more "revolutionary" idea arise to change things.
Long Bow
Posts: 1100
Joined: 2007-03-21 14:41

Post by Long Bow »

I like your ideas except for the SL spawn removal. It is vital for keeping Teamwork going. Loss the ability to spawn and I think it would degrade squads more then enhance them. :grin:
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