make 50.cals not laser weapons!

Gunwing · Post by **Gunwing** » 2008-03-24 20:18

I don't know about the rest of you but no vehicle mounted 50.cal works as great as they do in this game. I have been hit 12 times in the head by a tanks 50.cal MG at over 13000 yards. There is no way that can happen in real life.

You see 50.cal weapons in this mod lack something the real ones have recoil. I'm not saying they should have a bullet spread, but that they should have a bit of climb like the M16A4 dose. It would at least make tank commanders have to aim more, then the laser pin point **** the infantry have to deal with right now.

I know there is this massive resistance to making this kind of change on mounted weapons. But the infantry are at a major disadvantage right now on maps like Kashan because the tanks can hit them at any range with a 50.cal bullet.

Oh BTW no tank in the real world has a 50.cal, or a 12.7mm coax MG. They are all 7.62mm The Abrams has a 7.62mm coax in the turret, not a 50.cal, and so dose the T-90, as well as the T-55, and even the Type-99 is this way.

If we could add some type of small amount of recoil to the 50.cals in game the gameplay would be way more realistic. Your not a 50 gunner on a HMMWV because it's easy but because your rated to fire that weapon. Most real life soldiers will tell you that a 50.cal, or a 12.7mm weapon has a major amount of kick back.

gclark03 · Post by **gclark03** » 2008-03-24 20:22

Every coaxial MG in the game is 7.62mm NATO or Soviet, not .50 caliber.

If you mean the tank commander turret, it's very hard to 'snipe' with iron sights. I agree that deviation still needs tweaking, but nothing as dramatic as what you're suggesting.

Gunwing · Post by **Gunwing** » 2008-03-24 20:25

gclark03 wrote:Every coaxial MG in the game is 7.62mm NATO or Soviet, not .50 caliber.

If you mean the tank commander turret, it's very hard to 'snipe' with iron sights. I agree that deviation still needs tweaking, but nothing as dramatic as what you're suggesting.

yes I mean the cupla commander gun, but also the fact that the 7.62 coax weapons are also just as bad if not worse because they can hit targets at twice the range of any 7.62mm weapon in military service needs to be fixed as well.

charliegrs · Post by **charliegrs** » 2008-03-24 20:27

i would think that a gun thats mounted to a 70 ton monster like an abrams would be fairly stable...

M.0.D · Post by **M.0.D** » 2008-03-24 20:29

yeah and with modern firing systems you should be abled to snipe at nearly every distance that the weapon's bullet is still flying

Jester_Prince · Post by **Jester_Prince** » 2008-03-24 22:40

Do mounted weapons have muzzle climb? or even recoil...the weapons are pretty stable.

And they certainly arnt lazer accurate and they don't have iron sights to aim with either.

Besides, if a 50. cal is shooting at you don't pop your head up, don't move until its either reloading or someone else is distracting it.

50. cals are fine leave them as they are.

Post by **Airsoft** » 2008-03-24 22:47

dont the abrams have BOTH M240 and M2 .50 cal on the top IRL

$kelet0r · Post by **$kelet0r** » 2008-03-24 22:47

To the OP
Get a T90 on one side of the Bunker complex of Kashan and try to hit infantry on the opposite hill. It's not easy, there's a good deal of deviation kicking in at that range not to mention the bullet drop which kicks in as well
Sniper accurate they are not - but they are extremely effective

Warmagi · Post by **Warmagi** » 2008-03-24 22:53

Mounted weapons do have recoil, big kick back??????? REALLY???? Where did heard that?

Just stop bunny hopping, go prone, throw smoke and flank or completly go away, you are infantry, not a tank buster. PR - figure out yourself what the letters mean.

azn_chopsticks_boi · Post by **azn_chopsticks_boi** » 2008-03-24 22:57

Gunwing wrote:
Oh BTW no tank in the real world has a 50.cal, or a 12.7mm coax MG. They are all 7.62mm The Abrams has a 7.62mm coax in the turret, not a 50.cal, and so dose the T-90, as well as the T-55, and even the Type-99 is this way.

This has been suggested many tomes before, but it would need a new model since PR can not edit dice's models

BloodBane611 · Post by **BloodBane611** » 2008-03-24 23:02

Weapon mounts are generally designed to reduce the recoil of the weapon they mount. A tanks coaxial machine gun, coupled with the tank's targeting system, is able to engage a man size target at a very, very long range, somewhere near the maximum range of the weapon.

I've never fired a mounted .50 cal, but I don't think the current recoil is a real problem.

terenz · Post by **terenz** » 2008-03-25 05:17

Well, IRL its elligal to shoot directly at personal with 50cal guns, so already there, its kinda unrealistic. Might be too much to make a ticket loss on direct 50cal personal kills

gclark03 · Post by **gclark03** » 2008-03-25 06:07

Illegal? When you have armed forces larger than the next seven in the world combined, the largest effective arsenal of nuclear ICBMs on the planet, and an intelligence arm capable of overthrowing just about any country with the right funding, you'll find that there are very few with the gall to stand up to your breaking the law.

In summary, .50 cal weapons are fine; the point of war is to kill the enemy, so why not kill him well?

$kelet0r · Post by **$kelet0r** » 2008-03-25 11:24

terenz wrote:Well, IRL its elligal to shoot directly at personal with 50cal guns, so already there, its kinda unrealistic. Might be too much to make a ticket loss on direct 50cal personal kills

This is a myth

Sabre_tooth_tigger · Post by **Sabre_tooth_tigger** » 2008-03-25 11:57

50 cal is not half as effective as that scoped co axial. It does have bullet drop but not enough to make you miss that much

Hfett · Post by **Hfett** » 2008-03-25 12:27

Sabre_tooth_tigger wrote:50 cal is not half as effective as that scoped co axial. It does have bullet drop but not enough to make you miss that much

and what about a scoped .50?

Sabre_tooth_tigger · Post by **Sabre_tooth_tigger** » 2008-03-25 12:36

Apart from a sniper rifle we dont have any scoped 50 cals, that really would be deadly

The gun on the militia apc might be closest to that and I cant remember if its scoped in this version, probably not as its pretty dam ****

Theres no bullet drop on 50 cals afaik but you cant see that far while shooting with them anyway so its not a big deal whether they relate to real weaponry on a tank or not

Post by **LeadMagnet** » 2008-03-25 12:41

Speaking from experience in the game; it takes quite a few rounds to manage a kill with the coax at distance. It's more like spraying a garden hose into the air and walking the stream onto target.

Speaking from experience in the world; mounted weapons recoil is both absorbed by the mount and far more controllable. Initially there is some jump but that is easily correctable and normally doesn't take that long to get rounds on target.

Sabre_tooth_tigger · Post by **Sabre_tooth_tigger** » 2008-03-25 12:51

^^ Agreed

This video is pretty awesome, scope fitted .50 cal on a firing range with tracer rounds used to sight the target.

YouTube - .50 Cal M2 Browning 12.7mm

Post by **Outlawz7** » 2008-03-25 13:01

LeadMagnet wrote:Speaking from experience in the game; it takes quite a few rounds to manage a kill with the coax at distance. It's more like spraying a garden hose into the air and walking the stream onto target.

Speaking from experience in the world; mounted weapons recoil is both absorbed by the mount and far more controllable. Initially there is some jump but that is easily correctable and normally doesn't take that long to get rounds on target.

Coax+800m+180 ping=one happy ******* that lives (until I load HEAT)