proposed weapon redistribution

[OriginaLoki]

i've been following the development of this mod, and like what i see so far

i posted this on the planetbattlefield forums, and thought i'd post it here as well... i realize that you're working on a FULL modification, and this doesn't really apply, but if you ever make serious revisions to the mini-mod, i'd love throw my two cents in

ok... so i've been thinking a lot about the different classes in BF2, and how their weapons could be swapped out and changed to reinforce their roles and encourage teamplay... i've come up with the following scenario:

-----------------------------------------------------------

1) remove pistols entirely

2) remove grenade launcher / hand grenades / mines / claymores / c4 -- (explosives removed from ALL classes and moved around as specified)

3) redistribute weapons as follows:

Assault - G36e + frag / smoke grenades (number of each grenade type undecided)

Support - MG36 + ammo

Medic - G36c + health / shock paddles

Engineer - G36c + wrench

Anti Tank - MP7 + rockets

Spec Ops - MP7 + mines / claymores / c4 (number of each explosive undecided)

Sniper - M24 + binoculars

-----------------------------------------------------------

the basic idea is

ASSAULT: becomes stronger as an offensive character (using frag and smoke grenades to prep an area for attack) while getting arguably the best overall rifle

SUPPORT: largely unchanged

MEDIC: largely unchanged

ENGINEER: while losing the mines, the engineer class GAINS a better weapon, all the while maintaining the useful wrench (the only way to disable the pesky spec ops traps, and perhaps with an increased repair speed)

ANTI TANK and SPEC OPS: if you're going to get to carry explosives, then you are going to carry a SUB machine gun, pretty straightforward

SPEC OPS: with this distribution, spec ops would be encouraged to "sneak" around more, and plant nasty surprises for the enemy team (number of each explosive type would be LOW, example - 2 mines / 2 claymores / 2 or 3 c4) the loss of a carbine means more sneaking, less assaulting...

SNIPER: remains largely unchanged -- the loss of a pistol makes close encounters MUCH more dangerous, best to avoid direct confrontation -- the inclusion of binoculars means that the sniper could be an even more effective team spotter (binocs would have better zoom/field of view than sniper rifle) and as the only character with a scope / zoom, they would be the only class suited to scouting...

-------------

I realize having the same weapons across all three teams might not be ideal, but i'm using the weapon choices more as a guideline, what KIND of weapon would go best with each character class...

[dawdler]

That's SF weaponry... The mod cant have that. And even if they could model their own weapons, such a layout wouldnt be very realistic, would it? Well, unless you want to be the German or Spanish army with those G36 rifles...

[OriginaLoki]

right, but the last paragraph states that it doesn't matter which kit each army went with (you could go with American weapons for Marines), as long as the kits followed suit...

example:

Assault = M16 + frag + smoke
Support = M249 + ammo
Medic = M4 + health/revive
Engineer = M4 + wrench
Anti Tank = MP5 + SRAW
Spec Ops = MP5 + mines/claymores/c4
Sniper = M24 + binoculars

...

The point being that the kits are changed so that each class has it's "role" reinforced, it doesn't matter which army you draw the weapons from

...

EDIT: and yes, in this and EVERY scenario i have put forth, the grenade launcher has been removed from each class... perhaps that is what PRMM dev's had in mind, perhaps not... I would just like to see a world WITHOUT GL's until they can be properly implemented (ie AA), and since this is a mini mod, i didn't know if minimum distance was something that could be implemented

[GRB]

Good idea.

Personally I think something a long these lines would be a little more feasable:

Assault = Knife + Pistol + M16A2 + M203 + frag + smoke
Support = Knife + Pistol + M249 + ammo
Medic = Knife + Pistol + M16 + health/revive
Engineer = Knife + Pistol + wrench + (access to enemy vehicles if possible)
Anti Tank = Knife + Pistol + SRAW + binoculars
Spec Ops = M4Carb. + SilencedPistol + mines/claymores/c4
Sniper = Knife + M24 + binoculars

Removing the Grenade launchers is a bad idea. They ARE used IRL. They have been made more realistic and are no where near as "whoreable" as they were. You remove the grenade launcher and you risk losing valuable players. Removing things without adding is generally a very bad idea.

The Pistol is a standard weapon almost EVERY soldier would never leave camp without. I think the only kit that doesn't need a pistol would be the sniper kit. Without the pistol, grenades and claymores snipers would be more inclined to stay away from close ranged combat. As it is now I tend to see a lot of snipers running around close ranges and doing some very unrealistic stuff with grenades, claymores, and the pistol.

[USAF-Marshall]

lol, why take pistols out?! Next time you run out of ammo and the only things you have left is your pistol and your knife, and you see someone 20 yards ahead of you shooting but you arent close to cover.... run at him with a knife.........

[Armand61685]

Just ask our military advisers as to what real life marines get in a squad. I think everyone agrees with me that the riflemen class should be made distinct from the grenadier class (m16 w/m203) and that the grenadier class should be limited.

And ya, of course riflemen and other normal troops don't get pistols.

[Cerberus]

Real Marine Squad:

1 Squad Leader w/ M16
3 Fireteam Leaders w/ M16
3 Riflemen w/ M16
3 Grenadiers w/ M203
3 Automatic Riflemen w/ M249

[Armand61685]

Real Marine Squad:

1 Squad Leader w/ M16
3 Fireteam Leaders w/ M16
3 Riflemen w/ M16
3 Grenadiers w/ M203
3 Automatic Riflemen w/ M249

If this is accurate, then we should go by this (in a condensed form for 6 man squads), end of discussion.

[Enforcer1975]

i've been following the development of this mod, and like what i see so far

i posted this on the planetbattlefield forums, and thought i'd post it here as well... i realize that you're working on a FULL modification, and this doesn't really apply, but if you ever make serious revisions to the mini-mod, i'd love throw my two cents in

ok... so i've been thinking a lot about the different classes in BF2, and how their weapons could be swapped out and changed to reinforce their roles and encourage teamplay... i've come up with the following scenario:

-----------------------------------------------------------

1) remove pistols entirely

2) remove grenade launcher / hand grenades / mines / claymores / c4 -- (explosives removed from ALL classes and moved around as specified)

3) redistribute weapons as follows:

Assault - G36e + frag / smoke grenades (number of each grenade type undecided)

Support - MG36 + ammo

Medic - G36c + health / shock paddles

Engineer - G36c + wrench

Anti Tank - MP7 + rockets

Spec Ops - MP7 + mines / claymores / c4 (number of each explosive undecided)

Sniper - M24 + binoculars

-----------------------------------------------------------

the basic idea is

ASSAULT: becomes stronger as an offensive character (using frag and smoke grenades to prep an area for attack) while getting arguably the best overall rifle

SUPPORT: largely unchanged

MEDIC: largely unchanged

ENGINEER: while losing the mines, the engineer class GAINS a better weapon, all the while maintaining the useful wrench (the only way to disable the pesky spec ops traps, and perhaps with an increased repair speed)

ANTI TANK and SPEC OPS: if you're going to get to carry explosives, then you are going to carry a SUB machine gun, pretty straightforward

SPEC OPS: with this distribution, spec ops would be encouraged to "sneak" around more, and plant nasty surprises for the enemy team (number of each explosive type would be LOW, example - 2 mines / 2 claymores / 2 or 3 c4) the loss of a carbine means more sneaking, less assaulting...

SNIPER: remains largely unchanged -- the loss of a pistol makes close encounters MUCH more dangerous, best to avoid direct confrontation -- the inclusion of binoculars means that the sniper could be an even more effective team spotter (binocs would have better zoom/field of view than sniper rifle) and as the only character with a scope / zoom, they would be the only class suited to scouting...

-------------

I realize having the same weapons across all three teams might not be ideal, but i'm using the weapon choices more as a guideline, what KIND of weapon would go best with each character class...

aha...and why do they use german weapons??

Actually only SF carry sidearms...the few marines carrying sidearms use there own.

Why not stick to the regular weapons instead? This is supposed to reflect the armies and not some pink'n'mix game. even if it sounds stupid to mod an action game to a "realistic" mod some things shouldn't be exagerated.

[OriginaLoki]

i see where you're all going with this...

really, the reason i wanted to change this setup around was to accomplish two things:

1) re-arrange explosives in such a way that it makes sense for each class (ie engineers wouldn't have mines, that would be spec ops, and not everyone needs grenades, i would say limit that to the assault class for the time being, that would encourage the ASSAULT class to LEAD THE ASSAULT )

2) remove pistol / claymore from sniper, replace with binoculars... with the UAV removed from game, a REAL spotter becomes MORE important than before, and with a pair of binoc's and a guille suit, the sniper would fill that roll well... the removal of the pistol was really just to suggest to the sniper to keep his distance )

Giving everyone M16 / M4 rather than MP5 would be fine, the main mission would still be accomplished

I appreciate your all taking time to read and consider these points.

-OriginaLoki

[Figisaacnewton]

Real Marine Squad:

1 Squad Leader w/ M16
3 Fireteam Leaders w/ M16
3 Riflemen w/ M16
3 Grenadiers w/ M203
3 Automatic Riflemen w/ M249

this should be the basis for our classes.

We need to figure out (as FH has) to make a class that you become when you are squad leader.

US

Squad Leader: M16a4

Choosable classes:

Rifleman:
1)M16a4, Grenades, Smoke, Flash maybe as well
2)M16a4, AT4
(Rifleman and fireteam leader have basically the same setup, so no need for 2 classes)
Auto Rifleman:
1)SAW, smoke nades, a few normal nades
2)M60e3, smoke nades, few normal nades
Grenadiers:
1)M16 w/203, Anti personnel and Smoke (both cover and signal if possible) launched nades
2)M16/203, Anti armor nades
Corpsman/Medic:
1)M4, frag nades
2)M16a4, smoke/flash nades
STA Sniper:
1)M40 or M14, no sidearm.
2)M4, spotter binoculars (laser designator as well if that ever pans out)
AT:
1)SMAW, pistol
2)M4, some ammo bag that only gives out SMAW ammo
Combat Engineer:
1)M4, C4
2)Shotgun, Both kinds of landmines

Maybe some pick up kit with mines... unless you can meld the AT mines in to the AT guy, and claymores to... someone else....

MEC:

SL: AK74

Rifleman:
1)AK74
2)Either AK74su or AK47, whichever is deemed more realistic
AutoRifleman:
1)RPK74
2)PKM
Grenadiers:
1)AK74 w/gp30 , AI and Cover nades
2)AK74/gp30, AT nades
Sniper:
1)SVD
2) Either a spotter class, or maybe a mosin nagant class or something
AT:
1)RPG (different kinds of rounds, AP, AA, etc)
2)AK74, ammo bag only for RPG
Medic:
1)AK74, frag
2)AK74 (maybe su), smoke, flash.
Combat Engineere:
1)AK74su , c4
2)Saiga, both types landmines

And pretty much all the PLA weapons need to be readressed with better intelligence... as we don't really know too well what the PLA actually uses.

[Eddie Baker]

Actually only SF carry sidearms...the few marines carrying sidearms use there own.

Not true. Military police, crew-served weapon gunners (medium machineguns, mortars, man-portable rocket launchers/recoilless rifles/ATGMs), armor crewmen, snipers and certain officers and NCOs carry sidearms as well as special operations forces. Privately owned weapons, depending on command stance at the time, may or may not be carried. More often than not, from what I understand, they are not permitted, and will eventually be confiscated.

1) re-arrange explosives in such a way that it makes sense for each class (ie engineers wouldn't have mines, that would be spec ops)

Combat engineers most certainly do carry anti-tank mines, as mine and countermine warfare is one of their specialties.

2) remove pistol / claymore from sniper, replace with binoculars... with the UAV removed from game, a REAL spotter becomes MORE important than before, and with a pair of binoc's and a guille suit, the sniper would fill that roll well... the removal of the pistol was really just to suggest to the sniper to keep his distance )

US snipers are issued sidearms for personal defense. They may keep their distance, but the enemy won't always do the same. The anti-tank class will NOT receive a rifle or SMG in PR, as this is not realistic.

Auto Rifleman:
1)SAW, smoke nades, a few normal nades
2)M60e3, smoke nades, few normal nades

The M60E3 proved to be a serious disappointment and is no longer used in front-line units. The M240B (Army)/M240G (Marines) medium machinegun (a variant of the FN MAG GPMG) has replaced it since the late 1990s.

And pretty much all the PLA weapons need to be readressed with better intelligence... as we don't really know too well what the PLA actually uses.

There are good internet resources on this already and we have looked into it. Getting enough references for models, though, is the tricky part.

[Figisaacnewton]

Eddie Baker']
The M60E3 proved to be a serious disappointment and is no longer used in front-line units. The M240B (Army)/M240G (Marines) medium machinegun (a variant of the FN MAG GPMG) has replaced it since the late 1990s.

There are good internet resources on this already and we have looked into it. Getting enough references for models, though, is the tricky part.

Re:m60e3

Oh. Ok, m240. thats what i meant.

Re LA

Ah. Ok, what are more realistic weapons then? Do the chinese still use the ak47 as thier main infantry weapon?

[Eddie Baker]

Re LA

Ah. Ok, what are more realistic weapons then? Do the chinese still use the ak47 as thier main infantry weapon?

Sort of, they use a locally produced variant of the AK (in 7.62 x 39mm) called the Type-81, a follow-on to their Type-56 licensed AK copies. The bullpup Type 95 5.8mm was fielded to certain rapid deployment units (PLA airborne, marine infantry and special operations) but has proven to be a disappointment and is being re-evaled.

[Figisaacnewton]

Ok so something like this for PLA

SL: Type81

Rifleman:
1)Type81, Grenades, Smoke, Flash maybe as well
2)Type81, Some kind of AT 1 use thing/ different config of grenades
Auto Rifleman:
1)Type81LMG, smoke nades, a few normal nades
2)Some other chinese support weapon (maybe the one they have in normal bf2), smoke nades, few normal nades
Grenadiers:
1)Type81 w/gp30, Anti personnel and Smoke (both cover and signal if possible) launched nades
2)Type 81 w/gp30 Anti armor nades
Corpsman/Medic:
1)Type81, frag nades
2)QBZ95, smoke/flash nades
STA Sniper:
1)Qtt44(or appropriate sniper rifle), no sidearm.
2)QBZ95, spotter binoculars (laser designator as well if that ever pans out)
AT:
1)RPG?, pistol
2)QBZ95, some ammo bag that only gives out SMAW ammo
Combat Engineer:
1)QBZ95, C4
2)Shotgun, Both kinds of landmines

also, maybe we could throw in the an94 akaban somewhere into the MEC

[Enforcer1975]

Why don't we all just play America's Army instead???

[Figisaacnewton]

No vehicles

AA is a good model for classes though.