Let's follow TacticalGamer's example - make being in a squad mandatory!

[Ragni<RangersPL>]

;607898']is this a bug with PR or BF2? never seen it happen in TacticalGamer

I also haven't seen it on TacticalGamer, the last time I've seen it, was on Battlearena (Al bashra 24/7, insurgency). I didn't checked it after the server side patch was released so maybe it's gone (maybe).


BTW. Make up your mind.

;607898']I've never seen all squads being used and ALL squads were either full or locked.

;607898']I've only seen once and it didn't last very long.

[Masaq]

It's a BF2 bug, AFAIK/IIRC.

I've not seen it since 0.7b but I've not played on many servers other than the T&T server which is restarted regularly, which seems to help.

I *have* seen it *many* times on the TG server, back in 0.6.

[ReaperMAC]

People who don't join a squad are at a disadvantage as it is, if they don't want to, they shouldn't have too, but they don't reap the benefits of a squad. (Rally points, kits, teamwork, etc.)

[Artnez[US]]

BTW. Make up your mind.

Was typing faster than I was thinking, skipped a couple words. (Post is updated).

Please don't pick at my words.. this isn't the presidential election. You know what I'm trying to say even if I accidentally make a typo or skip a word because I type very fast.

[Death_dx]

[quote=""'Artnez[US"];607264']Are you kidding? How is it horrible?[/quote]
[quote="Death_dx""]
Not that I think the 90s thing is horrible[/quote]
Notice the Not negating the statement I think the 90s thing is horrible. Ultimately meaning I think that the 90 second squad kick is an ok idea.

;607262']The question is, why not?

It's hard enough to find a server where people are playing PR as it's meant to be played. Why do you think devs have restricted the release of the server files to servers who sign up? The server files aren't public because too many people were modding the servers to do stupid **** like 5 second spawn times.

Most servers that don't have mandatory squad joining have many players that aren't in a squad. Are you saying this is a good thing?

Why not force people to join squads? It would only promote the gameplay that PR is.

;607240']The only server that I play on is TacticalGamer...

So it's hard to find a server with people playing PR as it should be (which I might add it is based on your opinion of the game, despite you stating it as fact), but you only play on one server?

I don't see how you can claim to know that all servers play wrong, and that you only play on TG. I play on any server playing a good map, and the most I've ever seen in a non squad in the middle of a round is 3-5, maybe 8 if it was a map change. I've had good rounds on all the servers, within my ping range anyway.

The game is already made to encourage squadding, there isn't a need to force server admins to do something they don't want to. Secondly if all squads are full you'll end up forcing a noob to lead a squad which is worse than him soloing.

[Artnez[US]]

Notice the Not negating the statement I think the 90s thing is horrible. Ultimately meaning I think that the 90 second squad kick is an ok idea.

I missed that I guess... my bad. Has no relevance to the current argument though.

So it's hard to find a server with people playing PR as it should be (which I might add it is based on your opinion of the game, despite you stating it as fact), but you only play on one server?

I don't see how you can claim to know that all servers play wrong, and that you only play on TG. I play on any server playing a good map, and the most I've ever seen in a non squad in the middle of a round is 3-5, maybe 8 if it was a map change. I've had good rounds on all the servers, within my ping range anyway.

Yes, I only play on TG. Did I say that I have never played on any other server? No I did not. At this time, I only play on TG because that is the only server that I can get consistent teamplay on. Forcing people into squads is one of the reasons.

I've played on many others including TexasTeamPlayers, the 24/7 Insurgency server, and others in the USA. I'm not saying all rounds played on those servers are bad, but I find that often times there are no lone wolfers in TG server while all other servers at least have a few.

Most players are team players anyway, there's usually only a handful that are lone wolfing anyway. If it gets so bad that all squads will be full with lone wolfers leading all of them... there's more lone wolfers than team players... and thats even a bigger problem.

In any case, what harm can implementing this do? The only arguments I saw was full squads and being forced to play with lone wolfers and the squad bug. Another player attested that he hasn't seen the squad bug in TG at all (I haven't either). The full squad thing is just as unlikely as having an entire 32 player team of lone wolfers....

[Death_dx]

Squad bug is quite frequent on battlearena. Having all squads full or locked isn't very infrequent, I see it pretty often yesterday and today for example.

It should be considered that the majority of servers have no autojoin script and therefore either don't want it or don't care enough to get it.

[ArmedDrunk&Angry]

Mandatory squads will eliminate lonewolves.
If some guy wants to be a lonewolf, kick him from the squad and 90 seconds later he is booted from the game.
True he can create his own squad, but without the requisite number of people he won't have access to any kits and will become frustrated, then post in the forums how PR is going to fail because it doesn't suit his needs and soon after he will become a dim memory, just like all the others.
It is possible to get locked out and have the max # of squads reached but it is rare and typing to get an invite usually works if that is the case.

I was not a big fan of TGs rules( to say the least) back in .4 and .5 but I did come to realize that the rules do improve gameplay considerably and a strict admin benefits the majority of players.

If you want to snipe or ambush, you can still do this while in a squad, more so because you are hiding you can provide intel on enemy movements to your SL who can relay them to the CO who will alert other squads.
So even while sitting in a bush for 10 min waiting to trigger an IED you can contribute to the team.
If you are not in the mood for teamwork, play another game until the mood returns because 1 or 2 or even 5 lonewolves are manageable but when 50% of the team is not squadded up and the opposing team is, well........it is gonna be a real short game no matter how 1337 you think you may be.

[HughJass]

You are right HughJass, the mod is about teamwork. But the question was about forcing people to do it.

Teamplay comes from free will of players, not from PR core files.

well, then what is the point? I mean if not for squad play, why can you really achive for the team?

[Sabre_tooth_tigger]

The must be squaded rule means everyone is in the chain of command if there is a CO. On TG its also a sever rule that every SL and CO must hand out reasonable orders, hence the two rules hopefully put a more tactical game into play

[Template]

I don't see any reason to force squads. Squadless player is always in such disadvantage that there is very little reasons to not to join squad.

[Artnez[US]]

I don't see any reason to force squads. Squadless player is always in such disadvantage that there is very little reasons to not to join squad.

This isn't about giving the lone wolves a disadvantage, no one arguing that lone wolves don't get enough of a disadvantage.

The disadvantage occurs for the team. If the game is 32 vs 32 and the first team has 5 loners then it's really 27 vs 32 -- a disadvantage for the first team.

By forcing people to join in squads you are:

1) Cleaning out loners from the server.
2) Encouraging loners to play as a team.
3) Pushing new players into the squad play that is PR.

There is no disadvantage to forcing people in a squad. There is a disadvantage to allowing loners run free.

The only reasonable argument I have seen in this thread is people complaining that they don't want to play in a squad with loners. If the squad leader is a loner, create another squad. If the squad leader is a team player and one of the team members is a loner, kick the loner from the squad and if they don't get their act together they will eventually be kicked from the server for being squadless.

When loners make their own squads they gain no advantages because they have no squad members anyway. And if they do get other loner squad members then there's no difference between the way it is now.

Regarding loners creating one man squads and locking them - this can easily be prevented by not allowing squad lock if there is only one person in the squad. If you're waiting for friends and you created the squad then politely tell the squad members that aren't your friends that you are going to kick them because your friends are joining up. Once your first friend joins the squad, lock it.

[AnRK]

Its just pointless, the people not in a squad can STILL go lonewolf. Being in a squad does not automatically mean that poeple will play as a squad. You dont even need to be in a squad to play as a squad, you just need vent/ts.

How come the discussion didn't end here? I've seen lonewolfs do more good for a team then some of the guys forced into squads on TG. For example Taxis of various forms, and those lovely people that drive about in supply trucks doing nothing other then delivering supplies and helping people build stuff, although it's probably better if these people had squads but at least their helping their team.

I'd argue that forcing creates more trouble then anything else. Namely when people join your squad who are dicks and you have to continually kick them. Also if squads aren't forced, people also don't feel the need to join a clearly labelled INFANTRY/T-90 etc squad to get a sniper rifle, people do it anyway, but I've noticed it more on TG.

[fludblud]

so long as the squad bug exists this will forever be a stupid idea.

[kilroy0097]

The TG server requirements are important for the teamplay and rules that TG support. They are a guideline that I feel other teamwork based servers should probably follow. However I do not believe it is right for everyone. That is obvious from the many players that refuse to listen to orders. They need a place to play with others of like mind. They do not belong on the TG server nor would I want them there. So I for one support that it should not be a requirement but a choice. When someone is kicked and/or banned from a TG server I want them to go elsewhere and enjoy themselves. I just don't want non-teamwork minded players on the TG server.

[Kinote]

[quote=""Jonny"]Its just pointless, the people not in a squad can STILL go lonewolf. Being in a squad does not automatically mean that poeple will play as a squad. You dont even need to be in a squad to play as a squad, you just need vent/ts.[/quote]

[quote="AnRK""]How come the discussion didn't end here? I've seen lonewolfs do more good for a team then some of the guys forced into squads on TG. For example Taxis of various forms, and those lovely people that drive about in supply trucks doing nothing other then delivering supplies and helping people build stuff, although it's probably better if these people had squads but at least their helping their team.

I'd argue that forcing creates more trouble then anything else. Namely when people join your squad who are dicks and you have to continually kick them. Also if squads aren't forced, people also don't feel the need to join a clearly labelled INFANTRY/T-90 etc squad to get a sniper rifle, people do it anyway, but I've noticed it more on TG.[/quote]

What you two have said are some of the most logical arguments I have seen in this thread. Kudos to you, gentlemen, for being the sound voice of reason.

The process of joining a squad is not some mind altering chemical, dimensional portal, or vortex of awesome, that somehow transforms lone wolves into awesome team players. I have seen squads scattered all around the map, members not even within a three sector radius of each other. Why hassle everybody else in order to make these guys squad up and effectively do the same damned thing they would be doing anyways? These squads aren't even worth wasting the slot in the squad limit for and although actually reaching it is rare, it happens.

As for being unable to lock a squad with only one member, this one of the more craptacular ideas. If you're forcing everyone to squad up, I'd prefer not having to kick a few dozen people from my squad over, and over, and over, again while I wait for my friends to join up, get on my team, possibly even spawn, and then then join my squad.

[LordSquiffy]

I played on TG's server this week end and TBH , I joined (and was subsequently kicked) from 2 squads so while trying to find a squad that :
wasn't locked
wasn't aircraft
wasn't armor

This has happened to me too. Last week on TG I couldn't get into a squad for the same reason. I formed my own, called it "Spotter" and broadcast to the team that I was going to hide myself near enemy locations, use binos, and relay info to the team as a whole on the other sides movements. It worked really well.

My point being that sometimes its not possible to join a squad as they're all locked. I'm not always keen to form a squad as I'm not confident of my abilities as a SL where I would probably not lead properly and let my squad down.

I think there are valid arguments for both sides here, but even if I'm lonewolf, I still try to co-operate with squads as best I can.

[Tirak]

There's another reason why Squad or Kick shouldn't be implemented, and that's accidently hitting the change team button and finding yourself having to wait for more than the 90 secs before you can spawn again and join a squad, same deal if you accidently leave a squad, it happens.

[DDS]

I want to enable squadless kick on my server (TAW - The Art of Warfare). I was hoping someone would post instructions on how to do it. What I've found so far in the forums and the web don't work.

?

[fuzzhead]

Check the Gameserver admin forums, one of the stickies explains how to do it.