Make the SAW manditory

[Kruder]

They are useful against multiple moving targets,other than that you can fire happly untill first rifleman approaches from the corner and puts a bullet in your head.

[VipersGhost]

Suppression fire works but only at close ranges and only a small area...maybe 1-2 guys next to each other behind a rock. Also the SAW is the most effective at it with so many bullets firing...some of the slow ROF LMG aren't all that great for it.

Heh still...I find the support kit to be an AWESOME assault kit(best in-game) combined with proning and lots of full auto. You can rush/flank and enemy and just destroy them. Otherwise you are a sitting duck waiting for insta-aim rifleman.

[Guerra]

I freaking love the saw. It's by far my favorite weapon in PR, and it's an absolute killing machine in the right hands.

It's incredibly accurate, insane rate of fire, and has shitloads of ammo. I remember assaulting a VERY well defended fortress. Myself and another saw gunner just pelted the complex with bullets as our entire squad rushed in, had we tried it without the cover fire, we'd have been smashed to pieces. Having rounds shoot at you greatly effects your view and accuracy, so while suppressive fire meant nothing in vBF2, it's wonderful in PR.

I think 4 support kits is fine personally. I find that they are under taken simply due to player inexperience.

And if you want to avoid getting sniped while laying down heavy supressive fire, go prone and strafe around in tall grass, it's cheep, but it works.

[Waaah_Wah]

PKM is better than SAW

[CAS_117]

I think the saw needs a scope. Pretty much every gun in the US military in live combat has a scope, even engineers are issued scopes.

[TF6049]

A sniper should be used to take out targets at long distance and pin down others. MG people are good for clearing out bunkers and CQB as they have a "hose of death".

[Zaknafein]

A scope on the SAW would be pretty mean, and would probably make it get used more. Don't know why though, personally I think the iron sights are pretty damn accurate anyway, you can still hit stuff far away as long as your not churning lead out.

Ps. As for suppressing fire, I find hitting the floor around the target works better for me, aswell as scaring the hell out of me when used against me personally.

[Long Bow]

It's a combination of things already listed: lack of effect from being struck, lack of environmental damage from bullet impact (dust and debris), accurate scoped rifles and no fear.

I know that I like using the support guns but only in certain situations. If I'm in for a lot of long range fire fights I will leary to open up with it for fear of of being picked off. I do enjoy laying down suppresive fire with it and supporting the squad but it seems I never have the kit at the right time

[Masaq]

To summarize what's gone so far in the thread then (other than mandatory SAWs, which are unlikely I'd've thought due to the impact of stolen LMGs on the rest of the squad/team):

1) Additional visual effects when hit - blurriness, distortion etc
2) Additional enviromental effects from nearby rounds - more dust, more noise (shrapnel?)
3) Some form of sight on the LMGs
4) Additional deviation for proning riflemen whilst proning etc to limit insta-accurate shots

...would all make the use of suppressive fire more attractive.

Seems like most of those might be doable, I'd've thought. Devs? (Oh, and guys - suggestions in the suggestions forum, for simplicity's sake?)

[NikovK]

I wasted a full squad of Sinos coming around a corner on Seven Gates with the 249, just waiting for the ducks-in-a-row to all expose themselves before pouring on the lead. The gun does work exactly as it should if the range is right. Unfortunately the LMG's are outranged by all the scoped riflemen running around. A solution is to increase stock deviation on battle rifles just a tiny bit so your odds of popping heads at 500 meters with your banged-around mass produced rifle go down. Meanwhile give the Squad Automatics a little more zoom into their ironsights than the standard battle rifles. This way at range volume of fire becomes more frightening than the pop-pop of riflemen-snipers. Scoped sniper and marksmen weapons, of course, retain their dead-on accuracy.

But controlled bursts, down-pull on your mouse and firing on grouped and not individual targets make the SAW's a legitimate weapon out to medium range. I think its worth noting the 5.8 SAW (QBB) and 7.62 LMG (H&K) deserve better accuracy at range than the volume-of-fire 5.56 SAW (249). That thing strikes me as a carbined machine-gun.

[Tartantyco]

-This is something that should not be fixed by coding it, squads should start using SAWs because they're useful, they should get the point when their entire squad gets mowed down by one support gunner and start using it themselves. If people don't use kits then that's their loss, isn't it?

[Celestial1]

Just a couple of ideas. Not sure of the realism or gameplay values, but just thoughts that might help make it a bit more fearful.

1) Make the spray of the LMG a bit wider, perhaps, while still keeping it accurate, so that some more of the bullets hit surrounding targets and hopefully players, and making it deviate less per distance?

2) The "sonic snap" that occurs when a bullet passes your body could also be a "trigger" for the bf2 shellshock effect (yeah, it's wimpy but it would annoy someone with bullets going past them and make them run to cover more often, blurring their vision as well to help with the inability to just headshot the gunner).

3) The "gun to hip" idea that has been suggested over and over, or maybe even just a change in accuracy for the first couple of shots after being hit (kind of revert to the silly accuracy system vBF2 used so you kind of just spray worthlessly in a frenzy even on the first shot?). It would seem better to me for the second idea because it would just seem strange being shot and then you just pull down your gun, but instead you keep the ironsights but greatly reduce accuracy along with the "blur/fuzzy" effect to help avoid the same problem so it seems a bit more "Damn, I'm getting shot... I can't see a thing, gotta get to some cover before he can get me!" than "Oh, he shot me... Let me just right click and reaim..."

-EDIT-:4) Perhaps limit the fully available number LMGs within a squad, IE 1 per squad but every squad can have 1.

I think it'd be more of a reason for someone to avoid being shot *at* all together for the vision and sounds. I mean, just think you get blurry and the sonic "snaps" when bullets passed, and maybe even better if within half that range without hitting you, you also get the tinnitus effect to annoy and let you know that they got really close to hitting you. Dunno, my thoughts on the subject and maybe a long first post.

[CAS_117]

The saw has an effective range of 1000m IRL. Thats not just a number, thats some of the recorded hits in campaigns in Bosnia. The M-16 has a range of 500m. In PR, the M-16 can outrange the SAW. Give it a scope and the results will be reversed. The PKM and SAW are about 2x of their counterparts. Combat sights are required.

[Rico11b]

I wasted a full squad of Sinos coming around a corner on Seven Gates with the 249, just waiting for the ducks-in-a-row to all expose themselves before pouring on the lead. The gun does work exactly as it should if the range is right. Unfortunately the LMG's are outranged by all the scoped riflemen running around. A solution is to increase stock deviation on battle rifles just a tiny bit so your odds of popping heads at 500 meters with your banged-around mass produced rifle go down. Meanwhile give the Squad Automatics a little more zoom into their ironsights than the standard battle rifles. This way at range volume of fire becomes more frightening than the pop-pop of riflemen-snipers. Scoped sniper and marksmen weapons, of course, retain their dead-on accuracy.

But controlled bursts, down-pull on your mouse and firing on grouped and not individual targets make the SAW's a legitimate weapon out to medium range. I think its worth noting the 5.8 SAW (QBB) and 7.62 LMG (H&K) deserve better accuracy at range than the volume-of-fire 5.56 SAW (249). That thing strikes me as a carbined machine-gun.

I like what you saying with this I really do. However, I'd like to harp on one point. 500 meters is still a bit much for expecting any kind of head shots from an assault rifle! It's dang near impossible to get a head shot on a target at 300 meters in real life (with an assault rifle), and if all you have is open sights forget about it. 500 meters is the longest range that an average rifleman is expected to hit a target at all. Forget about a head shot at that range. If you get a head shot at that range it WILL be luck. With these weapons it is rare to expect that kind of accuracy from the rifle or the rounds. Hitting targets at 500 meters yes, head shots at 500 meters NO. I'm not saying that it can't happen, it just won't be the norm. That is a DMs work, not a standard rifleman. And DMs don't use the same rifle that a standard rifleman does. At least not in the unit I was in. Standard assault rifles are NOT as accurate as Designated Marksmen rifles. Not even close!
Besides DM rifles use heavier bullets (77 grains) than rifleman (62 grains) use. Just because you can slap a scope on an M16 and make it look like a DM rifle doesn't make it one. And there is now way a worn out M16 is as accurate as an M14.

And even then he will be aiming center mass on the largest portion of the target he can see. If the head is all he can see, well then that's his target.

US troops are trained to aim center mass. Not waste time trying to hit something as small as the human head. Shots to the head are only talked about during CQB training. If a head shot is all I can get then that's what I'm going for, but I'm always looking to find the biggest part of the target I can get, which would be center mass of the upper torso area. To give me the greatest probability of a hit. That's way larger than a head shot attempt.

R

[Rico11b]

The saw has an effective range of 1000m IRL. Thats not just a number, thats some of the recorded hits in campaigns in Bosnia. The M-16 has a range of 500m. In PR, the M-16 can outrange the SAW. Give it a scope and the results will be reversed. The PKM and SAW are about 2x of their counterparts. Combat sights are required.

They may have scored a hit at that range, but it was luck. Also how many bullets did they spray to get that hit? Effective range for an area target on M249 is 800 meters. At 1000 meters the 62 grain bullet would barely have enough energy left to dispatch a large rabbit, let alone kill a man. Maybe they got a head shot into the eye of the target with open sights. Yeah right.

The M16 has a max "effective range" of 550 meters. Maximum effective range is the maximum range within which a weapon is effective against its intended target. Meaning at that range a rifleman has a 90% change of a first round hit, (just a hit, NOT a head shot) and, BIG AND the bullet has enough energy remaining to incapacitate a man sized target. At 1000 meters the bullet would only have about 156 Ft-lbs of energy remaining, and it's remaining velocity would be about 1063 fps. That's slower than the speed of sound (1110 fps). The remaining speed and energy would barely kill a large rabbit. A 22 caliber pistol has more speed and energy than that at 30 ft.
I'm not trying to be a butthead, sorry if this comes off that way. I mean no disrespect. I just want everyone to clearly understand how “ineffective” it is to try and engage targets at 1000 meters with a 5.56mm round. 7.62mm rounds are MUCH better suited for that sort of thing. Everyone seems to like numbers so I have given just a few.

[font=&quot]R[/font]

[pasfreak]

i've had problems..i was in a squad with 3 saws, so i had to leave and join another squad, and there was only one saw left in the game. i got it after having to wait like 4 minutes for no reason, and then i got tk'd.

[Sabre_tooth_tigger]

I remember speaking to a guy who'd done his swedish national service and the ordinary soldiers get an automatic sniper rifle?

[Rico11b]

They are easy as hell to shoot while standing, even unsupported - at least going by my bro.

Yes is does fire easily. It's recoil is somewhat less than the M16 cause it weighs more.

[Rico11b]

They are easy as hell to shoot while standing, even unsupported - at least going by my bro.

Duplicate post. Sorry