suppression effects.

gazzthompson · Post by **gazzthompson** » 2007-12-26 15:18

exactly, and that was 1 round, when u fire a MG that effect stays so they cant return effective fire, just like IRL but with a different way of doing it. instead of scaring them into not being able to return effective fire, make it so they cant return effective fire!

Post by **77SiCaRiO77** » 2007-12-26 15:21

flik wrote: just i havn't played FH2 before.

you should

and yea , those are the effects , and here are the effect in PR

flik · Post by **flik** » 2007-12-26 15:25

77SiCaRiO77 wrote:you should

and yea , those are the effects , and here are the effect in PR

...

sorry it just hit me what it'd be like, with those effects, and no minimap.

espiecally as a civilian, i mean, where the hell would you go?! imersive or what?

Flik

Post by **bosco_** » 2007-12-26 15:28

77SiCaRiO77 wrote:you should

and yea , those are the effects , and here are the effect in PR

*want*

zangoo · Post by **zangoo** » 2007-12-26 16:12

77SiCaRiO77 wrote:you should

and yea , those are the effects , and here are the effect in PR

that would solve so many problems in pr, i think it would make firefights 10x more realistic.

gazzthompson · Post by **gazzthompson** » 2007-12-26 17:14

BloodBane611 wrote:Until it crashes? I don't think I like it enough to do that....

The fact that suppression isn't very effective definitely contributes to the arcady-ness. I think that the best way to make suppression work is to increase the effectiveness of suppressive weapons, thereby making it more likely that players who try and pop up under suppressive fire will be killed, and not make that mistake again.

thats not suppressive fire then, thats accurate kill shots, or what ever the military term is, if ur going for kill shots u might aswell just use a scope. which would decrease the length of the firefight and make the game more arcade.

also im going to play a round with the FH2 effects on, see how well i get suppressed. how do i do it again ? just alt f4 out of the game then start PR up ?

[T]Terranova7 · Post by **[T]Terranova7** » 2007-12-26 18:34

BloodBane611 wrote:Until it crashes? I don't think I like it enough to do that....

The fact that suppression isn't very effective definitely contributes to the arcady-ness. I think that the best way to make suppression work is to increase the effectiveness of suppressive weapons, thereby making it more likely that players who try and pop up under suppressive fire will be killed, and not make that mistake again.

You simply can't simulate that ingame, as the fear of death is virtually non-existent in games. Suppression fire is deadly as it is, it's just that all the enemy player needs is about a second or two to take that laser accurate pop shot on your head.

The FH2 suppression effects are highly needed, as it would serve as the ultimate deterrent during intense firefights. No more simple standoffs with jack-in-the-box rifleman, we might actually see players constantly maneuvering to acquire a better firing position. Players would actually take cover, disperse, fall back, flank etc. Not just get shot at, turn around and attempt to kill the guy shooting you.

gazzthompson · Post by **gazzthompson** » 2007-12-26 18:38

Terranova wrote:You simply can't simulate that ingame, as the fear of death is virtually non-existent in games. Suppression fire is deadly as it is, it's just that all the enemy player needs is about a second or two to take that laser accurate pop shot on your head.

The FH2 suppression effects are highly needed, as it would serve as the ultimate deterrent during intense firefights. No more simple standoffs with jack-in-the-box rifleman, we might actually see players constantly maneuvering to acquire a better firing position. Players would actually take cover, disperse, fall back, flank etc. Not just get shot at, turn around and attempt to kill the guy shooting you.

thank you !!!! in PR if some one is suppressed enough not to be able to see then they will HAVE to manoeuvre or be out manoeuvred themselfs. it will make flanking so much more of a asset.

also, if im correct, military doctrine would show that if ur "suppressive" fire is accurate enough to kill some 1 poping there head up, well then its not suppressive fire.

[T]Terranova7 · Post by **[T]Terranova7** » 2007-12-26 18:47

gazzthompson wrote: also, if im correct, military doctrine would show that if ur "suppressive" fire is accurate enough to kill some 1 poping there head up, well then its not suppressive fire.

You're correct, just took these quotes from wiki.

Suppressive fire (also known as covering fire) is a term used in military science for firing weapons at or in the direction of enemy forces with the primary goal of reducing their ability to defend themselves or return fire, by forcing them to remain under cover.

Suppressive fire differs from lethal fire (i.e. shoot-to-kill) in that its primary objective is to get the enemy to "keep their heads down" and thus reduce their ability to move, shoot, or observe their surroundings. While soldiers may be injured or killed by suppressive fire, this is not its main purpose.

Whole article - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suppression_fire

gazzthompson · Post by **gazzthompson** » 2007-12-26 19:11

wiki wrote:"Pinned down" is a common military term for a unit that is currently being suppressed by enemy fire. A suppressed unit has lost its ability to move, lost all or most of its ability to return fire, and lost much of its ability to gather real-time intelligence on the enemy position, as it is concerned with staying under cover.

the highlighted is what FH2 or similar effects deliver in game which can then mean;

wiki wrote:Suppression is a key tactical goal utilized in most small unit tactics and will afford the attacking (or suppressing) unit with greater security of movement, intelligence, and tactical flexibility. Often, a suppressed unit will lose organizational efficiency and morale if kept in that state for an extended period of time.

that's what PR battles should be like!!^^^^^ not insta heashots and suppressive fire that dosnt do anything!!!

any DEV response ?

Rambo Hunter · Post by **Rambo Hunter** » 2007-12-26 19:15

gazzthompson wrote:also im going to play a round with the FH2 effects on, see how well i get suppressed. how do i do it again ? just alt f4 out of the game then start PR up ?

Open up FH2, then select PR from the 'community' tab like vBF2
Then you should have the same shaders in your game

markonymous · Post by **markonymous** » 2007-12-26 20:31

if that system is added it will be one of the biggest if not the biggest gameplay change. You can actually put down covering fire.

Soulja · Post by **Soulja** » 2007-12-26 20:39

Yea PR needs a lot better suppression. The biggest problem with PR is the ability for someone to be shooting at you with a SAW and you can still stand up and shoot accurately. Definitely need FH2 style suppression.

VipersGhost · Post by **VipersGhost** » 2007-12-26 22:51

Well there aren't going to be insta-headshots anymore. Changing stances unsettles your "aiming" doesn't it? I'm not sure on this but if I'm right then suppression fire might actually work now with the new rifle mechanics. No more proning for insta-accuracy etc. So now you can pop up and return fire but you sure aren't going to hit much and might be getting killed yourself...thus giving the guy on the bad side of suppression no advantages. 0.7 is about to be out, lets wait and see what it looks like. I wasn't to fond of the FH2 effects, they seem like way to much. Sure you get the desired effect maybe but it didn't seem right.

gazzthompson · Post by **gazzthompson** » 2007-12-26 22:57

VipersGhost wrote:Well there aren't going to be insta-headshots anymore. Changing stances unsettles your "aiming" doesn't it? I'm not sure on this but if I'm right then suppression fire might actually work now with the new rifle mechanics. No more proning for insta-accuracy etc. So now you can pop up and return fire but you sure aren't going to hit much and might be getting killed yourself...thus giving the guy on the bad side of suppression no advantages. 0.7 is about to be out, lets wait and see what it looks like. I wasn't to fond of the FH2 effects, they seem like way to much. Sure you get the desired effect maybe but it didn't seem right.

if u r killing a guy then its not suppressive fire. plus, he shouldn't be poping up in the first place.

Spaz · Post by **Spaz** » 2007-12-26 23:09

I agree with Gazz! Giving PR a new suppression effect would make suppressiv fire work.

scandhi · Post by **scandhi** » 2007-12-27 01:22

Wount the new rifle mechanics give this suppression effect, when you cant' just stand up adn return accurate fire. If you get MG fire your way, why pop up, wait 1,8 sec to squiz the trigger and getting your body pierced whilst doing so?

[T]Terranova7 · Post by **[T]Terranova7** » 2007-12-27 05:20

scandhi wrote:Wount the new rifle mechanics give this suppression effect, when you cant' just stand up adn return accurate fire. If you get MG fire your way, why pop up, wait 1,8 sec to squiz the trigger and getting your body pierced whilst doing so?

That's the whole point though, the player shouldn't be given a chance to pop his/her head around the corner to take those potshots in the first place. And no matter how the rifle mechanics are changed, a player attempting to put down suppression fire is going to be a lot more inaccurate than a player who will take precise, single round shots. Combined with the non-existent fear of death firefights become standoffs as opposed to fire and maneuvering. Having something similar to FH2 suppression effects is the ultimate solution, there is no substitute.

Sadist_Cain · Post by **Sadist_Cain** » 2007-12-27 06:33

Terranova wrote:Having something similar to FH2 suppression effects is the ultimate solution, there is no substitute.

Hell yes + 1

can't stand the fact that when your shooting at someone and you get the suppression blurriness you can still see ok to take a shot if you try. and with aim deviation working against suppression gunners as they have to fire their bursts of rounds, the rifle man being "suppressed" will still be able to see who's suppressing him and just wait for the gap in his bursts.
I know the devs have tried to make the support gun more effective for 0.7 but I just cant see how it can happen while I can still function fine while I've got 50 cal bullets zinging over my head. It dosn't matter if he needs to stabilize his gun for a second or so, as long as he can still see and feel "comfy" where he is, then he isnt being suppressed.

FH2 suppression makes you want to lie down and hide (suppression's job) whilest it sounds like the 0.7 aim deviation will just make it harder for support gunners to aim while a rifleman with barely blurred vision spots the support and shoots