Weapon Damage and Recoil

[nedlands1]

Bloodbane, don't forget the "poor body armor" that the militia use as it has a different modifier then the conventional one. Have a look in the material editor for it.

[Jaymz]

@ people wanting superdydooper 7.62x51 damage.

It drops people in two shots...considering an interceptor plate can genreally take quite a few of them IRL. Why give it more damage?

[VipersGhost]

@ people wanting superdydooper 7.62x51 damage.

It drops people in two shots...considering an interceptor plate can genreally take quite a few of them IRL. Why give it more damage?

x2...it's fine. Now the thing is that the 7.62x51 rnd has a lot of stopping power. We should start thinking about the Bullet-hit effect on someone. So if your first hit is scored to the chest/vest then the victim looses all stamina or something. Other hits should have this as well but to a less extent to model their "stopping power". I dunno is just random ideas...but no the damage is fine.

[Jonathan_Archer_nx01]

i wish the G3 wasnt so inaccurate in this game that it doesnt work at long range like intended to...

Many people think so. G3 is less accurate than QBZ, M16 and L85 by 50%. This wasn't a problem before when all rifles were accurate. Recoil is not a problem though.

Lessons to take away:
With the G3, unlike the other rifles, it is not necessary to go for the headshot. 2 bodyshots can be speedy and still kill your target. Also, they will start bleeding after you put one round into them, and your rounds hit at full value out to 400 meters, whereas the rest of the rifles lose damage above 200. With the G3 range is your friend, and carefully aimed distance shots from this rifle will give you the upper hand over the higher controllable rate of fire the smaller caliber US and GB weapons have. At this point it is imperative that you avoid close combat if possible. Grenades should be used to clear buildings, and smoking an enemy position before getting in close will help you gain the advantage. Use short bursts and control your sight picture when scoped in, or use short controlled bursts from the hip. Using this weapon in CQB takes some skill, this is one of the only weapons ingame that needs a serious amount of practice to be competent with.

You forgot to mention one important fact - accuracy. I just read on different forums where a clan tested accuracy of every rifle up to 300 metres. Even though G3 keeps damage for longer, it lacks accuracy to counter and M16, L85 at long distances. It is most effective up to 100 meters. This problem would disapear if all of them were made a tad more accurate and you would be able to pick headshot over hundreds of meters with M16 as Marines IRL.

[Death_dx]

GeZe;581270']If we take M16 damage values [(1712 J): 36] as a base, the rest of the damage values should be (calculated by energy)

G3 (3352 J): 71 - currant damage is 55
QBZ-95 (1773 J): 37 - currant damage is 39
AK-47: (2016 J): 42 - currant damage is 42

As you see, AK-47 damage is exactly the same as currant, no complaints. QBZ-95 damage should be slightly lower. But the big thing is G3 damage, it is seriously underpowered. It now has realistic recoil, so I see no problems upping damage to more realistic levels.

I think there needs to be more definition on what type of body armour everyone is wearing before immediately upping the damage to the bleeding to death in 10 seconds level.

For example: Interceptor body armor

Two small-arms protective inserts may also be added to the front and back of the vest, with each plate designed to stop up to three hits from 7.62×51 NATO

Frankly I don't think any of the rifles should cause you to go into the bleeding zone immediately (unless FDs are changed to stop bleeding on one use anyway).

[Deadfast]

Frankly I don't think any of the rifles should cause you to go into the bleeding zone immediately (unless FDs are changed to stop bleeding on one use anyway).

Will you walk away after getting shot by 7.56 ? I don't think so. The current state is as close to reality as you can get it while still maintaining a certain level of entertainment. I'm happy I can at least make the ******* bleeding before he bursts me with his M16...

[BloodBane611]

It drops people in two shots...considering an interceptor plate can genreally take quite a few of them IRL. Why give it more damage?

It doesn't have to have more damage, but right now it is facing weapons that are slightly inferior at range and totally superior in CQB, while being placed on maps like EJOD where the majority of the flags are in a city.

Most of the time EJOD turns into the MEC standing on the hills sniping the marines in the city now, because people know they cannot take on the M16 up close. I don't think that we must increase the damage, but if the recoil is going to be so high it needs a balance. If the recoil is going to be reduced, so be it.

Even though G3 keeps damage for longer, it lacks accuracy to counter and M16, L85 at long distances.

I have been able to hit marines on EJOD coming out of their main from the last flag above it. That's like 300, 400 meters minimum. Even with the iron sights I was able to hit targets at 200 meters. If you give the G3 time to settle then it becomes usable in my experience.

[Death_dx]

Will you walk away after getting shot by 7.56 ? I don't think so. The current state is as close to reality as you can get it while still maintaining a certain level of entertainment. I'm happy I can at least make the ******* bleeding before he bursts me with his M16...

If any round goes through your body armour you're not likely to walk away from it. Bleeding out would indicate the round went through the body armour, and since it's (presumably) not possible to add a randomity factor to the damage to simulate a round not puncturing the body armour and doing nearly zero damage, the next best way is to make it so that the damage for each round is based on the probability of the round to penetrate the body armour that's being used.

Ex If the USMC body armour has a 33% chance of being penetrated by a G3 round, then the G3's damage should be set so that it requires 3 shots to kill ie anywhere from 33 to 49 without adjusting for bleeding. Bottomline is we need statistics on body armour before the damage can be realistically defined.

[BloodBane611]

I don't understand your system jonny. Are those 'base' values going to replace the current damage values, or will they become part of a larger equation to calculate damage based on armor etc?

[Jonathan_Archer_nx01]

I have been able to hit marines on EJOD coming out of their main from the last flag above it. That's like 300, 400 meters minimum. Even with the iron sights I was able to hit targets at 200 meters. If you give the G3 time to settle then it becomes usable in my experience.

I tested it with SOFLAM, it's 330 meters or so.
2 your point, shooting targets running towards which are fully exposed is easy G3 as well as with any other scoped weapon. However soldiers who are not fully exposed, behind cover or simply lying on the ground = problem for G3.
When you are up against bad guys with G3s' you should alway find a good cover like this:




In this case G3 is very unlikely to hit the only part of body that is visible - head.
Maybe this is as it should be tho.
Marines in Fallujah 4:25

[BloodBane611]

Right now the system works as you said, base damage values x modifier = total damage

So you wouldn't change the system, just the values. I think that's reasonable, although your numbers don't do much tweaking to deal with the real problem, which is G3 power v. recoil.

[VipersGhost]

Large round + high velocity = big recoil + big damage

Its a powerful gun, it is about as deadly as some of the sniper rifles are. It should have similar recoil.

QFT

[BLUFOR-73]

jonathan a bit offtopic but is that bloom or just the low quality of the image?

[b_black69]

The G3 should do the same damage as the M14 IMO, since they are both the same caliber, and have similar barrel lengths. The G3 damage should be returned to its .6 level of 76.

[BloodBane611]

Jane's Recognition Guide: Guns[/u] 2005']G3 barrel length 450 mm
M14 barrel length 559 mm

So I'm going to disagree.

[PRC_Heavy_Z]

"L85: 36
M16: 35.7
AK47: 40.7
G3A3: 50
QBZ-95: 36.3
AK101: 35.5
M4: 35.1
QBZ95B: 32.4
SKS: 41.7
PKM: 51.1
M2: 106
M40: 51
M9: 25.2
QSZ-92: 22.9
GP25 Smoke: 42.9"


Johnny, I'm curious. Could you slightly elaborate a little regarding how you arrived at these numbers? did you add barrel length in as a variable along with muzzle velocity and mass? or how did the L85 have a different calculated damage value than the M16?