"Civilian" balance proposal...

[gclark03]

Can we penalize civilian kills the same way we penalize teamkills? The same global TK notification might be hard, but there needs to be some way for the guilty player to know immediately that a civilian has been shot.

[Ablack77]

A civie can be killed with impunity under the following circumstances:
...they are holding/throwing rocks
...they are actively using the binos
...they are actively using the wrench
...they are actively using the grappling hook.
...they are driving or riding in a vehicle
...they can be run over BY vehicles ("accidents" happen)
...they are on a ladder
...they are stabbed as in the current method of arrest

What? since when is it a crime or an act of war to hold/throw a rock???
since when is it a crime to use binoculars???
since when is it a crime to repair something???

ok so if people throw rocks they are not friendly but you think killing someone is an appropriate punishment?
Actually I've seen a few vids of convoys going through village areas and civi's are throwing rocks at trucks etc, at no time have I seen soldiers opening fire at people throwing rocks, yes they are pissed off but they don't start killing people.

It is possible that if you were a civi and you'd never seen a war in your neighborhood that you might pick up a pair of binoculars to look to see all the damage and maybe look to see if it was safe to try and leave the area or find a safer area.
Killing somebody for using a pair of binoculars is ridiculous.

If someone was helping an insurgent or an enemy soldier you would probably take them in for questioning (if the circumstances allowed it) and they would probably end up being charged with aiding the enemy.
You would NOT shoot to kill a civi with a wrench who you 'suspected' was helping the enemy, surely?

It's not until someone is holding/firing a gun and your fearing for your life that you start shooting at someone, well at least that's how I see it.
IRL (if I were a soldier) I wouldn't be shooting at people unless I feared for my life.

While you are trying to come up with some helpful suggestions for civi's I think your a little off base with regards to the above mentioned.



EDIT--> removed the "tongue in cheek" comments on the U.S. guys, sorry guys didn't mean to offend anyone.

[Ablack77]

Only joking Ghost - C'mon lighten up mate

[RCMoonPie]

What? since when is it a crime or an act of war to hold/throw a rock???
since when is it a crime to use binoculars???
since when is it a crime to repair something???

None of these things are an "act of war".
Its a "crime" to use binoculars in sight of an opposing force when they are also being attacked...it can easily be mistaken...and justified....that the binocular weilding person was spotting targets for the insurgents.
I dont think it would be hard to justify shooting someone who is actively repairing a vehicle that had a large caliber MG hanging out of the back that had just been killing and wounding my fellow troops.
Civilians should be acting a little more meek and avoiding the action...read the entire post and stop taking it out of context.

ok so if people throw rocks they are not friendly but you think killing someone is an appropriate punishment? (you must be an American)
Actually I've seen a few vids of convoys going through village areas and civi's are throwing rocks at trucks etc, at no time have I seen soldiers opening fire at people throwing rocks, yes they are pissed off but they don't start killing people.

Ive seen the videos too. And you are right. I included the rock throwing IN GAME....it is an act of violence IN GAME toward the Brits.

It is possible that if you were a civi and you'd never seen a war in your neighborhood that you might pick up a pair of binoculars to look to see all the damage and maybe look to see if it was safe to try and leave the area or find a safer area.
Killing somebody for using a pair of binoculars is ridiculous.
(once again you must be an American)

Its not rediculous for the reason listed above...its also common by every country I have had the privilege to work with and or study.

If someone was helping an insurgent or an enemy soldier you would probably take them in for questioning (if the circumstances allowed it) and they would probably end up being charged with aiding the enemy.
You would NOT shoot to kill a civi with a wrench who you 'suspected' was helping the enemy.
(Americans :roll

You are only half right here....it would depend on the situation......my answer above also explains the wrench question.

It's not until someone is holding/firing a gun and your fearing for your life that you start shooting at someone, well at least that's how I see it.
IRL (if I were a soldier) I wouldn't be shooting at people unless I feared for my life.

Once again.....I dont think you read my entire post.....and its obvious now.

While you are trying to come up with some helpful suggestions for civi's I think your a little off base with regards to the above mentioned.

(and please Americans, don't take the American stab too seriously - you gun freaks you)

You apologize and then you continue to make the insults?

Is anyone reading this?????

I recieved an infraction for this exchange....not a warning...but an infraction for pointing out the obvious......
https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f200-p ... post624987
And yet I have to put up with this anti-American bullshit????
I guess this is a "friendly and constructive" post, right [R-MOD]Dylan?

Please explain to me how this post is conducive to the atmosphere of this forum???

Ablack......just tell me.....where is it you are from that is so great?

The fact that we Americans give away billions in food alone and other foreign aid to countries goes unseen. But we move on another country that is being ravaged by an evil dictator and an insugency that is choking its own people, so we can hopefully instill some democracy and basic human rights and freedoms.......and the world hates we Americans.

[BloodBane611]

Thanks for the completely unnecessary country bashing. Back on topic:

It's not until someone is holding/firing a gun and your fearing for your life that you start shooting at someone, well at least that's how I see it.

In a combat zone you are basically aways going to be fearing for your life, unless you're just plain nuts.

[Masaq]

BB611 has the right idea - back on topic please.

[RCMoonPie]

Just a "back on topic...."

No warning or infraction????????????????????

This...
https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f200-p ... post624987
warrants an infraction......and he gets away with all out bashing my beliefs, Ideals, and Homeland....and he gets nothing????
My reason that I was given was this....
"Reason: Useless/Unhelpful Post Content
-------
Please keep your posts constructive and freindly. Their is no need to troll the forums with an elitest attitude. Every time someone brings up something related to being unhappy with the direction of the mod, you dont need to make them feel even more frustrated. For your disregard of forum rules, which include Tone, Useless/Unhelpful Post Content, Insulting Other Member(s) - Flaming, and a general Attitude Problem, you have been warned."

Then came this....
https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f200-p ... post625115

Which got this in return....
"You have received an infraction at Project Reality Forums.

Reason: Insulting Other Member(s) - Flaming-------
I have warned you for your previous post, as well as this one. I feel you need to have a long hard look at the rules if you like having the privilage to post. If you dont have anything constructive to post, then dont post at all.
-------

This infraction is worth 4 point(s) and may result in restricted access until it expires. Serious infractions will never expire."
*****
Neither post of what I said was insulting and merely pointed out the obvious. The second post suggested that If they disliked the "reality" of a reality mod....to find something else to do or suck it up.

But maybe its just me......maybe PR thinks it is okay to just insult someones heritage and home country.
No warning or infraction would suggest that PR condones it I guess?


This is slighted as phuck!
And its bullshit!

I guess if I were a "tea-drinker" everything would be pip pip cheerio right?

[KP]

If you think he's so bad for making an "Americans" joke, don't fall to his level and call Englishmen "tea-drinkers". And please, please, have some sense of humour. I'm sure you've done the same thing yourself. Plus, it wasn't a useless/unhelpful post, even if he made some quips in it.

Now, on topic: I agree civvie killing should be punished harder, especially if it was unprovoked. However, there's no coding situations, like civvies using binos to spot for RPG gunners, and thus there is no way of really determining ROEs.

[RCMoonPie]

My beef is that the Mods added the insult to injury by my getting an infraction for less....and he got a "stay on topic".
The claim they want a polite, friendly, and constructive atmosphere and yet they allow this?

Thumbs up!

[Masaq]

The correct way to take up disputes with moderation is to take it up with the moderator who issued the warning (in this case, Dylan) or with the Lead Moderator, A.J.Sawyer.

Rant posts about how unfairly you feel you've been treated will net you a further infraction, as they've done in this case.

[Wasteland]

ok so if people throw rocks they are not friendly but you think killing someone is an appropriate punishment? (you must be an American)
Actually I've seen a few vids of convoys going through village areas and civi's are throwing rocks at trucks etc, at no time have I seen soldiers opening fire at people throwing rocks, yes they are pissed off but they don't start killing people.

Depends. If you're dismounted and somebody's throwing some big rocks at you, and you can't leave your squad to run through hostile neighborhoods during a major offensive to tackle and arrest them, then yeah, shooting them might be an appropriate course of action.

It is possible that if you were a civi and you'd never seen a war in your neighborhood that you might pick up a pair of binoculars to look to see all the damage and maybe look to see if it was safe to try and leave the area or find a safer area.
Killing somebody for using a pair of binoculars is ridiculous.
(once again you must be an American)

Sure it's possible that some Iraqis are that retarded. But Darwin's a *****. During a major battle in a war where the enemies don't wear uniforms, a civilian spotting your troop's movements with binoculars is fair game. Or should the soldiers just hold fire since he *might* be a retard who wants to see him some war, and wait for the mortar strikes he's spotting for to fall on their heads?

If someone was helping an insurgent or an enemy soldier you would probably take them in for questioning (if the circumstances allowed it) and they would probably end up being charged with aiding the enemy.
You would NOT shoot to kill a civi with a wrench who you 'suspected' was helping the enemy.
(Americans :roll

As has been mentioned, it depends what he's repairing. But if you're in the middle of a major combat operation, with guns and RPGs and APCs firing everywhere, I don't think Achmed the legitimate civilian is going to be standing out on the street tinkering with his hotrod.

[KP]

Wasteland, the shining beacon of light for the ignorant, has spoken. Hail him, ye of little knowledge.

[Fess|3-5|]

I agree with the suggestions 100%. Only one of my own. What if instead of just "Wait and be quiet" or "Tell and Leave" you had an additional "Lie and hope". In that way, you'd have a 50/50 chance (numbers can be adjusted) of the British team "Believing" you. If they did believe you, a marker would appear in a location away from the cache, and you get to spawn in early as if you had told the truth. However, if they don't "believe" you, the timer gets reset, and an additional minute is added on.

Also, I agree that Binocs make you fair game. People who have been to the sandbox will tell you that if you were pointing optics at Coalition forces, and rounds started coming in, you're toast. One example that comes to mind is a civilian in his car who would flash his lights at Iraqi Mortar teams trying to zero in on an American unit. (Not Optics, but same principle. He wasn't holding a rifle, but still helping)

Another possible suggestion. What if the Civilian using his binocs had the ability to call in a mortar strike of just 1 to 2 shells? Obviously, it wouldn't be an instant thing, and the shells would have to be very innacurate, but they could pack about as much power as a Tanks HEAT shell.

[nathanator8811]

Only joking Ghost - C'mon lighten up mate

Why, yes.... of course you were, comrade. *mumbles to self "pay...capitalist...pigdogs...durgadurga..."