Ballistics

[daddog]

Is distance accounted for or do you always just put the cross hairs on your target?

I ask because last week I was shooting at two guys running across a bridge while I was laying down on the opposite end. Was not a long bridge and they were easy to hit. So I thought. I fired three times at each with no effect. Moments later someone got them both. Other times I have hit someone at 3 times that distance when I put the iron sight right on them.

Should we account for distance. If so what are our sights sighted for? 100 yards? 200 yards? 300 yards? Does it change with the weapons?

Thanks in advance.

[nedlands1]

I am fairly sure that all the rifles are zeroed to 0m. That is that the round will hit a point blank target at the tip of the iron sight or the center of the crosshair. I myself have done a bit of empirical testing, of all the scoped weapons, on Kashan Dessert. As it turns out, the velocities of each weapon seem to be tweaked so that the drop coincides with a marker on the scope. Below is the results of my testing.

Assault/Battle Rifles

G3A3 Scoped
-Bottom of triangle is for a range of 400m

QBZ-95 Scoped
-Bottom of cross is for 700m

L85A2 Scoped
-A third down the the small triangle is for 500m
-Extrapolation: The bottom of the small triangle is for 1.5 km

DMR's

M14
-Halfway between the center and the first lower notch is for 500m
-Extrapolation: Every notch is a 1000m increment starting at 1000m for the first one

SVD
-Underneath the the first chevron is for 400m /\ -
-Extrapolation: the bottom of the chevron is for 2000m /\ _

QBU-88
-A third from the center to the first notch is for 400m
-Extrapolation: First notch is for 1.2km

L86A2 LSW
-Same as the L85A2

Sniper Rifles

M82A1 (double zoomed)
-Halfway down the first bar is for 600m
-Extrapolation: Bottom of the first bar is for 1.2km
-Extrapolation: Next notch is for 1.5km
-Extrapolation: Following notch is for 1.9km
etc

M40A3 (double zoomed)
-In between the center and the first notch is for 500m
-Extrapolation: First notch is for 1000m

M95 (double zoomed)
-In between the center and the first notch is for 500m
-Extrapolation: First notch is for 1km
-Extrapolation: Second notch is for 1.6km
-Extrapolation: Third notch is for 2.2km

Notes: On most normal maps the view distance is very short. On Kashan it is about 1km. The view distance for the dust effects is even shorter (~ 600m on Kashan). This means that the ranges above ~600m can't be tested quite so easily(unless the weapon has tracer rounds). Instead, in these tests, an intermediate value has been taken and extrapolated for the longer ranges. This is easily done since the BF2 engine has linear bullet drop. So if a round falls a meter at 500m then it will drop two meters at 1km. This fact also means that you can interpolate values in your head quickly. For instance if your target is at 300m and you are using a scoped G3A3 then you can quickly figure out that you need to aim 3/4 of the way down on the small triangle (as the bottom of the triangle is for a range of 400m). Similarly you can extrapolate that for a range of 500m you need to aim an extra quarter of a triangle, from the base of that triangle, above the target.

[pasfreak]

thx man.
I was trying to snipe guys out on the airfield with the m14, was trying all sorts of things from halfway down to right on the center, and couldn't seem to hit them.

the only problem is, how the heck are you supposed to judge distance in this game?
you have the distance and how far down you have to aim, but when you put a marker on a guy's head, how do you know how far away he is and how to hit him right>

[Jaymz]

I am fairly sure that all the rifles are zeroed to 0m. That is that the round will hit a point blank target at the tip of the iron sight or the center of the crosshair. I myself have done a bit of empirical testing, of all the scoped weapons, on Kashan Dessert. As it turns out, the velocities of each weapon seem to be tweaked so that the drop coincides with a marker on the scope. Below is the results of my testing.

Assault/Battle Rifles

G3A3 Scoped
-Bottom of triangle is for a range of 400m

QBZ-95 Scoped
-Bottom of cross is for 700m

L85A2 Scoped
-A third down the the small triangle is for 500m
-Extrapolation: The bottom of the small triangle is for 1.5 km

DMR's

M14
-Halfway between the center and the first lower notch is for 500m
-Extrapolation: Every notch is a 1000m increment starting at 1000m for the first one

SVD
-Underneath the the first chevron is for 400m /\ -
-Extrapolation: the bottom of the chevron is for 2000m /\ _

QBU-88
-A third from the center to the first notch is for 400m
-Extrapolation: First notch is for 1.2km

L86A2 LSW
-Same as the L85A2

Sniper Rifles

M82A1 (double zoomed)
-Halfway down the first bar is for 600m
-Extrapolation: Bottom of the first bar is for 1.2km
-Extrapolation: Next notch is for 1.5km
-Extrapolation: Following notch is for 1.9km
etc

M40A3 (double zoomed)
-In between the center and the first notch is for 500m
-Extrapolation: First notch is for 1000m

M95 (double zoomed)
-In between the center and the first notch is for 500m
-Extrapolation: First notch is for 1km
-Extrapolation: Second notch is for 1.6km
-Extrapolation: Third notch is for 2.2km

Notes: On most normal maps the view distance is very short. On Kashan it is about 1km. The view distance for the dust effects is even shorter (~ 600m on Kashan). This means that the ranges above ~600m can't be tested quite so easily(unless the weapon has tracer rounds). Instead, in these tests, an intermediate value has been taken and extrapolated for the longer ranges. This is easily done since the BF2 engine has linear bullet drop. So if a round falls a meter at 500m then it will drop two meters at 1km. This fact also means that you can interpolate values in your head quickly. For instance if your target is at 300m and you are using a scoped G3A3 then you can quickly figure out that you need to aim 3/4 of the way down on the small triangle (as the bottom of the triangle is for a range of 400m). Similarly you can extrapolate that for a range of 500m you need to aim an extra quarter of a triangle, from the base of that triangle, above the target.

Woooooow. That's a really impressive post! Alas, I hate to break it to you but the bullet drop is subject to change for 0.7. Technically there is no such thing as zeroing in the BF2 engine due to linear bullet travel path. Meaning all we can do is try tweak the linear path to make the weapon have the effective range it would have in real life.

The way we did it was far more realistic than vBF2 but it was made headshot accurate up until the zero point for each weapon. What I...emm we, should have done was made it accurate up until the zero point but within the arc of a mansize target. This may happen with 0.7 but there are also other factors being cooked up to bring a more realistic and "human" feel of accuracy

Either way, we'll keep pushing the limits on just how realistic BF2 ballistics and weapon handling can be.

[-=TB=-Schrotti]

Woooooow. That's a really impressive post! Alas, I hate to break it to you but the bullet drop is subject to change for 0.7. Technically there is no such thing as zeroing in the BF2 engine due to linear bullet travel path. Meaning all we can do is try tweak the linear path to make the weapon have the effective range it would have in real life.

The way we did it was far more realistic than vBF2 but it was made headshot accurate up until the zero point for each weapon. What I...emm we, should have done was made it accurate up until the zero point but within the arc of a mansize target. This may happen with 0.7 but there are also other factors being cooked up to bring a more realistic and "human" feel of accuracy

Either way, we'll keep pushing the limits on just how realistic BF2 ballistics and weapon handling can be.

I hope you fix the air gun (m16) if air gun then low recoil and not the same we g3. At the moment is this bull ....

[Expendable Grunt]

How does the ballistic model for ArmA stand up for those who really got into calculating it?

[nedlands1]

Woooooow. That's a really impressive post! Alas, I hate to break it to you but the bullet drop is subject to change for 0.7. Technically there is no such thing as zeroing in the BF2 engine due to linear bullet travel path. Meaning all we can do is try tweak the linear path to make the weapon have the effective range it would have in real life.

The way we did it was far more realistic than vBF2 but it was made headshot accurate up until the zero point for each weapon. What I...emm we, should have done was made it accurate up until the zero point but within the arc of a mansize target. This may happen with 0.7 but there are also other factors being cooked up to bring a more realistic and "human" feel of accuracy

Either way, we'll keep pushing the limits on just how realistic BF2 ballistics and weapon handling can be.

So what you are trying to achieve is a 100% hit ratio on a target the width of a human body at each weapon's maximum effective range? In terms of zeroing each weapon to a particular range, couldn't you just move the sight picture up a fraction?

[Jaymz]

So what you are trying to achieve is a 100% hit ratio on a target the width of a human body at each weapon's maximum effective range? In terms of zeroing each weapon to a particular range, couldn't you just move the sight picture up a fraction?

The bullet drop would still be linear and that just can't happen because we would have to move EA sights up as well which we can't do.

[Waaah_Wah]

No one would even notice...

[OkitaMakoto]

How does the ballistic model for ArmA stand up for those who really got into calculating it?

Theres a weapons ballistics calculation mod for ArmA in which a few scoped weapons have been tweaked from the original ArmA Mil dot (i think?) settings. When zoomed in, you get 2 numbers on the top left of screen which are your elevation and windage (side to side, up and down, sorry, dont know specific terms ) but from there, you can input the correct range and such and then get a direct hit in the middle of your crosshairs if sighted correctly.

Its really cool. Guy at 1,000 meters? Zero the rifle to 1,000 meters and aim at his head!

http://www.flashpoint1985.com/cgi-bin/i ... 70;t=65706

although from what I read, it doesnt support the mil dots that ArmA comes with, so I guess that means you have to zero your rifle to that range and that only means its accurate to that range (ie. you cant then go down one notch to get say...900meters from the zeroed 1000) at least thats how i understand it....? i could be terribly wrong.

Anyway, ArmA is amazing in that when firing a sniper rifle, the round first travels up and then arcs back down to its zeroed range When I first saw the tracers I was totally amazed!

[Jaymz]

Anyway, ArmA is amazing in that when firing a sniper rifle, the round first travels up and then arcs back down to its zeroed range When I first saw the tracers I was totally amazed!

yeah but the zoom levels are way off meaning that all the information on optics is still not what there using for ballistic calculation.

[Expendable Grunt]

Hm. I'm considering getting this scope pack that adds more "realistic" scope stuff into the game. I don't snipe much, normally leading or being a rifleman of some kind at the moment, despite having qualified as expert in their little training thing.

[Jaymz]

Hm. I'm considering getting this scope pack that adds more "realistic" scope stuff into the game. I don't snipe much, normally leading or being a rifleman of some kind at the moment, despite having qualified as expert in their little training thing.

Since Arma models their optics relative to human eye resolution values all the display info on optics is pretty damn useless. Ironsights have 4x zoom on them and the ACOGs (which should be 3.5x) are more like 16x. The idea is to portray the resolution you'd see in real life but by doing that they make CQB absolutely horrible.

[ReadMenace]

Since Arma models their optics relative to human eye resolution values all the display info on optics is pretty damn useless. Ironsights have 4x zoom on them and the ACOGs (which should be 3.5x) are more like 16x. The idea is to portray the resolution you'd see in real life but by doing that they make CQB absolutely horrible.

The ACOG in ArmA is attrocious, IMHO.

-REad

[OkitaMakoto]

I didnt say it was perfect. Even in the mod the guy made, the scope ticks dont mean a thing. Which, is pretty disappointing. Maybe in a future release of the mod it will be fixed.

As for the constant zoom on the soldiers and way-off zoom levels- One thing I do a lot is double tap the numpads "-" key and it stays zoomed back some more. Gives you much more situational awareness. The only problem is when you go to your iron sights, then zoom in, it zooms in ALL the way to the normal zoomed in mode, which makes it really nauseating going from zoomed way out to zoomed WAY in.

Isnt there a mod out there that uses the extra zoomed out mode for nomral mode, then when you "focus" with iron sights it goes to the level of zoom that is the ArmA standard non-zoomed level?


I agree though, the ACOG is a freaking sniper. So are the iron sights almost! Thats crazy...

But that sniper range mod is pretty cool if only for the fact that you can actively zero your rifle on the fly. (which was why i initially brought it up to show the dif between bf2 engine and ArmAs... even if ArmA lags like a mofo)

IMO, BIS should have just said screw if if the resolution isnt exact, lets just focus on having appropriate everything... although, that would have its drawbacks too, correct? But it does get tiring when every gun is near the likes of a sniper rifle... the red dot on the m4 is also ridiculous. Focus, and you can make terribly long shots...

[Expendable Grunt]

Ah so the fact that I can "zoom" in when I'm in iron sight mode is supposed to represent something?

[OkitaMakoto]

yeah. The way i understand it is that in order to see enough of the battlefield for situational awareness, it needed to be zoomed out enough for that, but for firing, objects were too small to see clearly, and therefor it would be too hard to aim.

To do this, they zoomed in the aim view, I guess while still keeping things in somewhat of a relationship between sights and objects (i think) so that it is actually zoomed in more in order to give you the clarity of real life.

I think theres another reason for it, which might be the more important reason...

Anyway, please feel free to correct me. I doubt I fully understand it. But in a nutshell, I think its in order to give you real life clarity that you would have at that certain distance and such...

[Jaymz]

Ah so the fact that I can "zoom" in when I'm in iron sight mode is supposed to represent something?

Yes. The resolution that the 4x image would be for a human eye. The ACOG is about 16x which is really silly in my opinion. Much better to just force the player to squint at their monitor to get those really far shots.

[OkitaMakoto]

Much better to just force the player to squint at their monitor to get those really far shots.

QFT.

I *THINK* the truView (true View?) mod has the zooms/normal view zoom changed to be more realistic. Good for a coop or SP round, but im sure for versus MP it takes away a certain edge

http://www.flashpoint1985.com/cgi-bin/i ... 70;t=68689

TrueFov-Accurate v1.0
-------------------
- New Responsive, Smooth, & Consistent FOV / Zoom Settings For Your Virtual Eye.
- Increased eye "zoom" to match as close to real-life size on a 19" monitor as possible (Actually tested).
- Increased "zoom out" for more peripheral vision / quick scanning.
- (FIXED) the bug that was in the original game as well (Zoom/Ironsight problem when switching ROF>grenade>ROF).


TrueFov-Original v1.0
-------------------
- New Responsive, Smooth, & Consistent FOV / Zoom Settings For Your Virtual Eye.
- Same Fov settings that were in the original TrueView.
- (FIXED) the bug that was in the original game as well (Zoom/Ironsight problem when switching ROF>grenade>ROF).

Ill give this mod a try tomorrow and see if its really what Im saying it is... apparently there are two versions? True View original and True View Accurate? not totally sure of the difference... Will test tomorrow... unles someone beats me to it...

[Expendable Grunt]

Perhaps OpReal server should use that mod eh?