7 Gates USED to be my Fav

Colfax · Post by **Colfax** » 2007-09-21 13:27

7 Gates used to be my favorite map but i played for the first time on v0.61 and was EXTREMELY disappointed.

First off i would like to say that any ORGANIZED British team can win this map hands down (even descent pubbers). It is easy to move Warriors safely around the map keeping them away from the HAT. Having the extra fire power easily can turn the tides. Also it easy for the British to move around the flanks of the PLA and get behind the fortress to the east.

That being said i believe the new flag order is ridiculous. This is not the kind of map that once a flag is dropped it can't be taken back. Its crazy.

The ONLY way PLA can get to outpost is if they spawn at River Fort and RUN IMMEDIATLEY to Outpost with full force with HAT or LAT to take out the Warriors that come (and British STILL can get there faster by a couple seconds). That being said you might as well take Outpost flag out. Because once British get it PLA cant get it back. 99.999% of the time they will get it first. Even in the tournament they were able to drop it before PELA full force got there. And the only reason PELA was able to win was b/c we took it back and held there.

I guess i am just curious on the reason of this change. The new cp addition was nice and a bleed on PLA after Court Yard is capped is nice too. I just don't think making the River Fort and Outpost unrecappable was good at all.

This will be a pubbers nightmare map. Because British will cap Outpost in the first minutes. Send warriors to blow River fort out of the water. Then the rest of the 2 hours will be spent as a losing battle for the PLA at the fortress. Seeing as British can enter it from every direction with the barbed wire/grappling hook glitch. Along with bring Warriors up and hide RP EVERYWHERE in the woods.

All and all your the devs i just want to know why? Did people complain? 7 Gates seem to play out fine in 0.5 and 0.6

WHY?

Also what do others think about this change?

Swe_Olsson · Post by **Swe_Olsson** » 2007-09-21 13:44

the game isnt supposed to be ended in less then 15 minutes mate, PLA has 2 capable flags, and then brittish has an uncappable.. and then theres the white.. plus the warriors has to go Around the whole map, unless they find a good way throught the woods.. I find this map very lovely even thought i dont play it much

Burlock · Post by **Burlock** » 2007-09-21 13:47

i agree the changes are much better i think

Colfax · Post by **Colfax** » 2007-09-21 13:49

Swe_Olsson wrote:the game isnt supposed to be ended in less then 15 minutes mate, PLA has 2 capable flags, and then brittish has an uncappable.. and then theres the white.. plus the warriors has to go Around the whole map, unless they find a good way throught the woods.. I find this map very lovely even thought i dont play it much

I have spent HOURS on this map training and doing intel (for the PR tournament). If you haven't played the map much how do you know this change doesn't affect it greatly?

Colfax · Post by **Colfax** » 2007-09-21 13:50

Burlock wrote:i agree the changes are much better i think

SARCASM

HAHA cuz your BCST and now BCST has a guarantee win in C6 on 7 Gates.

SARCASM

You know as well as I that British can cap outpost before PLA can even get there. After that its a losing battle. Only reason we won was because we attacked outpost and defended it without mercy.

Burlock · Post by **Burlock** » 2007-09-21 13:53

BSCT wont exist in C6

Threedroogs · Post by **Threedroogs** » 2007-09-21 14:00

i really like the changes to 7 gates. two H-ATs can keep the APCs from crossing the river fairly easily with a little coordination (and now they get one more target...heheh). adding the courtyard flag makes things much more fun, as we can now have full battles in the fortress without having to worry about people sneaking out and hitting the river fort flag.

i think the changes to 7 gates are my favorite changes to a map in .61.

Post by **Bob_Marley** » 2007-09-21 14:03

The way I see it the changes are intended to make the map be played the way its intended to. The Brits get mobility, the PLA gets very strong defensive positions.

As was the mobility the brits had counted for nothing as everything got sucked into fighting at outpost, where there is practically no room to manuver so the Brits lose their only advantage.

And Colfax, the same accusation that you pointed toward Burlock can be levelled just as easily at you.

Colfax · Post by **Colfax** » 2007-09-21 14:08

Threedroogs wrote:i really like the changes to 7 gates. two H-ATs can keep the APCs from crossing the river fairly easily with a little coordination (and now they get one more target...heheh). adding the courtyard flag makes things much more fun, as we can now have full battles in the fortress without having to worry about people sneaking out and hitting the river fort flag.

i think the changes to 7 gates are my favorite changes to a map in .61.

I agree there are some great battles in the fortress now but whats the point of the outpost flag? PlA has no chance of getting it. Should just take it out. And yes you can keep Warriors from crossing the river but they will wipe out RF in the first 20 mins and after that its quite easy to take at least one of the Fortress flags (and hold them) and then PLA has a bleed. And then game over.

[R-MOD]Bob_Marley wrote: And Colfax, the same accusation that you pointed toward Burlock can be levelled just as easily at you.

Except PLA has a chance if they can take outpost. Now PLA can't take it back its just a losing battle. Balance to not balanaced. We did intel both ways.

If this is truly a defense map just get rid of outpost. And have thr fortress and RF. Outpost is unattainable for PLA. How is there a point to the flag?

Burlock · Post by **Burlock** » 2007-09-21 14:09

[R-MOD]Bob_Marley wrote:The way I see it the changes are intended to make the map be played the way its intended to. The Brits get mobility, the PLA gets very strong defensive positions.

As was the mobility the brits had counted for nothing as everything got sucked into fighting at outpost, where there is practically no room to manuver so the Brits lose their only advantage.

And Colfax, the same accusation that you pointed toward Burlock can be levelled just as easily at you.

hehe exactly agree with what you said here 100% there is just no fun fighting around outpost for the entire time,

Threedroogs · Post by **Threedroogs** » 2007-09-21 14:17

you might have a point about the outpost flag. i guess it's there to give the Chinese enough time to set up defenses at river fort. i still think the chinese have the best chance of winning by defending the main fortress and the north and south river crossings (from the forest on the east side of the river, of course). you can still get support down on river fort from that location to help that defensive squad.

once river fort falls (and it will fall), the chinese have to dig in the fortress and fight til the end. the map used to be an easy win for the chinese every time (at least in my experience). now it seems a little more even. i have only played it 4-5 times on .61 and i need to play more, but i am liking it so far.

Colfax · Post by **Colfax** » 2007-09-21 14:22

Threedroogs wrote:you might have a point about the outpost flag. i guess it's there to give the Chinese enough time to set up defenses at river fort. i still think the chinese have the best chance of winning by defending the main fortress and the north and south river crossings (from the forest on the east side of the river, of course). you can still get support down on river fort from that location to help that defensive squad.

once river fort falls (and it will fall), the chinese have to dig in the fortress and fight til the end. the map used to be an easy win for the chinese every time (at least in my experience). now it seems a little more even. i have only played it 4-5 times on .61 and i need to play more, but i am liking it so far.

If i had StrkTm on my side i would agree with you but average pubbers just won't step up. On TG last night during PW night we fought hard as PLA but no matter how hard we tried and no matter how many Warriors we took out it was still a losing battle. Just to many places to hide RP outside in the woods.

Post by **Bob_Marley** » 2007-09-21 14:39

Colfax wrote:If i had StrkTm on my side i would agree with you but average pubbers just won't step up. On TG last night during PW night we fought hard as PLA but no matter how hard we tried and no matter how many Warriors we took out it was still a losing battle. Just to many places to hide RP outside in the woods.

And as was, the map was simply a meat grinder at Outpost that the brits are bound to loose because of the bleed. Just like Hotel on Karkhand.

The flag exists to give the PLA time to set up defenses at RF. And you seem to be over looking the fact that the PLA have 2 strong defensive positions and very clear fields of fire from them.

The point of the map, as far as I can see, is for the PLA to force the Brits to waste their tickets throwing troops at the PLA positions while the Brits must box clever and out smart them.

Farks · Post by **Farks** » 2007-09-21 14:40

Colfax wrote: 7 Gates seem to play out fine in 0.5 and 0.6

It wasnt in 0.5.

=WFL= Sgt Bilko · Post by **=WFL= Sgt Bilko** » 2007-09-21 14:47

Eeh, what has changed in v0.61?

Maybe I remember wrong but was there a bleed for PLA if only fortress left? Otherwise I see little point as PLA not digging in at fortress for the whole round. Sure send a squad forward for random gerilla attacks but except for that ... waste of personel

Is there now a bleed if PLA only have the fortress?

Colfax · Post by **Colfax** » 2007-09-21 14:59

[R-MOD]Bob_Marley wrote:And as was, the map was simply a meat grinder at Outpost that the brits are bound to loose because of the bleed. Just like Hotel on Karkhand.

The flag exists to give the PLA time to set up defenses at RF. And you seem to be over looking the fact that the PLA have 2 strong defensive positions and very clear fields of fire from them.

The point of the map, as far as I can see, is for the PLA to force the Brits to waste their tickets throwing troops at the PLA positions while the Brits must box clever and out smart them.

I never played in a pub where Outpost was a meet grinder. More like 20 min games where OP and RF was dropped and another squad was already inside temple waiting to cap. Then game over. That was 0.5 and 0.6

RF = River Fort and OP = Outpost

There is still no time to set up at RF only an idiot would send two warriors two OP to cap a flag that can't be re capped by the enemy.

You send one to OP with a 6 man squad and one to RF. With the rest of the team. Any PLA that by chance made it there in time. Which is only possible if you run straight from RF IMMEDIATLY at round start(how likely in a pub?). Will get wiped out by the Warrior and squad. And MAYBE an HAT made it to OP too but thats HIGHLY unlikely. I mean we did extensive timing on OP and British can get there faster then PLA hand down.

So while thats happening at OP the other Warrior and rest of the team is attacking RF. The warrior takes out all the external towers and then is able to kill any PLA on the lower lvl. British troops move in secure lower while warrior pelts the upper tower with HEAT. By this time British is capping Rf b/c the PLA forces are so low. This could all be done with in 20 mins of the game start. A good team could do it in less then 10 mins. So now we have a fortress meat grinder. Instead of a Outpost meat grinder. Things would be made better if the British couldn't grappling hook under the barbed wire anywhere on the fortress but they can and not be hurt at all. The fortress isn't a fortress really its just a couple walls on a elevated position that can be attacked from all sides. With a dense forest to drop RPs. You don't even need warriors really at this point just hide as spawn point. Once British take either flag the bleed starts.

Game over. (this is a pretty simple strat)

Yes it will be an awesome battle at the temple but waht about all those awesome battle on the west bank of the river. Going for RF or taking back OP those days are gone now.

Colfax · Post by **Colfax** » 2007-09-21 15:01

=WFL= Sgt Bilko wrote:Eeh, what has changed in v0.61?

Maybe I remember wrong but was there a bleed for PLA if only fortress left? Otherwise I see little point as PLA not digging in at fortress for the whole round. Sure send a squad forward for random gerilla attacks but except for that ... waste of personel

Is there now a bleed if PLA only have the fortress?

Bleed starts when court yard or citadel drops. Just one need to drop for a bleed.

Before v0.61 pla could take river fort (RF) and oupost (OP) back now you cant.

So like you said might as well get rid of the flags b/c diggin in at the fortress is the most logical thing.

Threedroogs · Post by **Threedroogs** » 2007-09-21 15:08

i would avoid the whole "rush to outpost" strategy as PLA altogether. i would be pissed if someone grabbed the H-AT and headed that direction. that's a recipe for disaster. the H-ATs have to cover the river fort from the east side, across the river. they can prevent any APC from getting anywher NEAR the river fort, and that's their main job.

rushing the outpost is a bad idea because you're going to lose. you're going to take on the full brunt of the APCs at that location. after you get wiped out the team is completely unprepared for defense. the PLA should dig in for defense immediately.

Colfax · Post by **Colfax** » 2007-09-21 15:17

I agree you should dig in. Its just the fortress is hard to defend with the barbed wire/grap hook glitch. It might as well be a wall less fortress with no barbed wire. B/c the barbed wire is only a disadvantage for the PLA not the British.

Post by **Outlawz7** » 2007-09-21 15:17

I think, only Outpost should not be recapped.

And to correct the OP; 7 Gates was not in 0.5, you probably meant 0.6 beta.